Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #6

[sunnybree]

1986-10-06 FD returns to Australia

1986-10-06 FDs residence 17 Linning St, Warren Park Qld

There are 62 units there now. It is 30 minutes drive south of Brisbane.

https://www.domain.com.au/building-profile/17-25-linning-street-mount-warren-park-qld-4207

When you are asked to put your address on your Arrivals card when arriving in a new country, you don't have to prove it. You can virtually put anything as it is rarely checked unless you are wanted for a crime later. I think he made up all these addresses as he would not want anyone to find him.

I’m familiar with Linning Street (been there). Definitely a modest, lower socioeconomic area these days, but in the 80s the units may have been newer or considered modern. Mount Warren Park borders on the suburb of Beenleigh. Both a part of the Logan City Council area now but I’m not sure about back in the 80s. Other suburbs now bordering to Mount Warren Park maybe have all been rural acreages and small farms back then. Possibly a quiet, unremarkable place to live.

 

[Estelle]

So here’s my thoughts on con artists.. there’s ego.. I mean there has to be doesn’t there to walk around as a different person, use different names attempt to pass of cheques with forged signatures.?

you have to have ego to do that..

So that got me thinking.. ego.. boasting about wealth, coins, boasting about property with red cedar trees.. that thought led me to search if red cedar grows naturally in the area of nymboida.. yes it’s possible. Plantations not so much as there hasn’t been a lot of success growing the native red cedar as plantations.
From there I thought I wonder if there’s images of red cedar in Nymboida… maybe an old property?

And down the rabbit hole I went again (lost count over the last few years with this case) anyway… I ended up on Flickr.

Then the idea of ego and past docs of man of many names stating he was a photographer.. so I searched.

there is
Willy Wouters x 3
Ric Blum x 2
Richard Westbury x 1
Nymboida x 1
None of these profiles on Flickr have uploaded any images.

I don’t know if I have a point as my search was unsuccessful BUT I do believe ego plays a big part and the thrill of the chase.

Therefore if you are ego driven… you make mistakes because your ego gets in the way…. IF this person was involved with Marion whilst OS or on return… there will be something out there.. that proves this it may be the tiniest thing.. but it’s there.

something he has forgotten, something he showed off about.. something his ego couldn’t hide.

What an amazing find!

As he has claimed to be a photographer, I commend your idea to search Flickr and found seven profiles there.

Willy Wouters x 3
Ric Blum x 2
Richard Westbury x 1
Nymboida x 1

None of these profiles on Flickr have uploaded any images there these days but obviously he used to have photos there to prove to others that he was a photographer. But maybe also to prove something to others that he was rich and owned things he perhaps didn't, or put photos up of his coins, art or paintings to sell, places the could visit overseas, where he "lived" (another person's house perhaps) or other items, maybe even photos of himself using these different personas. IMO this would have been done to encourage people to trust him or as a tool to sell things. He wouldn't have wanted to send or give anyone a printed photo. Maybe just had them on his mobile phone to show them in person. I wonder when he deleted them. Perhaps when police came looking for him or after their usefulness.

Then after he developed the trust and so on, he deleted the photos or kept them in case he needed to show them to someone else.

The lengths this man was prepared to go to is mind boggling!

 

[poppypopcorn]

Also, Marion would not have had the right to work in the UK. Not as an Australian in her 50s. The education was highly regulated even in the 90s and no state funded or private school would have touched her with a bargepole without the right accreditation and paperwork - which she could have obtained, but not right away. Even if she thought she was married to an EU national.

Investing in a pre-school/nursery though would be a different matter. I can see why it would be attractive for a woman who wasn't just a teacher, but a teacher of the youngest age group in schools in Australia. Wasn't she teaching 5 or 6 year olds at the southport school?

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

What an amazing find!

As he has claimed to be a photographer, I commend your idea to search Flickr and found seven profiles there.

Willy Wouters x 3
Ric Blum x 2
Richard Westbury x 1
Nymboida x 1

None of these profiles on Flickr have uploaded any images there these days but obviously he used to have photos there to prove to others that he was a photographer. But maybe also to prove something to others that he was rich and owned things he perhaps didn't, or put photos up of his coins, art or paintings to sell, places the could visit overseas, where he "lived" (another person's house perhaps) or other items, maybe even photos of himself using these different personas. IMO this would have been done to encourage people to trust him or as a tool to sell things. He wouldn't have wanted to send or give anyone a printed photo. Maybe just had them on his mobile phone to show them in person. I wonder when he deleted them. Perhaps when police came looking for him or after their usefulness.

The lengths this man went to is mind boggling!

Then after he developed the trust and so on, he deleted the photos or kept them in case needed to show someone else.

I found it strange to bother creating your profile as a contributor and not have content.. so yes you may be right - images were there now not.
Or it’s a completely bloody coincidence that these names are there.. which may be the case but maybe not.
I believe somewhere there are photos that this person has taken.. whether amateur or professional.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

What an amazing find!

As he has claimed to be a photographer, I commend your idea to search Flickr and found seven profiles there.

Willy Wouters x 3
Ric Blum x 2
Richard Westbury x 1
Nymboida x 1

None of these profiles on Flickr have uploaded any images there these days but obviously he used to have photos there to prove to others that he was a photographer. But maybe also to prove something to others that he was rich and owned things he perhaps didn't, or put photos up of his coins, art or paintings to sell, places the could visit overseas, where he "lived" (another person's house perhaps) or other items, maybe even photos of himself using these different personas. IMO this would have been done to encourage people to trust him or as a tool to sell things. He wouldn't have wanted to send or give anyone a printed photo. Maybe just had them on his mobile phone to show them in person. I wonder when he deleted them. Perhaps when police came looking for him or after their usefulness.

The lengths this man went to is mind boggling!

Then after he developed the trust and so on, he deleted the photos or kept them in case needed to show someone else.

I found it strange to bother creating your profile as a contributor and not have content.. so yes you may be right - images were there now not.
Or it’s a completely bloody coincidence that these names are there.. which may be the case but maybe not.
I believe somewhere there are photos that this person has taken.. whether amateur or professional.

 

[KiwiNZ]

This is exactly why I’m thinking he might be in custody? If he isn’t in custody, then he has been free to watch the entire inquest and therefore would know exactly what information has been revealed so far. Things that make very little sense to us right now (like the questions about a laneway beside Marion’s house) would make total sense to him. If he has been free to watch the inquest and has internet access, he is now one step ahead and has gained himself one week to think up more lies in preparation for the 14th.

Agree this is odd, to think he could be on websleuths reading our thoughts on his claims and then trying to weave another far fetch story based on our theories.

I feel like I wouldn't be surprised if the inquest gets stopped and charges pressed instead, but I don't really know how that works legally, or if there is an advantage to playing this out in the inquest first

 

[Estelle]

“Heaps of private schools. Could have had a job in a local village school. Relief but not ready yet”. Also “I found a brochure for The Mead School (Tunbridge Wells) around where I’m staying. It looked interesting. There seem to be a lot of private schools everywhere. But after I return from Europe”

Based on these postcard entries I don’t think Marion was looking at purchasing a school (good luck with that in the South East of England) but was missing teaching already and was considering taking a job in a school in the area.

But after I return from Europe” so that implies to me that she had not yet been to Luxembourg and intended to see Europe via the Orient Express? Yet she put on the Arrivals Card that she was a housewife living in Luxembourg. Maybe that is what he told her to write or someone else wrote it.

However, it appears that on this postcard, Marion was still hoping to go on the Orient Express and that is the way she had planned to see Europe. I decided to look up the route:

What is the traditional route for Orient Express?

The Orient Express has always run from Paris Gare de l'Est via Munich, Vienna & Budapest, whereas the Simplon Orient Express started running in April 1919, taking a Southerly route from Calais and Paris Gare de Lyon to Milan, Venice, Trieste, Zagreb, Belgrade, Sofia and Istanbul, with a portion for Athens.

So maybe they were going to meet up in England, he was already with Marion, or he had gone to Belgium on business and told her he would meet up with her later. Had RB promised Marion before they left that he would join her on the Orient Express? But Marion said in a later postcard that she had cancelled the idea of going on the Orient Express. Was that because RB had later told her that he could not longer join her so she didn't want to go alone?

But if RB was not with Marion in England, how did they meet up or communicate with each other if she did not have a set itinerary or a date and place to meet later? I doubt if both had mobile phones then. Did RB tell Marion to go to this travel agent friend of his in England (the same one JO was told to go to) who would know how to contact him? Then Marion could have been told that RB has had to go back to Australia urgently and that he would like her to buy a one way fare back to Australia and he would meet her at the airport. Or before Marion got to Heathrow airport, something happened to her and a female with dark hair used her airline ticket, got her passport and took the flight.

 

[Estelle]

I wonder if this "school" thing is another one of those issues where we use different terminology in the UK/Australia and there has been confusion.

School to me as a UK based person would mean somewhere that children aged 5+ would go, compulsory education. There are of course private schools in the UK but they aren't really bought or sold. Most have charitable or non-profit making status and are run by a board of trustees rather than being "owned" and they don't change hands. As a teacher Marion would probably have been aware of this and I don't think she'd have perceived "investing in a private school" as any way attractive/plausible had she known about British education system.

On the other hand there are the establishments which we would call nurseries, and which in other parts of the world would be known as daycare, pre-school, kindergarten etc. Places which look after children up to the age of compulsory education, providing care for babies as little as 3 months right up to 5 year olds. In the 3-4-5 age range there is an educational element and many will have a qualified teacher on site. Most nurseries/kindergartens/daycares are privately owned and run either by a company or individual. These places set up and close down all the time and are much smaller. Many just run out of a converted house. That sort of proposed investment I can see as more plausible, and the smart villages/towns in affluent West Sussex would be just the sort of place where the service is in high demand.

This is what I assumed and mentioned in a previous post many pages ago so I agree with you.

 

[Estelle]

Agree this is odd, to think he could be on websleuths reading our thoughts on his claims and then trying to weave another far fetch story based on our theories.

I feel like I wouldn't be surprised if the inquest gets stopped and charges pressed instead, but I don't really know how that works legally, or if there is an advantage to playing this out in the inquest first

If he's not in custody, how do they know he is even going to turn up?

 

[KiwiNZ]

If he's not in custody, how do they know he is even going to turn up?

True I have no idea, I don't really know how it works, could you really trust RB just to turn up of his own accord ? I doubt it.

Although I am sure his lawyer may give him advice that it's probably a good idea to attend especially if your trying to come across as innocent in this matter.

Did he retain a lawyer just because, or because he is in custody ?

 

[DK007]

Lol, this story is so confusing that I needed a refresher. I went back and listened to Casselden's opening speech from last week, where he summarises RB's witness statement:

RB, previously known as FDdH and WW, claims he had an affair with Marion (Warren) during the mid 60's. She was there with Socceroo husband, Johnny Warren for a training camp. RB said he was known as Willy Wouters at that time and that he met Marion at the hotel lobby.

Marion was married to JW from 67 to 69. Records show she travelled 'overseas' between Sep 1968 to Feb 1969. We know she was definitely in England around Sept 1968 but we've never heard of Marion potentially having been in Switzerland until now.

RB admits he placed the Monsieur FN Remakel ad in the Le Courrier in 94 - the one that has the Lennox Head PO Box and Ballina ph number. And that he was looking for a French speaking friend. We don't know if Marion ever saw the Le Courrier ad.

RB claims that years later Marion (Barter) placed a 'lonely hearts' ad herself around 95 0r 96, and HE responded to HER. At this time, he went by the name Ric. Because of the name change, he claims he did not know it was the same Marion, they talked on the phone, met up for a meal or drink and went back to her house, then spent 3 or 4 nights together. At this time, she told him personal info about herself, her family and her job.

RB claims that after Marion resigned, he went to TSS with her to pick up some books. After she sold her house, she asked him to store boxes at his house in Wollongbar in Lismore and they arrived by a removalist. For reference, Wollongbar is a 20 min drive from Ballina central. Given what we know of Marions's movements, Police believe these incidents would have happened between April and May of 1997.

RB claims about a week later, Marion went to collect the boxes at his house with a tall man in his 50s who might be a navy officer or pilot. Marion and the man were going to Europe to go on the Orient Express. She was going to live in the UK with the man and wanted to open a private school in England. This was the last time he saw her.

Police say RB was a photographer and coin dealer who travelled frequently to Europe in the 80s and 90s, primarily to Belgium, for work and personal reasons. He also lived in a number of states in Australia.

Police say they have records that Ric Blum obtained a QLD licence in the name Fernand Nikolaus Remakel, many years before Marion changed her name and disappeared.

On YouTube, search: 'Coroners Court of New South Wales'.
Video: Inquest into the disappearance of Marion Barter (aka Florabella Natalia Remakel) - Day one
Timestamp: 4:04:26

Answering someone else's question, it's an uncanny coincidence that there is also another man named FNMR in Luxembourg who was a professional soccer player, but we don't know if he ever met Johnny Warren or Marion. That FNMR claims to never have been to Australia. And there are no passports in or out of Aus in the name of FN Remakel, other than Marion.

Short version
RB admits to being Mr FNR and records show he had a QLD licence in that name. He also admits he knew Marion and had an intimate relationship with her, including seeing her shortly before she (coincidently) changed her name to his alias, went overseas and disappeared. Had also admits to going to her workplace and having her belongings in his house. What do you think?

Lots of red flags and smells super fishy ! IMO

 

[DK007]

If he's not in custody, how do they know he is even going to turn up?

not all is revealed, I suggest at this stage he would be a flight risk? Also depending on his mobility?

 

[DK007]

If he's not in custody, how do they know he is even going to turn up?

A witness will usually be asked to attend the inquest voluntarily, but if they do not agree and their evidence is crucial, the Coroner may issue a witness summons to compel their attendance. If the witness then does not attend he/she may be arrested, brought before the Coroner and charged with contempt of Court.

How long police can hold you in custody depends entirely on the circumstance. Generally, the standard time the police can hold you for is 24 hours until they will need to charge you with a criminal offence or release you. In exceptional circumstances, they can apply to hold you for longer, up to 36 or 96 hours.

 

[Estelle]

If he is charged with anything and there is going to be a trial, all of this research will be deleted on here due to subjudice. So if there is anything you wish to keep, copy it now.

 

[DK007]

If he is charged with anything and there is going to be a trial, all of this research will be deleted on here due to subjudice. So if there is anything you wish to keep, copy it now.

sounds like said person is playing by the rules, however if coroner did summon said person as a witness it most likely would not be made public knowledge

 

[Belleandsebastian]

If he is charged with anything and there is going to be a trial, all of this research will be deleted on here due to subjudice. So if there is anything you wish to keep, copy it now.

Yep, and possibility the podcast taken down like ‘The Teacher’s Pet’

 

[DK007]

Yep, and possibility the podcast taken down like ‘The Teacher’s Pet’

yes exactly right

 

[Estelle]

Yep, and possibility the podcast taken down like ‘The Teacher’s Pet’

Yes it will - only to be re-erected hopefully again in the future if this crime is solved. Oh what a movie it would make! I don't think a moviemaker could make this plot up. However, if it becomes a movie one day, I hope it educates women especially when they become divorced, to become wiser in their choices of males.

 

[Bibno]

I wonder if this "school" thing is another one of those issues where we use different terminology in the UK/Australia and there has been confusion.

School to me as a UK based person would mean somewhere that children aged 5+ would go, compulsory education. There are of course private schools in the UK but they aren't really bought or sold. Most have charitable or non-profit making status and are run by a board of trustees rather than being "owned" and they don't change hands. As a teacher Marion would probably have been aware of this and I don't think she'd have perceived "investing in a private school" as any way attractive/plausible had she known about British education system.

On the other hand there are the establishments which we would call nurseries, and which in other parts of the world would be known as daycare, pre-school, kindergarten etc. Places which look after children up to the age of compulsory education, providing care for babies as little as 3 months right up to 5 year olds. In the 3-4-5 age range there is an educational element and many will have a qualified teacher on site. Most nurseries/kindergartens/daycares are privately owned and run either by a company or individual. These places set up and close down all the time and are much smaller. Many just run out of a converted house. That sort of proposed investment I can see as more plausible, and the smart villages/towns in affluent West Sussex would be just the sort of place where the service is in high demand.

I've been wondering about this too. At the time, the 1990s it would have been a massive endeavour to start a school, not even worth considering. But just as you say, a Kindergarten would be feasible.

 

[centred]

AM - MARKETING AND INTERNET SERVICES

Was this the name of the business someone posted recently please ?