Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3

[sunnynz]

Hi, I would says it’s because we’re all in shock due to CV19??? My brain has been rendered useless right now.

I believe that Sally & ch7 team have a new podcast episode being released on Monday. Will be interesting to hear about any developments that have occurred since their last episode

Oh good on them! Impressive for them to carry on amongst the madness. Yes I’m finding it hard to have the brain space to focus on much at the moment. Not to mention less free time with schools closed and kids home all the time.

 

[Garyb]

Wondering what is going on with Websleuth. I got a request for donations to pay to keep there server open some weeks ago. So I donated a bit of money, but that was returned to me a few days later.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Episode 17 Baby Steps
17. Baby Steps

The reason for the GP visit at Grafton for whover used Marion's medicare card, was a rectal tumour.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Tha

Episode 17 Baby Steps
17. Baby Steps

The reason for the GP visit at Grafton for whover used Marion's medicare card, was a rectal tumour.

that is just so bizarre

 

[Loxoli]

Episode 17 Baby Steps
17. Baby Steps

The reason for the GP visit at Grafton for whover used Marion's medicare card, was a rectal tumour.

Hopefully investigators can track down any medical records or Medicare claims before and after Marion left for the UK to determine if she received a diagnosis for this prior. If so, that’s proof that it was Marion using the Medicare in Grafton and that she did return to Australia. If there was no prior diagnosis, we will still be unsure if it was her using the Medicare card.

Edit: Also, the podcast said the tumour was larger than 5cm. I don’t know a lot about it, but maybe that means she was more likely to have sought earlier treatement than if it was smaller?

 

[poppypopcorn]

Can any Australians briefly explain the Medicare system? (I'm in the UK and we don't have this sort of medical insurance). Would it have been possible, in theory, for Marion to be diagnosed with what sounds like a fairly advanced cancer, head off to the UK for one last hurrah, return to Aus, withdraw all her funds and pay for her treatment / palliative care privately, therefore keeping herself off the record? Obviously there would still be medical records, but not medical insurance records?

It would certainly explain liquidating her assets - medical treatment isn't cheap. But doesn't explain the other stuff like the name change. It's perhaps more likely that someone in the doctor's surgery mistranscribed a car number from another patient and it wasn't her at all.

 

[JLZ]

Can any Australians briefly explain the Medicare system? (I'm in the UK and we don't have this sort of medical insurance). Would it have been possible, in theory, for Marion to be diagnosed with what sounds like a fairly advanced cancer, head off to the UK for one last hurrah, return to Aus, withdraw all her funds and pay for her treatment / palliative care privately, therefore keeping herself off the record? Obviously there would still be medical records, but not medical insurance records?

It would certainly explain liquidating her assets - medical treatment isn't cheap. But doesn't explain the other stuff like the name change. It's perhaps more likely that someone in the doctor's surgery mistranscribed a car number from another patient and it wasn't her at all.

I think treatment in a private hospital wouldn't be covered by Medicare anyway. One would assume at least some treatment before or after the admission, and I think it's possible she elected to pay privately; the doctors would probably want to see her Medicare card as a backup, but provided she paid in full they would have no need to make a claim. The doctors would tend to assume that the patient would claim partial reimbursement afterwards from Medicare, but there's nothing to force the patient to do so.

However, I wonder if Marion opted for 'alternative' treatment, expected that the family would be against this and decided to avoid conflict by not telling them until after she had recovered, and this was the reason for the identity change etc. Then she didn't recover.

Yes it could have happened that another patient's treatment was processed as Marion's by mistake. I worked in a related field back then, those mistakes got made.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I think treatment in a private hospital wouldn't be covered by Medicare anyway. One would assume at least some treatment before or after the admission, and I think it's possible she elected to pay privately; the doctors would probably want to see her Medicare card as a backup, but provided she paid in full they would have no need to make a claim. The doctors would tend to assume that the patient would claim partial reimbursement afterwards from Medicare, but there's nothing to force the patient to do so.

However, I wonder if Marion opted for 'alternative' treatment, expected that the family would be against this and decided to avoid conflict by not telling them until after she had recovered, and this was the reason for the identity change etc. Then she didn't recover.

Yes it could have happened that another patient's treatment was processed as Marion's by mistake. I worked in a related field back then, those mistakes got made.

Turns out they had it wrong, they don’t know what the appointment was for when the Medicare card was used after she returned to Australia. She did see the Dr before she left and had a colonoscopy but forget the cancer reference they had that wrong. Full details on their Facebook page

 

[Seriallyaddicted]

Turns out they had it wrong, they don’t know what the appointment was for when the Medicare card was used after she returned to Australia. She did see the Dr before she left and had a colonoscopy but forget the cancer reference they had that wrong. Full details on their Facebook page

How do they get something like that wrong? I saw that post on facebook. It’s just ridiculous. Details about a tumour and then they say oh we got it wrong. Something not quite right there....

 

[bje111]

How do they get something like that wrong? I saw that post on facebook. It’s just ridiculous. Details about a tumour and then they say oh we got it wrong. Something not quite right there....

Agree - very strange!

 

[JLZ]

How do they get something like that wrong? I saw that post on facebook. It’s just ridiculous. Details about a tumour and then they say oh we got it wrong. Something not quite right there....

It sounds like they only have the procedure and/or test codes--if Medicare codes, 5-digit numbers, but you can look up the meaning online. So they would know that Marion had a colonoscopy and apparently gastroscopy with biopsy but they wouldn't know why those were ordered or what the outcome was. Perhaps someone tried to explain it to them with examples and they took an example to be the fact. Perhaps they did a little bit of research and it was a case of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

 

[JLZ]

Turns out they had it wrong, they don’t know what the appointment was for when the Medicare card was used after she returned to Australia. She did see the Dr before she left and had a colonoscopy but forget the cancer reference they had that wrong. Full details on their Facebook page

A colonoscopy wouldn't have been done by a GP. The GP would have referred her to a gastroenterologist and it would have been a hospital day admission or possibly an overnight stay. Could Marion have developed complications after the procedure and decided to return to Australia hopefully briefly for follow-up treatment? Which might not have been separately billable by the gastroenterologist as basic follow-up is often included in the original procedure fee.

 

[limnody]

What happened to the magazine from Los Angeles? Not even a mention in the latest podcast or did I miss it?

 

[poppypopcorn]

Well the incorrect medical info throws my theory out the window. A minor colonoscopy is a lot different from a large tumour.

 

[JLZ]

Well the incorrect medical info throws my theory out the window. A minor colonoscopy is a lot different from a large tumour.

A colonoscopy could include removal of polyps. I'm not sure whether the doctor would know from inspection whether the polyps showed cancerous development, or whether they'd have to be examined histologically.

I think the retraction said that they had no evidence that Marion had a serious medical condition. They didn't say they had evidence that the colonoscopy result was all clear? They may not know the outcome?

 

[Housemartyn]

I am really frustrated and confused by the latest episode.

I heard the original version which they almost immediately replaced.

How could they upload an episode with specific medical details and a specific theory by Alison - and then retract it - as if nothing had happened. No real explanation as to why they they 'made a mistake'! Honestly I was gobsmacked - and suspicious.
We know Marion had a colonoscopy before she left - and she had a biopsy taken - which means the professionals WERE investigating something. And Alison stated she had a 5cm recatal tumour - which is huge! And then she says maybe this is why Marion wanted to run away etc she may have wanted to keep it a secret from her family! The next thing stated is that it was a mistake! Marion didn't have any health concerns and she just had a colonoscopy.!
She must have had a colonoscopy and a biopsy for a reason I'm thinking! !!
To me now - it makes perfect sense. She ran away, came back and hid away from her family and died in secret. Hence all the redacted stuff on the file. They haven't answered my questions on the Facebook page.
Any thoughts??

 

[KiwiNZ]

I am really frustrated and confused by the latest episode.

I heard the original version which they almost immediately replaced.

How could they upload an episode with specific medical details and a specific theory by Alison - and then retract it - as if nothing had happened. No real explanation as to why they they 'made a mistake'! Honestly I was gobsmacked - and suspicious.
We know Marion had a colonoscopy before she left - and she had a biopsy taken - which means the professionals WERE investigating something. And Alison stated she had a 5cm recatal tumour - which is huge! And then she says maybe this is why Marion wanted to run away etc she may have wanted to keep it a secret from her family! The next thing stated is that it was a mistake! Marion didn't have any health concerns and she just had a colonoscopy.!
She must have had a colonoscopy and a biopsy for a reason I'm thinking! !!
To me now - it makes perfect sense. She ran away, came back and hid away from her family and died in secret. Hence all the redacted stuff on the file. They haven't answered my questions on the Facebook page.
Any thoughts??

having a biopsy is very common with colonoscopies without a diagnosis of cancer. Generally the result is non- cancerous polyps. I don't know the time lapse between the original colonoscopies and the appointment at the center after she returned but I think its only months and I think had it of been that advanced it would have been dealt with straight away after the original appointment. I personal don't agree with Alison's statement that she came home to die in secret as how do you account for the money been removed from the bank in the way it was ? If she died in a hospital there would be a record of the death either under Marion or Florabella, if she died at home / motel her possessions like passport would have identified her, or there would have at least been a write up in the paper and record with police of an unidentified person dying.

But like you I am astounded that they made this mistake and also managed to give such detail of the size of the tumor and then retract the information as incorrect without any detail as to why ? Terrible investigative journalism

 

[Garyb]

having a biopsy is very common with colonoscopies without a diagnosis of cancer. Generally the result is non- cancerous polyps. I don't know the time lapse between the original colonoscopies and the appointment at the center after she returned but I think its only months and I think had it of been that advanced it would have been dealt with straight away after the original appointment. I personal don't agree with Alison's statement that she came home to die in secret as how do you account for the money been removed from the bank in the way it was ? If she died in a hospital there would be a record of the death either under Marion or Florabella, if she died at home / motel her possessions like passport would have identified her, or there would have at least been a write up in the paper and record with police of an unidentified person dying.

But like you I am astounded that they made this mistake and also managed to give such detail of the size of the tumor and then retract the information as incorrect without any detail as to why ? Terrible investigative journalism

Perhaps they let slip something the new police investigation had told Sally in confidence.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Perhaps they let slip something the new police investigation had told Sally in confidence.

good point. It's kind of not something you get wrong, when your that specific there has no be some ring of truth to it, but I can't fit it into the already confusing picture. You think a bit more information would help you pull the pieces together but in this case it just makes it even more confusing

 

[Housemartyn]

Thank you for feedback!

I am aware that most colonoscopies and biopsies do not lead to a diagnosis of cancer - but some definitely do! And if the diagnosis was advanced cancer which most likely the scenario with a 5cm tumour would be - maybe Marion didn't want treatment - most likely a colostomy and chemotherapy. Maybe Marion thought her family would object to her choice.
I think she sold up and looked to be doing something she always had wanted to do with the limited time she had left. But she didn't have as long as originally estimated so she came back - booked into a hospice - gave them instructions as to what to do with her money/belongings and remains and that was it unfortunately.
I think Alison did let something big slip which wasn't supposed to be revealed, as already suggested.
I don't know about her withdrawing the money - but the bank identified her and said she wanted nothing more to do with the family. There was a reason why she did it that way - but I can't think of one.