Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

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It's really up to individuals to keep their own notes, particularly as all the information is already posted within this forum. There's a search bar for a reason. Plus there's a podcast, news articles and an inquest. If you want a timeline for yourself, start your own file, go back and look for the timelines people already graciously shared, and start keeping track of the things that interest you. Or simply listen to the podcast from start to finish while taking notes, as we all did. Or simply drop in as a casual observer. Lol.

lol righto. i did use the search bar but nothing came up so thought perhaps someone might be able to point me in the direction... Sorry, am new here and obviously confused by everyone else asking questions and getting responses.... had me thinking this was some sort of collaborative effort to piece together and find answers for the family. But thank you, i stand corrected & now realise it was a competition where it was each working only for themselves and asking questions or working together is frowned upon.
 
yes this was the phone number they both insisted was the only one they had and it was their home number


In Ballina i thought ... They only lived in that time for 12 months nearby but not close so maybe transferred the number or it was passed on when they moved in 1997 to someone else

Mr C kept on about this and the year "what happened in 1996 ? " Why did you move to Wollinbar
and the inconvenience ?

They moved back to Ballina after 12 months and I think this was after Marion disappeared 1997/98

The phone number and queried about someone phoning and looking for Ric ? Did someone also turn up at the Ballina house looking for him ? 1996

They moved ....

Did he met Marion earlier then 96/97 , whoever answered that add had his phone number ...

Is this why he had to tell D about Marion because she made herself known to the household in that year or before and it created marital issues and moving lessened any possible further complications until at least after everything played out , He could have spun D a story about being harassed by a wanton women and we have to move .

D did say in testimony " I knew about her " later she may have said he told her last year but i am not positive about that ...

I think RB was "bewitched" by Marion and I think she moved to QLD 1994 ,he placed the add that year also, I am musing that he didn't go to QLD very often because of distance and contemplated it often as he said but no doubt he considered the effort worth it when he could manage to get away and/or coincide with markets available in QLD so it took time to whoo her for many reasons .....He was known for leaving gaps between contacts .

Anyway sorry just had some thoughts to put together from inquest
 
Sorry for the long post… but after listening to all two weeks of the recent inquest sitting, I have to say that RB/FDH/FNR/etc seems to have a pattern of making up weird stories that seem to make no logical sense and seem to be shooting himself in the foot, but in his pathological liar/narcissistic head, the made up evidence is trying to counter a potential hole in his initial evidence to police or his wife’s evidence or his previous evidence on the stand (I.e. the belly dancing story, the cheap air tickets from the JAL Director , the wife’s condition/memory story, the horse kick to the head/memory story, the meeting his wife on the boat story where the dates don’t add up).

There’s always a reason for all these stories… but we can’t quite connect the motives of exactly why he’s lying in some of these stories just yet.

As such, I don’t actually believe that he met Marion in Switzerland in the 1960s - it’s all too much of a coincidence. While him telling police that they had an affair when she was married to JW seems to be an extraordinary thing to admit to and shooting himself in the foot (when police probably would never have found this out), I think he’s offered it up as a red herring for some reason unknown to us all at this point in time… but I believe it’s definitely a lie. Maybe it’s to help him paint Marion as the ‘insatiable’ lover he’s clearly presenting her as (what an utter prick), maybe it’s to make it seem like he’s cooperating with police by giving them some new info, or maybe it’s got something to do with his lie that Marion placed the ad rather than the other way around (that she answered his ad), but I think the Switzerland story will be found to be a lie. I think he and his wife (and probably son and daughter too, although they might not have made the connection with their own family) have been listening to the podcast this whole time, and RB concocted this lie when the podcast mentioned that Marion had travelled with JW when he was playing soccer, so when the police finally came knocking, he already had this red herring in his arsenal.

I also think that RB has been watching a lot of The Simpsons. He constantly uses the very same tactic as Grandpa Simpson in his story about the onion. He waffles off on tangents all the time, constantly trying to plant more red herrings and disrupt the prosecution’s flow:

If Marion had really placed an ad in the Courier Mail, surely this could be found easily, as RB gave a date of when this was? Do we know if anyone has found this yet?

I also think that he always used his home phone number in these ads and used his home phone number to answer these ads because DDH knew exactly what he was up to. He had already brainwashed her into thinking this con man behaviour was fine - after all, she benefitted financially from his affairs with these women too. Why did he leave ads and documents out in the open and not lock his filing cabinet? Because I think she knew exactly what he was getting up to. Yes, DDH is one of his victim’s too… but I also think she’s complicit in his fraudulent behaviour.

It also astounds me that he doesn’t think the court will find it strange that he can remember some things so clearly and definitively, like exact details of meeting up with Marion in 1997, but he can’t remember where he went in the UK with JO or what airline he flew with. With his narcissistic brain, I wonder if he realises just how much we’re all laughing at the evidence he’s giving and just how flimsy and utterly crazy it is! He probably truly believes he’s a criminal mastermind. I wonder what on earth his kids think about all this!
 
There has to be something significant about the Japan stopover. In 1997 he stops flying Japan air. And RB referenced Marion being into Korean food/culture (which must be to highlight her stopover in Korea). I don’t know what stopping future flights on Japan air accomplishes. It doesn’t do anything to cover up the trip he took in 1997. Maybe the airline banned him for doing something inappropriate. I hate these pieces that seem relevant but don’t quite make sense.
 
I also think that RB has been watching a lot of The Simpsons. He constantly uses the very same tactic as Grandpa Simpson in his story about the onion. He waffles off on tangents all the time, constantly trying to plant more red herrings and disrupt the prosecution’s flow:
I really needed this laugh, thank you!
 
Yes, I agree. But also, 16 is mature enough to look after oneself, if needed. This might be why they moved to Wollongbar... so no-one would see that parent's aren't home. She could take the bus to school and swimming training. Lol, I keep swinging between all options :p

This has crossed my mind about the move as well. A 16 year old is certainly going to remember the time both her parents left her alone or with friends for a week or two. The brother was 18 then so I guess he could have been left in charge. I really hope that both the children are called to give evidence.

Interesting fact, NSW has 2 weeks of school holidays in the month of July and another 2 weeks in Sep/Oct.
 
My theory about RB and his decades long activities are this:


After successfully finding wealthy, independent women with partners and befriending them by way of some similarity eg coin collectors, sporting connections and other various connections of interests yet to be determined, he uses different aliases upon leaving and coming back into Australia as to not leave a trail to his connection to the woman / fraudulent activities overseas.

Once he has the victim overseas he uses the common practice of excuse to go visit family/ business dealings etc and leaves the victims to sightsee on their own for a few days, giving them some money to get around but nothing else, no passport and no money of their own. They are left in the town he choses to take them to because they have a connection to it.

He goes back collects the suitcase with all legal documents and travels home on said alias. He then sets about sorting all the paperwork needed to transfer deeds etc etc, into his name / alias.
His "Agent" OverSeas - (as Jo explains in her Testimony) - is left to do the deed of getting rid of the victim IF need be.

He needs an accomplice to assist with his plan coming back to Australia in the form of a woman. That person potentially is DdeH. Somehow the passport of SOME of the women have to return home... the women who have connects with estranged family/ not close family .....etc perhaps.

But DdeH wouldnt be needed all of the time. The women with no family would not be missed or searched for perhaps.

I think there are many many many "Marions" that families have not searched for....

Unfortunately his plans didn't work with the 2 women we know about -
Jo because she called her cousin and they arranged to get her home
GGB because she stayed in Australia

He is 80 yrs old with over 30 aliases. Even if he is dealing with theft he wouldn't be needing a new name every 2/3 years.

He uses a new alias each time he swindles a victim, coming in and out of the country on that alias.

Goes home, back to the family life of Mr FdeH. Australia is his safe place, his breathing space, his workbench.

His wife has a hand in most of this. No one, living with this sort of person and not working for most of her life would be oblivious to what is going on around her. They both paint a picture of living on a smell of an oily rag yet somehow he can manage to travel OS numerous times a year and buy and sell houses, send kids to events for sports all over the country all by "selling a few coins" and being pensioners. I dont think so!

This is just my opinion on this crazy story!
 
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There has to be something significant about the Japan stopover. In 1997 he stops flying Japan air. And RB referenced Marion being into Korean food/culture (which must be to highlight her stopover in Korea). I don’t know what stopping future flights on Japan air accomplishes. It doesn’t do anything to cover up the trip he took in 1997. Maybe the airline banned him for doing something inappropriate. I hate these pieces that seem relevant but don’t quite make sense.
I’ve flown that JAL route before in the late 90s, early 2000s. They used to put you up overnight in a hotel and feed you dinner for free because the layover time was so long. At some point JAL stopped doing it. I suspect he used to wine and dine them overnight for free as a way to impress them (I’m sure he didn’t tell them it was free). When JAL stopped offering it, he stopped flying with them.
There has to be something significant about the Japan stopover. In 1997 he stops flying Japan air. And RB referenced Marion being into Korean food/culture (which must be to highlight her stopover in Korea). I don’t know what stopping future flights on Japan air accomplishes. It doesn’t do anything to cover up the trip he took in 1997. Maybe the airline banned him for doing something inappropriate. I hate these pieces that seem relevant but don’t quite make sense.
 
This has crossed my mind about the move as well. A 16 year old is certainly going to remember the time both her parents left her alone or with friends for a week or two. The brother was 18 then so I guess he could have been left in charge. I really hope that both the children are called to give evidence.

Interesting fact, NSW has 2 weeks of school holidays in the month of July and another 2 weeks in Sep/Oct.
Alison Sandy has replied to someone on Twitter saying they are not giving evidence at the inquest. Hopefully they have still been interviewed by police or had to write a statement.
 
Sorry for the long post… but after listening to all two weeks of the recent inquest sitting, I have to say that RB/FDH/FNR/etc seems to have a pattern of making up weird stories that seem to make no logical sense and seem to be shooting himself in the foot, but in his pathological liar/narcissistic head, the made up evidence is trying to counter a potential hole in his initial evidence to police or his wife’s evidence or his previous evidence on the stand (I.e. the belly dancing story, the cheap air tickets from the JAL Director , the wife’s condition/memory story, the horse kick to the head/memory story, the meeting his wife on the boat story where the dates don’t add up).

There’s always a reason for all these stories… but we can’t quite connect the motives of exactly why he’s lying in some of these stories just yet.

As such, I don’t actually believe that he met Marion in Switzerland in the 1960s - it’s all too much of a coincidence. While him telling police that they had an affair when she was married to JW seems to be an extraordinary thing to admit to and shooting himself in the foot (when police probably would never have found this out), I think he’s offered it up as a red herring for some reason unknown to us all at this point in time… but I believe it’s definitely a lie. Maybe it’s to help him paint Marion as the ‘insatiable’ lover he’s clearly presenting her as (what an utter prick), maybe it’s to make it seem like he’s cooperating with police by giving them some new info, or maybe it’s got something to do with his lie that Marion placed the ad rather than the other way around (that she answered his ad), but I think the Switzerland story will be found to be a lie. I think he and his wife (and probably son and daughter too, although they might not have made the connection with their own family) have been listening to the podcast this whole time, and RB concocted this lie when the podcast mentioned that Marion had travelled with JW when he was playing soccer, so when the police finally came knocking, he already had this red herring in his arsenal.

I also think that RB has been watching a lot of The Simpsons. He constantly uses the very same tactic as Grandpa Simpson in his story about the onion. He waffles off on tangents all the time, constantly trying to plant more red herrings and disrupt the prosecution’s flow:

If Marion had really placed an ad in the Courier Mail, surely this could be found easily, as RB gave a date of when this was? Do we know if anyone has found this yet?

I also think that he always used his home phone number in these ads and used his home phone number to answer these ads because DDH knew exactly what he was up to. He had already brainwashed her into thinking this con man behaviour was fine - after all, she benefitted financially from his affairs with these women too. Why did he leave ads and documents out in the open and not lock his filing cabinet? Because I think she knew exactly what he was getting up to. Yes, DDH is one of his victim’s too… but I also think she’s complicit in his fraudulent behaviour.

It also astounds me that he doesn’t think the court will find it strange that he can remember some things so clearly and definitively, like exact details of meeting up with Marion in 1997, but he can’t remember where he went in the UK with JO or what airline he flew with. With his narcissistic brain, I wonder if he realises just how much we’re all laughing at the evidence he’s giving and just how flimsy and utterly crazy it is! He probably truly believes he’s a criminal mastermind. I wonder what on earth his kids think about all this!

Appreciate the laugh too :D:Dand the insights about the absolute transparency to everyone else that this seemly pitiful man is trying to spin and cannot see his foot shooting at all :rolleyes: oh i forgot to mention

the motive in his head is to make sure he isnt seen or proven to have done any illegal thing wrong ...THAT is his main concern and no doubt in my mind that is what he is trying to do even if it means he looks and sounds ridiculously unbelievable
 
In response to people posting who they would have RB played in a film, to me he looks a lot like the guy from ‘Pie in the Sky’ (unfortunately the actor has passed away though). The resemblance is uncanny.
 

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lol righto. i did use the search bar but nothing came up so thought perhaps someone might be able to point me in the direction... Sorry, am new here and obviously confused by everyone else asking questions and getting responses.... had me thinking this was some sort of collaborative effort to piece together and find answers for the family. But thank you, i stand corrected & now realise it was a competition where it was each working only for themselves and asking questions or working together is frowned upon.


I am positive that this is not what was meant at all.
Many people here have spent days, months and years on this case.
I am also fairly new to the site and it has only been by searching through many comments and using the Information given by the moderators at the Introduction that has helped me understand to some degree on how to get around this site.
The pages here for MB have been a collaborative effort for many years it seems by individuals giving up their time to add weight to the case. I have learnt a lot just by reading these posts and listening to the podcasts but there is so much information that it is challenging to get your head around.
Using the search bar that was just suggested is something I wasn't even aware of and it is those small things that are a godsend to navigating your way around.
Everyone here is so helpful and all working toward a common goal - finding out what happened to Sallys mum. There is no competition.
You just have to find your own way in what you want to research and use this as a tool.
 
Appreciate the laugh too :D:Dand the insights about the absolute transparency to everyone else that this seemly pitiful man is trying to spin and cannot see his foot shooting at all :rolleyes: oh i forgot to mention

the motive in his head is to make sure he isnt seen or proven to have done any illegal thing wrong ...THAT is his main concern and no doubt in my mind that is what he is trying to do even if it means he looks and sounds ridiculously unbelievable

Yes, another reason for the ridiculously unbelievable stories is that you can see he's trying really hard to make out he hasn't made any money from his coin business, as he's on the pension at the same time. He's weaving crazy webs so he doesn't get investigated for pension fraud. I, personally, think that's the least of his worries!
 
Timeline
Aug - Sept 1997

Commonwealth Bank (CBA) $5k withdrawn daily for 3.5 weeks at Byron Bay (and 3 days in middle at Burleigh Heads branch), totalling between $85k to $120k.


15 October 1997
$80,000 withdrawn from Colonial State Bank, Ashmore.

18 October 1997
Owen’s birthday (Marion's son). He did not hear from Marion which is very unusual for Marion. No-one's heard from Marion in 3 months.

22 October 1997
Sally makes police report at Byron Bay.

2002
Owen dies by suicide.

which branch did Marion frequent ordinarily before she sold her house?
 
It’s a excellent post and I really wish I had a decent response.

Is he though some clever criminal that had thought through the whole process before embarking on his masterplan?

He does seems to have a love for legal documents because as in his words “it’s so easy”.

Was his challenge just to get her legal documents and valuables initially and then he wondered what he could do with them - if she was still alive? He seemed keen on telling Casselden that he only spoke to the male to find out the date when JO would arrive home. Of course, he wanted to know that. If he had been responsible for Marion's death two years before, did he chicken out on his end plan before JO caught the train to Manchester?
 
I hope there is something to this. They (RB/DdH) have given lots of information that could be researched. I mean, members here have already found quite a few things - imagine what else the police have access to. I really hope they find what is needed to hold this guy accountable for what he's done. I still think he's responsible for Marion's disappearance but for the cons alone he should be jailed.
It would not be surprising if Interpol are involved on some level of the investigation
 
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