GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

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While we wait, what is it exactly that SG does for a living?

He caters to 'high end athletes'.

What does that mean? I want to know exactly what he does (or did) for a living that he could pay in excess of $1,000 p.w. in rent. There doesn't seem to be any online advertising of his business/services or his career in general. No business associates or clients came forward as character referee's for SG. Why?
 
Jodie Speers ‏@jodiespeers 17m

Defence still talking... says the police didn't take certain steps to collect evidence that COULD have cleared Gittany

Oh, I wonder what that evidence could be? The dodgy hard drive in the ceiling perhaps? I just wish the police had found it because I feel sure that what it contained would have put him behind bars for life!
 
While we wait, what is it exactly that SG does for a living?

He caters to 'high end athletes'.

What does that mean? I want to know exactly what he does (or did) for a living that he could pay in excess of $1,000 p.w. in rent. There doesn't seem to be any online advertising of his business/services or his career in general. No business associates or clients came forward as character referee's for SG. Why?

Obviously quite a lucrative business to be able to pay in excess of $1000.oo per week on rent. Lisa wasn't working so the rent must have been coming out of his pocket.? I wonder if he paid tax?. imo

"(He said) he'd put a roof over her head, clothes on her back, she didn't have to work

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...before-her-death/story-fni0cx4q-1226745488098
 
Obviously quite a lucrative business to be able to pay in excess of $1000.oo per week on rent. Lisa wasn't working so the rent must have been coming out of his pocket.? I wonder if he paid tax?. imo

Good point! I could say a lot but I'll :shutup: :floorlaugh:
 
Obviously quite a lucrative business to be able to pay in excess of $1000.oo per week on rent. Lisa wasn't working so the rent must have been coming out of his pocket.? I wonder if he paid tax?. imo

Big bucks for a little man from Merrylands with a reputation of break, enter & steal & an appetite for a policemans ear.
 
Welcome to the forum montycooper! :seeya:


And I'm still wondering what a high-end caterer to athletes is ... and which athletes is he high-end catering to? Footballers, olympic athletes .. who?? :waitasec:

Honestly, my gut is substances, both legal an illegal.

Which would have been suppressed as being prejudicial to the case at hand - the relevance of which the prosecution would have had to fight hard to include.

What I'm curious about, in light of that, is - who determines the inclusion / exclusion in a judge only trial?

This might actually be advantageous in securing a conviction because it would be the judge deciding it was prejudicial, but regardless, she has heard it. Unlike a jury who would not hear it at all.

Pure speculation.
 
Hi All,

I attended the trial this morning at courthouse no.2 in Darlinghurst. The courthouse is of a depressing 1960s design with a loud air conditioner that makes hearing difficult when sitting upstairs. The two teams and the judge have folders and paperwork spread out in a very chaotic fashion over large tables and on trolleys. All in all, it seems very amateurish for a Supreme Court of NSW (what happened to law and "order"?).

Some press wait outside and primarily focus on SG's girlfriend. Other press are inside, taking notes. SG meanwhile is escorted into court via an underground stairway and stands in a semi-enclosed perspex box, divorced from the rest of the court. From here he can communicate with the defence team and can make eye contact with his family but he cannot leave the box. Throughout the morning he seemed very relaxed, smilingly at his family, making hand signals for them to call him and taking notes.

The judge is very impressive in my opinion. She corrected Mr Strickland on several occasions because some of his closing arguments were not supported by the submitted evidence. At one point Mr Strickland had to adjourn because the judge kept correcting him and he needed to get his facts straight. An interesting point he did make was that Mr Rathwell's statement was not submitted until 5 days after the incident. This was argued to be a long time for the police to take for evidence from a murder witness. Apart from that, it was mostly bickering over text messages and which ones should be submitted and which should be discarded.

I left at morning tea and had a look at the Hyde Apartment block from the street.

As I said, I have great confidence in the judge. If SG is not convicted then it will be because there is insufficient evidence.
 
Hi All,

I attended the trial this morning at courthouse no.2 in Darlinghurst. The courthouse is of a depressing 1960s design with a loud air conditioner that makes hearing difficult when sitting upstairs. The two teams and the judge have folders and paperwork spread out in a very chaotic fashion over large tables and on trolleys. All in all, it seems very amateurish for a Supreme Court of NSW (what happened to law and "order"?).

Some press wait outside and primarily focus on SG's girlfriend. Other press are inside, taking notes. SG meanwhile is escorted into court via an underground stairway and stands in a semi-enclosed perspex box, divorced from the rest of the court. From here he can communicate with the defence team and can make eye contact with his family but he cannot leave the box. Throughout the morning he seemed very relaxed, smilingly at his family, making hand signals for them to call him and taking notes.

The judge is very impressive in my opinion. She corrected Mr Strickland on several occasions because some of his closing arguments were not supported by the submitted evidence. At one point Mr Strickland had to adjourn because the judge kept correcting him and he needed to get his facts straight. An interesting point he did make was that Mr Rathwell's statement was not submitted until 5 days after the incident. This was argued to be a long time for the police to take for evidence from a murder witness. Apart from that, it was mostly bickering over text messages and which ones should be submitted and which should be discarded.

I left at morning tea and had a look at the Hyde Apartment block from the street.

As I said, I have great confidence in the judge. If SG is not convicted then it will be because there is insufficient evidence.

Thanks for this!!!!

I know I was wondering about the gaps in twitter. You filled in the blank spot for us!!!!

The more I think about it, the more I am certain that should SG be cleared of murder, there would be 5 minutes for him to gloat and celebrate and then a lovely pair of matching silver bracelets will be placed on his hands, and he will be arrested for aggravated assault(deprivation of liberty) kidnapping, stalking, harrassment and hopefully manslaughter too.

It was boggling my mind why they hadn't charged him with things they could absolutely prove. And I think this is the reason why
 
SouthAussie i am taking your advice and only thinking positive thoughts for Lisa and her family for a positive outcome. Although off topic I am heartened by the report that the DPP are challenging the 4 year sentence for Thomas K. 'S murder. Maybe there is justice out there.
 
Hi - This is my first post (contribution). Apologies if I'm repeating what has already been discussed. I did read an article (I am trying to locate it) that indicated that LCH was not a ballerina at all, but has been portrayed as such in the media and the reference has stuck. The article was part of some sort of case study in domestic violence and the media's influence with the use of specific headlines etc.. I think it was a Victorian University Case Study publication and it indicated that LCH had been portrayed as some sort of prima ballerina, but had only had an interest in ballet as a child. In fact, I do believe the defence had mentioned very early on that there were no fingerprints on the apartment balcony railing because she could have 'leaped' over it, given her ballet training and ability, but it seems that the defence have dropped that notion (for some reason) in recent weeks. Perhaps they realised that her title of 'ballerina' would have been disputed in court by her family ????
 
I've been thinking about Mr Rathwell's statement that he thought Lisa was luggage. So Lisa was possibly still when he saw her in SG's arms. I'm thinking that if I were being held in that fashion by someone in an agitated state, I'd freeze too & I certainly wouldn't be wriggling around, if I couldn't hang on to that person I'd be frozen hoping he was bluffing. For some reason Im feeling this may not have been the first time that poor little sweetheart was threatened with this before. A narcissist's mind would be saying 'see what YOU made me do?'.
 
I found Stricklands comment to the judge urging her to 'not be swayed by sympathy for Lisa's family', an odd thing to say. She is a high court judge for Gods sake. I highly doubt she bases her decisions on her emotions. It came across as condescending and I wonder if he would have made that comment if the judge in this case were a man?
 
Hi - This is my first post (contribution). Apologies if I'm repeating what has already been discussed. I did read an article (I am trying to locate it) that indicated that LCH was not a ballerina at all, but has been portrayed as such in the media and the reference has stuck. The article was part of some sort of case study in domestic violence and the media's influence with the use of specific headlines etc.. I think it was a Victorian University Case Study publication and it indicated that LCH had been portrayed as some sort of prima ballerina, but had only had an interest in ballet as a child. In fact, I do believe the defence had mentioned very early on that there were no fingerprints on the apartment balcony railing because she could have 'leaped' over it, given her ballet training and ability, but it seems that the defence have dropped that notion (for some reason) in recent weeks. Perhaps they realised that her title of 'ballerina' would have been disputed in court by her family ????

BBM - Hi JudgeJudy and welcome! :)

Here's the article I believe you are looking for. I know the case study you are speaking of. Not sure if the link is still posted here though.

Read more: Family unable to escape the nightmare of daughter's death plunge

March 31, 2012

"Mr Gittany's barrister, Robert Richter, QC, has previously told a Supreme Court bail hearing that Ms Harnum was a ''ballerina'', suggesting she could have leapt over the ledge, and subsequently to her death, ''quite easily''.

However, her family said while she took ''dancing lessons when she was younger, she was not a prima ballerina''. ''She just enjoyed the chance to dance and entertain, something she was passionate about from a young age,'' they said."
 
I found Stricklands comment to the judge urging her to 'not be swayed by sympathy for Lisa's family', an odd thing to say. She is a high court judge for Gods sake. I highly doubt she bases her decisions on her emotions. It came across as condescending and I wonder if he would have made that comment if the judge in this case were a man?

Ya know... The more I read about the Defenses comments, the more I see SG :jail:

..
 
BBM - Hi JudgeJudy and welcome! :)

Here's the article I believe you are looking for.

"[/I]

Hi JudgeJudy,

I know the article you are talking about and it has been posted but removed as it was an academic research article on 2 case studies of intimate partner violence and contained information that at that time was not allowed on this forum.

not sure if it is allowed now that the hearing part of the trial is over.
 
Ya know... The more I read about the Defenses comments, the more I see SG :jail:

..

Ditto ... I guess it is to be expected, a man with little or no respect for women will hire a lawyer with similar values.

It's like which doctor we choose, I'm not going to stay with one who doesn't think in a similar way to me in their health care approach.

I so admire Justice McCallum for continually pulling Strickland up when he was completely ignoring evidence and spouting BS in his closing argument. She didn't get to where she is by being intimidated by anyone, or letting incorrect points (and fairy tales) slip into testimony.

I wonder what she thought of SG's disrespectful behaviour in court ... relaxed, smiling, gesturing to his family, blowing kisses, 'reading' the bible while being questioned by the prosecutor.
 
Yes - EveD - You are right - There were 2 case studies in that article. The other case (as I recall) may have been a wife whose husband had driven her car into water ?? And, although her identity was withheld, there was enough in articles to possibly identify her due to her occupation. The whole point (of both articles) was to emphasise the media's influence on cases and their choice of words sometimes still had a 'blame the victim' mentality.
 
Welcome operationspirit, montycooper and all new sleuthers. :wagon:

Thank you operationspirit for your insight into this morning's proceedings. I had a bit of a giggle at the thought of Strickland having to adjourn because he couldn't get his facts straight. I would love to have seen the look on SG's face while this was happening. :floorlaugh:

Montycooper, I agree with you, Strickland's comments to Justice Lucy about not being swayed by sympathy for Lisa's family are disgusting and bordering on gender discrimination IMO. He has done nothing but victim-bash Lisa Harnum throughout this trial.

I wonder if Phillip Strickland has read the article about Justice Lucy McCallum at her swearing in ceremony, kindly posted by KG1. It seems clear that Justice McCallum is a very intelligent and switched on lady.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AUSTRALIA - Lisa Harnum, 30, Sydney - Simon Gittany on trial for murder


Oh and here's a lowdown on Phillip Strickland SC.

http://www.cvent.com/events/public-...stom-17-6c40f32533f74944908f5fa57e3beca7.aspx

Hi All,

I attended the trial this morning at courthouse no.2 in Darlinghurst. The courthouse is of a depressing 1960s design with a loud air conditioner that makes hearing difficult when sitting upstairs. The two teams and the judge have folders and paperwork spread out in a very chaotic fashion over large tables and on trolleys. All in all, it seems very amateurish for a Supreme Court of NSW (what happened to law and "order"?).

Some press wait outside and primarily focus on SG's girlfriend. Other press are inside, taking notes. SG meanwhile is escorted into court via an underground stairway and stands in a semi-enclosed perspex box, divorced from the rest of the court. From here he can communicate with the defence team and can make eye contact with his family but he cannot leave the box. Throughout the morning he seemed very relaxed, smilingly at his family, making hand signals for them to call him and taking notes.

The judge is very impressive in my opinion. She corrected Mr Strickland on several occasions because some of his closing arguments were not supported by the submitted evidence. At one point Mr Strickland had to adjourn because the judge kept correcting him and he needed to get his facts straight. An interesting point he did make was that Mr Rathwell's statement was not submitted until 5 days after the incident. This was argued to be a long time for the police to take for evidence from a murder witness. Apart from that, it was mostly bickering over text messages and which ones should be submitted and which should be discarded.

I left at morning tea and had a look at the Hyde Apartment block from the street.

As I said, I have great confidence in the judge. If SG is not convicted then it will be because there is insufficient evidence.


I found Stricklands comment to the judge urging her to 'not be swayed by sympathy for Lisa's family', an odd thing to say. She is a high court judge for Gods sake. I highly doubt she bases her decisions on her emotions. It came across as condescending and I wonder if he would have made that comment if the judge in this case were a man?
 
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