Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #6

[KiwiNZ]

[QUOTE=" .

Lets face it LE have nothing on him or any proof he was involved with her beyond a certain point

[/QUOTE]

Are we sure they have nothing on him ?

He has admitted to placing the ad, knowing Marion etc... but cant remember having a ADVO taken out on him or responding to it, or been at GM houses.

I don't think he would admit to anything if they have no proof

If they only had proof he placed the ad then you would say you placed the ad but dont have a clue who Marion Barter is. Why implicate himself if they have no proof ?

I think they have plenty of proof IMO. either that or he is a really dumb criminal lol

 

[DK007]

His mother remained in Belgium right? Perhaps there was/is still a family home..? Maybe siblings living there still?

Is there an address for his mother/family home in Belgium ?

 

[DK007]

[QUOTE=" .

Lets face it LE have nothing on him or any proof he was involved with her beyond a certain point

Are we sure they have nothing on him ?

He has admitted to placing the ad, knowing Marion etc... but cant remember having a ADVO taken out on him or responding to it, or been at GM houses.

I don't think he would admit to anything if they have no proof

If they only had proof he placed the ad then you would say you placed the ad but dont have a clue who Marion Barter is. Why implicate himself if they have no proof ?

I think they have plenty of proof IMO. either that or he is a really dumb criminal lol[/QUOTE]

Most criminals IMO are dumb as eventually they slip up. It’s only a matter of time before this person does and hopefully it may come sooner than later

 

[DK007]

[QUOTE=" .

Lets face it LE have nothing on him or any proof he was involved with her beyond a certain point

Are we sure they have nothing on him ?

He has admitted to placing the ad, knowing Marion etc... but cant remember having a ADVO taken out on him or responding to it, or been at GM houses.

I don't think he would admit to anything if they have no proof

If they only had proof he placed the ad then you would say you placed the ad but dont have a clue who Marion Barter is. Why implicate himself if they have no proof ?

I think they have plenty of proof IMO. either that or he is a really dumb criminal lol[/QUOTE]

Most criminals IMO are dumb as eventually they slip up. It’s only a matter of time before this person does and hopefully it may come sooner than later

 

[KiwiNZ]

I would love to know what info Sally has on the missing paintings. I recall in one of the podcast episodes she said she believed Marion owned, and put into storage, a painting by each of Arthur Boyd, Jamie Boyd and Norman Lindsay, all very well known artists. I wonder if anyone has looked into finding the current owners of the paintings, or listing them on stolen art databases.

Sally has been in contact with Jamie Boyd if I remember correctly but these were prints and no real record was kept, not originals. Someone correct me if I am wrong

 

[KittensAugustus]

Regarding the bank teller remembering Marion- it was much smaller location in the 90s and if someone was coming in every day you would definitely start to remember them.

 

[DK007]

Regarding the bank teller remembering Marion- it was much smaller location in the 90s and if someone was coming in every day you would definitely start to remember them.

I assume this would be the case if your a longtime local, Marion may not have resided there for a long enough time to become that friendly with the bank teller? I wonder if said person had any private relations to some of the employees of that bank ?

 

[centred]

[QUOTE=" .

Lets face it LE have nothing on him or any proof he was involved with her beyond a certain point

Are we sure they have nothing on him ?

He has admitted to placing the ad, knowing Marion etc... but cant remember having a ADVO taken out on him or responding to it, or been at GM houses.

I don't think he would admit to anything if they have no proof

If they only had proof he placed the ad then you would say you placed the ad but dont have a clue who Marion Barter is. Why implicate himself if they have no proof ?

I think they have plenty of proof IMO. either that or he is a really dumb criminal lol[/QUOTE]

Plenty of proof of what ? They have no proof he had any knowledge of her after she returned and that is the sticking point , he denies it and has admitted the other interactions so what can they charge him with ? at the maximum would be any possession of her property if indeed any has been found but she may have given it to him , and they cannot prove she did not .

What have they got on him they can prove ? Do you know of any ? I maybe wrong .

They are trying to find out what happened to her , if she is alive or still living , missing or had intent to go missing , there is no suggestion or evidence a crime has been committed by him against her .IMO

 

[DK007]

This is a large scale con said person did and has attempted to pull off over many decades. I find it almost impossible to believe that said person has managed to keep it to himself for this long without telling someone or others possibly being involved on some level ! Perhaps said person was grooming multiple people at once to pull off his con artist schemes from the innocent victims he stole from to people in financial services positions ? Just my opinion.

 

[DK007]

Are we sure they have nothing on him ?

He has admitted to placing the ad, knowing Marion etc... but cant remember having a ADVO taken out on him or responding to it, or been at GM houses.

I don't think he would admit to anything if they have no proof

If they only had proof he placed the ad then you would say you placed the ad but dont have a clue who Marion Barter is. Why implicate himself if they have no proof ?

I think they have plenty of proof IMO. either that or he is a really dumb criminal lol

Plenty of proof of what ? They have no proof he had any knowledge of her after she returned and that is the sticking point , he denies it and has admitted the other interactions so what can they charge him with ? at the maximum would be any possession of her property if indeed any has been found but she may have given it to him , and they cannot prove she did not .

What have they got on him they can prove ? Do you know of any ? I maybe wrong .

They are trying to find out what happened to her , if she is alive or still living , missing or had intent to go missing , there is no suggestion or evidence a crime has been committed by him against her .IMO[/QUOTE]

There might not be any proof he committed any crime against Marion as yet as nothing has been released but it’s not to say that something won’t come up to confirm this at the upcoming inquest ?

 

[Estelle]

I assume this would be the case if your a longtime local, Marion may not have resided there for a long enough time to become that friendly with the bank teller? I wonder if said person had any private relations to some of the employees of that bank ?

We don't know the exact date of when the transactions first took place at this bank? There seem to have been two banks in a shopping mall at the time - the Commonwealth and the Colonial (a much smaller bank) which later became the Commonwealth Bank from what I remember.

Maybe RB took his time to groom this teller (I think she was a female) with a convincing story, offered her money, took her out for lunch, they had mutual friends, etc. Then he introduced "Marion" (his wife or someone else posing as Marion) to this teller so she could withdraw the money. Maybe no ID was checked then or maybe it was and it looked OK. How often would Marion have driven from Southport to Ballina to this bank before her trip? It's a two hour drive! She had been away for a month or so too.

I smell a rat with this.

 

[Estelle]

Regarding the bank teller remembering Marion- it was much smaller location in the 90s and if someone was coming in every day you would definitely start to remember them.

But the ID-ing would have been done on the first day "Marion" allegedly came in to make her first withdrawal.

 

[DK007]

We don't know the exact date of when the transactions took place at this bank? There seem to have been two banks in a shopping mall at the time - the Commonwealth and the Colonial (a much smaller bank) which later became the Commonwealth Bank from what I remember.

Maybe RB took his time to groom this teller (I think she was a female) with a convincing story, offered her money, took her out for lunch, they had mutual friends, etc. Then he introduced "Marion" (his wife or someone posing as her) to this teller so she could withdraw the money. Maybe no ID was checked then or maybe it was and it looked OK. How often would Marion have driven from Southport to Ballina to this bank before her trip? It's a two hour drive! She had been away for a month or so too so I smell a rat with this.

Me too!! Something not quite right about this situation ? IMO

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Yes, it appears banks did not follow proper process as the amounts taken from Marion's account weren't normal behaviour and bank tellers were trained specifically for that. Notes from the inquest last year:

Graeme Smith, current CBA investigator

• Staff are trained about customers withdrawing large amounts in small periods.
• Particularly if they went to the same teller time and time again, it would trigger the process of an STR.
• Suspicious Transaction Report should have been made if anyone withdrew $5000 every day for just 3 days (let alone several weeks) as it’s unusual behaviour, especially as it was not the customer’s normal branch.
• But it wouldn’t be so noticable if the person visited multiple branches (as far as we know, they didn't).
• Withdrawing a large amount on one day, such as $80,000, would be a concern except when the purpose was to buy a house, then that wouldn’t be a red flag.
• Can only withdraw up to $800 per day at ATM or EFTPOS at the time.
• Police never contacted the CBA investigator and records are long gone.
• Thinks it's unusual Marion vanished yet left $14,000 in her account in the UK. He hasn't seen that before.

David Martin, bank manager of Colonial in 1997

• Withdrawing amounts over $10,000 were considered suspicious at the time and would be reported to AUSTRAC.
• Confirms on 2 June 1997, after house was sold, Marion opened a high performing interest earning account with the bank, and that her mortgage on the house was discharged. The account had a restriction of only being allowed to withdraw $5000 a day.
• He does NOT recall police or Salvos ever getting in contact with him ever.
• And they did NOT have a securities officer at Ashmore, ever.

Unrelated but important to highlight how many times people around Marion failed to do their job properly

• Graham Childs, the Senior Constable who Sally went to in Byron Bay, noted it as an occurrence not a missing person and as such, believed the case required no 'follow up'.
• He'd been been an officer for 22 years when Marion disappeared but claims he was not aware of the standing policy on missing person reports when speaking to Sally, and that he'd never run a missing person case.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Also, we have no clue what evidence the inquest, or ongoing police investigation, have on RB and his connection to Marion. The inquest isn't 'laying all their evidence out' as their purpose isn't to determine his guilt, but Marion's last steps. We have no idea what homicide squad have and are keeping until appropriate for a criminal case.

It's also possible they have many more witnesses but simply chose these two due to similarity to Marion's case.

 

[Estelle]

An excellent post, Perala.

IMO the only we hope we have of finding RB guilty of this is if this bank teller could be found.
If she is found or comes forward, and tells us he told her some story and he tricked her, then it could lead to a murder enquiry.

 

[allthatglittersisnotgold]

can some one tell me if fredrick dehedevary was the soccer play Fernando remakel that Marion had an affair with early on or did fredrick dehedevary just use the name Fernando remakel as an alias name and its just a coincidence that Marion already had a fling with someone by the name of Fernando remake thanks in advance

 

[allthatglittersisnotgold]

I would love to know what info Sally has on the missing paintings. I recall in one of the podcast episodes she said she believed Marion owned, and put into storage, a painting by each of Arthur Boyd, Jamie Boyd and Norman Lindsay, all very well known artists. I wonder if anyone has looked into finding the current owners of the paintings, or listing them on stolen art databases.

and fredrick dehedervary was an artist in the 1980s

 

[Deleted member 249471]

An excellent post, Peralta.
IMO the only we hope we have of finding RB guilty of this is if this bank teller could be found.
If she is found or comes forward, and tells us he told her some story and he tricked her, then it could lead to a murder enquiry.

Or if:

• someone around him speaks up
• they found Marion's remains somewhere associated with him
• they find one of his other aliases in connection to Marion, like on the plane with her, or at arts centre
• they found her belongings or id on him or associated with him
• travel agent or storage company appears and verify seeing him
• other police are witness to other crimes they were investigating him for that now connects to Marion
• they have other witnesses that saw something - there are 4 days scheduled next week and we only know of DW and RB as witnesses, who are the others?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I'm also remembering that there were a whole lot of employees form Colonial and CBA in the area that HAVE been arrested for fraud and ripping off their elderly clients.

Graham Patrick Higgins who worked at Byron Bay CBA and was known to do shifts at Burleigh Heads is just one example.