Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #14

[mishy66]

Something about this name and fraud! What is it about connections - don't name your kid Freddy David

£14million conman Freddy David out of jail after serving half six-year sentence

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Sure, but there's no solid proof putting them together in Australia either.
No one's ever positively identified them together, anywhere

Sally and her husband did, from afar in the parking lot of McD's. I'm happy to accept that as 'proof' as it fits completely.

 

[BonnieB]

Something about this name and fraud! What is it about connections - don't name your kid Freddy David

£14million conman Freddy David out of jail after serving half six-year sentence

Lol, I saw this too. My heart started beating faster, then I read his age. You're right about the name though, we should test it using Acrophonology!

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

That isn't actually true what he says about the post office cutting up the old passport. An artist friend I know has numerous old passports from people they don't know to use as a base for projects - it is very common amongst artists to use ephemera like this in their work. All completely legal and above board.

And then there is this for crooks:Passports on the dark web: how much is yours worth? - Comparitech

To clarify, the point I was working towards is that RB uses multiple simultaneous identities. I hypothesise:

He builds up and scaffolds sufficient documents to utilise different identities for different purposes and he goes by different names and characters in different places.

I don't know what they do in Aus (or other European countries he visits) with replacement passports or issuing 'change of name' passports - maybe some forum members can illuminate?

Speaking as to the UK, currently, when one's passport expires and a new one issued, the top corner cover is clipped off by the Passport Office. I assume, here in UK, same process for an alteration of name.

However, RB, both changes and amends his name -and- states he has lost the previous issued passports. By doing so, he is able to simultaneously hold multiple passports, all valid, insofar as they have not expired, all his photo (not doctored) but in different names.

We need to look here at what FRAUDS - CONS - SCAMS - IDENTITY THEFT can be perpetrated by holding a passport, drivers licence, bank cards. We know he steals people's documents, paperwork, and wallets.

How do we know he doesn't have multiple simultaneous and valid passports and identities in other European countries?

JMO MOO

 

[KathPlumber]

First time poster, LONG time fan of everyone’s research. You are all such an impressive and dedicated bunch.

1. I’m struggling to remember if travelers cheques have ever been discussed here in relation to this case. My family travelled quite a lot to the UK in the late 90s/early 2000s and we always used travellers cheques (in addition to any cash, and cards with the Cirrus/Maestro symbol at ATMs). I wonder if travellers cheques had our full names on them or just initials? I can’t remember …

2. I once had to go to the passport office for an emergency last minute passport. They took my 2 most recent passports and cut a slice off the side of the covers, so it was no longer able to look like a normal functioning passport, but the majority of the passport remained intact.

3. Is there any proof (other than her own words) that Marion actually hired a car? In that era, Australians were eligible for an amazing thing called a Brit Rail pass. It was a prepaid thing that had to be purchased in Australia. It enabled us to travel on any train line in the UK without having to book in advance or pay anything extra. You just paid for a certain number of days, like it was maybe $500 AUD for 4 or 6 days of travel which, once you factored in the possible length of a train trip, need to change lines, price markups for certain timing and seasons and the general over expense of British rail services was an amazingly good deal. Often conductors didn’t really understand how they worked and wouldn’t tick them off so I ended up with loads of days of free travel and could even leave them behind with UK friends to use if there were days left. Technically they required the use or an Australian passport to make them valid but again, no one ever checked.

i used this pass to travel to many of the same places Marion did! Alfriston, Tonbridge and so on. Even tiny towns are well serviced by the rail system or were back then.

4. My partner recently hired cars in the USA with a different name on passport and drivers license. We were told that as both had photos on them, and were clearly of the same person, it would be fine as names often change after marriage etc and not all documents instantly catch up.

all of the just are just thoughts and observations of a mostly random nature - just trying to fill in some details about Aussies abroad and the experiences of that time.

 

[Penguinpoet]

I also believe travelling through various villages and towns (often rural) across South East England that are unfamiliar to the victim in such a short period of time is to disorientate them in some way too.

He is also close to airport and ferry transport links to mainland Europe to help aid his ‘escape’ back to Australia.

I was thinking about this too. It would be even more disorienting if he took JO and MB to a country in Europe where they can't speak the language, where they might have difficulty trying to book a return flight to Australia (or even trying to speak to police), which makes me think there is a very specific reason for choosing England (although I don't know what that is!).

 

[BonnieB]

To clarify, the point I was working towards is that RB uses multiple simultaneous identities. I hypothesise:

He builds up and scaffolds sufficient documents to utilise different identities for different purposes and he goes by different names and characters in different places.

I don't know what they do in Aus (or other European countries he visits) with replacement passports or issuing 'change of name' passports - maybe some forum members can illuminate?

Speaking as to the UK, currently, when one's passport expires and a new one issued, the top corner cover is clipped off by the Passport Office. I assume, here in UK, same process for an alteration of name.

However, RB, both changes and amends his name -and- states he has lost the previous issued passports. By doing so, he is able to simultaneously hold multiple passports, all valid, insofar as they have not expired, all his photo (not doctored) but in different names.

We need to look here at what FRAUDS - CONS - SCAMS - IDENTITY THEFT can be perpetrated by holding a passport, drivers licence, bank cards. We know he steals people's documents, paperwork, and wallets.

How do we know he doesn't have multiple simultaneous and valid passports and identities in other European countries?

JMO MOO

I agree with all of the above, then add to that, the fact that he's wanted in Belgium and France, possibly Luxembourg and you have more reasons he changes passports so frequently. We also know that in addition to legal name changes, he used aliases as well. He definitely knows how to work the system by evading scrutiny at borders, always landing in Amsterdam where he's not wanted and catching ferries etc - he's had years of experience!

 

[BonnieB]

First time poster, LONG time fan of everyone’s research. You are all such an impressive and dedicated bunch.

1. I’m struggling to remember if travelers cheques have ever been discussed here in relation to this case. My family travelled quite a lot to the UK in the late 90s/early 2000s and we always used travellers cheques (in addition to any cash, and cards with the Cirrus/Maestro symbol at ATMs). I wonder if travellers cheques had our full names on them or just initials? I can’t remember …

2. I once had to go to the passport office for an emergency last minute passport. They took my 2 most recent passports and cut a slice off the side of the covers, so it was no longer able to look like a normal functioning passport, but the majority of the passport remained intact.

3. Is there any proof (other than her own words) that Marion actually hired a car? In that era, Australians were eligible for an amazing thing called a Brit Rail pass. It was a prepaid thing that had to be purchased in Australia. It enabled us to travel on any train line in the UK without having to book in advance or pay anything extra. You just paid for a certain number of days, like it was maybe $500 AUD for 4 or 6 days of travel which, once you factored in the possible length of a train trip, need to change lines, price markups for certain timing and seasons and the general over expense of British rail services was an amazingly good deal. Often conductors didn’t really understand how they worked and wouldn’t tick them off so I ended up with loads of days of free travel and could even leave them behind with UK friends to use if there were days left. Technically they required the use or an Australian passport to make them valid but again, no one ever checked.

i used this pass to travel to many of the same places Marion did! Alfriston, Tonbridge and so on. Even tiny towns are well serviced by the rail system or were back then.

4. My partner recently hired cars in the USA with a different name on passport and drivers license. We were told that as both had photos on them, and were clearly of the same person, it would be fine as names often change after marriage etc and not all documents instantly catch up.

all of the just are just thoughts and observations of a mostly random nature - just trying to fill in some details about Aussies abroad and the experiences of that time.

Welcome @KathPlumber and thank you for your travel insights

 

[Penguinpoet]

Interestingly I have just been listening to another podcast from "The Prosecutors" series: Episode 126 The Riddle of Lori Ruff. The second half of the episode is fascinating as it talks about a book published in America in 1971 by Eden Press called "The Paper Trip". It was basically a manual for how to create a new identity! I'm not suggesting that WW read it, and of course it focuses on how to change identity in America. But what stood out to me is how someone could get hold of a copy of a birth certificate (of someone who had died) then apply for an id in that name across state lines, then use that to get a new identity.
I'm amazed there's a book with loopholes and tips on how to do this (and it's still published today)!

 

[BonnieB]

Interestingly I have just been listening to another podcast from "The Prosecutors" series: Episode 126 The Riddle of Lori Ruff. The second half of the episode is fascinating as it talks about a book published in America in 1971 by Eden Press called "The Paper Trip". It was basically a manual for how to create a new identity! I'm not suggesting that WW read it, and of course it focuses on how to change identity in America. But what stood out to me is how someone could get hold of a copy of a birth certificate (of someone who had died) then apply for an id in that name across state lines, then use that to get a new identity.
I'm amazed there's a book with loopholes and tips on how to do this (and it's still published today)!

Bet it was on his bookshelf at some stage

 

[Penguinpoet]

Bet it was on his bookshelf at some stage

Nothing would surprise me I was quite taken by the publication date...1971!

 

[BonnieB]

Nothing would surprise me I was quite taken by the publication date...1971!

Yes, and they called at a couple of ports in USA in 71 too. Just some "didactic material" to peruse as he sat on his deck chair in the sun.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Bet it was on his bookshelf at some stage

I think he *wrote* the book LOL

 

[KathPlumber]

Have any of the UK-based sleuths investigated the church signing books for the towns Marion is thought to have visited? A lot of these towns have historically significant churches and I remember often signing visitors books in them (St Andrews Alfriston in particular sticks in my mind, very cool medieval history). I assume the Parish would keep the books? I just would love any other kind of evidence of a place in England that she was in on a specific day - especially given the question mark over the location of her final phone call. I also keep thinking that someone over there must remember her, surely. She would have been such a bright and chatty presence.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Regarding Marion hiring a car.

It's doubtful she'd have been able to hire one in the UK if her Passport + Drivers Licence + Bank Card did not all match in terms of name.

I believe she did hire a car as her postcard descriptions of being brave to drive and also (IIRC) needing to put some of her stuff in storage instead of trying to fit in a small car seem authentic.

However, I wonder, is THIS when maybe RB was together with her? Did he hire the car in his name and they took turns to drive it? Or she drove? Did he encourage her to store her belongings instead of stuffing them in the small car?

At the point of needing / wanting to hire a car would be a great time for him to scope out her documents and card all together and even perhaps dispossess her of them.

 

[Penguinpoet]

I feel the date on the card could be something as simple as the post box not been emptied, or left at a hotel / B&B reception for them to post, they just forgot etc...

I am in the came back camp, because of the handwriting on the card and also I think the podcast The prosecutors summed it up in a way I found most believable and logical. But happy to be convinced otherwise

I am hooked on that podcast The Prosecutors now, love them lol

JMO

That was my thought too about the date on a postcard. A reception at a hotel/guest house could very well offer to post a postcard on behalf of a guest (I've done it myself when traveling) and it can then easily be delayed as it's not their top priority.

I'm also addicted to The Prosecutors now and have been working my way through their back catalogue!

 

[Penguinpoet]

I feel the date on the card could be something as simple as the post box not been emptied, or left at a hotel / B&B reception for them to post, they just forgot etc...

I am in the came back camp, because of the handwriting on the card and also I think the podcast The prosecutors summed it up in a way I found most believable and logical. But happy to be convinced otherwise

I am hooked on that podcast The Prosecutors now, love them lol

JMO

Also it's not unheard of for there to be postal strikes here in England...I wonder if there was one around that time in Sussex/Kent... I'll do some googling.
I guess ultimately the discrepancy between the postmark and the date she allegedly arrived back in Australia doesn't persuade me that someone else traveled on her passport.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Regarding Marion hiring a car.

It's doubtful she'd have been able to hire one in the UK if her Passport + Drivers Licence + Bank Card did not all match in terms of name.

I believe she did hire a car as her postcard descriptions of being brave to drive and also (IIRC) needing to put some of her stuff in storage instead of trying to fit in a small car seem authentic.

However, I wonder, is THIS when maybe RB was together with her? Did he hire the car in his name and they took turns to drive it? Or she drove? Did he encourage her to store her belongings instead of stuffing them in the small car?

At the point of needing / wanting to hire a car would be a great time for him to scope out her documents and card all together and even perhaps dispossess her of them.

I was thinking did she claim her MB passport was lost when she applied for a new FB one, therefore she had her old passport which would be no good for flying but could still be used as identification, then she would have had enough ID to hire a car.

Although if I remember correctly the police couldn't even find a current DL in MB's name, which I don't believe is correct, I don't think Marion would drive a car unlicensed, and if they couldn't find that what's the chance they missed a Florabella one. They missed RB's Remakel one that was still valid in 1997, which astounds me.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Agree 100%. All just another made up bashing that he seems to use when he has valuables that he is wanting to hide.

That bashing in the Pacific Fair car park, looks like he needed to hide something from his wife. She must have known about that particular amount of money

I still don't know who much money it was ? 50K Aus (?) I got totally lost with his conversions lol, why travel to Pacific Fair to exchange the money the was the same company with branches closer to his home.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Sure, but there's no solid proof putting them together in Australia either.
No one's ever positively identified them together, anywhere

I think a good clue, not set in concrete of course, but the tall man seen in the car with Marion. We heard that the man in the car was taking Marion out before she went overseas. So, why was he sitting in the passenger seat if he's taking her out? That's something that's never made sense. Now we know RB is virtually always in the passenger seat, jumping off buses, trams, etc, and getting in the passenger seat ....