Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[centred]

yes i understand the assumption and the latest connection ,

What i was trying to clarify is Marions other flight details to and from the Continent or the UK from and too Korea and Hong Kong ?
and i am gathering the travel was all in the Florabella passport ?

Sorry if it wasnt clear that is what i was seeking .
Edit

I am having cliches with my mouse sorry ..

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Yes but both of them have said they never had a computer at all.
Of course they did, if they can afford for him to take trips OS for 40 yrs and move houses a dozen times, send the kids to competitive swim meets while still in school in the 90's, of course they could afford a computer. imo.

I recall D saying she had a computer but FDH never used it

 

[mishy66]

it is not a matter off affording a computer , in the 90s it just was no where near the norm for many of us . I was a really slow starter and installed my first one in 2005 and still had many family and friends not bothering but of course now one has very little option to be off grid , off line .

So no i do not think or believe they had access in the 90s ....we did things very differently , we had land lines and maybe a fax for business type dealings

yes sorry I shouldn't have assumed that all people had computers in the 90s.

I should have clarified that many families had computer access quite easily from the late 80's. Going on personal experience here , everyone I knew had computers in homes in the 80s - then there is public library access.

Given that RB had a long history of various dealings and that they had teenagers living through the 80s and 90s it would be VERY feasible to assume that they had a computer. IMO

But someone did point out earlier they did have a computer but RB didnt use it. I will have to revisit that long drawn out testimony of DdeH.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Yes but both of them have said they never had a computer at all.
Of course they did, if they can afford for him to take trips OS for 40 yrs and move houses a dozen times, send the kids to competitive swim meets while still in school in the 90's, of course they could afford a computer. imo.

I recall D saying she had a computer but FDH never used it

 

[centred]

The assumptions about Marion and Japan are very old. They were made years ago by sleuths here more knowledgable than I, when the letter was first revealed on the podcast, years before we knew about RB. They have nothing to do with RB. The fact the inquest is bringing up RB's history with Japan and Narita is very interesting and validating. Although, of course, they are not facts so feel free to discard them.

The only details I have about RB's travel related to Marion are:

17 June 1997
Richard Lloyd Westbury departs Aus to Japan
Passenger card says he intends to spend 30 days in Belgium

31 July 1997
Richard Lloyd Westbury arrives in Aus

Yes i see his flights are only for this leg and the only valid connection we can make is the time frame , nothing else connects them of course

 

[centred]

I recall D saying she had a computer but FDH never used it

Then there is no debate then , my point was the comment suggested affordability as a rebuttal for either of them denying they had a computer , if she said so Ok but he says no apparently, not that i give much credence to what either of them say to be honest .
Now i am wondering why it makes that much difference to the disappearance re Marion > My experience of the times and being in business it is not just an opinion that we did not rely on them whatsoever to be able to run a business

 

[mishy66]

17 June 1997
Richard Lloyd Westbury departs Aus to Japan
Passenger card says he intends to spend 30 days in Belgium

31 July 1997
Richard Lloyd Westbury arrives in Aus

this is him using RLW to leave aust prior to marion and then returning again the couple of days prior to her coming in, yes?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

this is him using RLW to leave aust prior to marion and then returning again the couple of days prior to her coming in, yes?

RLW was his legal name at the time, so we assume it was him.

At the time, he was also known to use Federick de Hedervary (the name he always used at home and family life) and the aliases Fernand Remakel and Ric West. I'm sure there were more, these are just the ones we know of during 1996-1998 period.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

A

Then there is no debate then , my point was the comment suggested affordability as a rebuttal for either of them denying they had a computer , if she said so Ok but he says no apparently, not that i give much credence to what either of them say to be honest .
Now i am wondering why it makes that much difference to the disappearance re Marion > My experience of the times and being in business it is not just an opinion that we did not rely on them whatsoever to be able to run a business

Ummm not debating?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

yes i understand the assumption and the latest connection, What i was trying to clarify is Marions other flight details to and from the Continent or the UK from and too Korea and Hong Kong ?
and i am gathering the travel was all in the Florabella passport ?
Sorry if it wasnt clear that is what i was seeking .
Edit
I am having cliches with my mouse sorry ..

Unfortunately, the podcast and the sleuths here have NO flight records of travel outside of Aus as we don't have access to those records from overseas. Sally was only able to get her hands on Marion's Aus passenger cards through Freedom of Information.

The rest is off limits to us, but I'm sure Police and inquest have the full picture. They are likely in contact with international orgs and have flight manifests, etc.

Unfortunately, the inquest has not yet revealed a whole lot about RB's precise travel history.

Also remember that RB has a long history of going undetected by immigration officials. I don't know how he does it. He uses aliases. He sometimes appears to be in two places at once or nowhere at all. He might buy a ticket and not board. He might fudge passenger cards. He might bribe customs. He might take a flight and turn right back around on a name we don't know of. He might have an accomplice. Maybe he comes and goes on a boat. Anything is possible.

 

[centred]

None whatsoever. According to Sally, Marion never lacked the ability to meet people and find a boyfriend though traditional face-to-face means. She even had younger men at her disposal. So there was no reason to place an ad.

Or for that matter, as Casselden put it, chase a man in his 60s, who was an invalid pensioner with a wife and kids, who lived in rented premises, had a criminal record and was short on cash. No disrespect to anyone in a similar situation. But the lady had options. So he clearly lied to her about who he really was and his current situation.

Touche to Mr Big C

I tend to flip what he claims the women did as things HE did with several small variations thrown in ...apparently Narcs do something similar and tend to believe themselves .

Doing this gives me insight to the reality of the the interactions

 

[mishy66]

RLW was his legal name at the time, so we assume it was him.

At the time, he was also known to use Federick de Hedervary (the name he always used at home and family life) and the aliases Fernand Remakel and Ric West. I'm sure there were more, these are just the ones we know of during 1996-1998 period.

Thank you so much

 

[centred]

Unfortunately, the podcast and the sleuths here have NO flight records of travel outside of Aus as we don't have access to those records from overseas. Sally was only able to get her hands on Marion's Aus passenger cards through Freedom of Information. The rest is off limits to us, but I'm sure Police and inquest has the full picture.

And the inquest has not yet revealed a whole lot about RB's precise travel history.

Ok thanks so much , "I understand " my favorite phrase now haha

I was curious because i had wondered where Marion was when she phoned Sally ,that if her , she was on her way home , even if it wasn't her on the plane then this person flew from Hong Kong that day . I will be interested what flights details investigators have .

 

[liarmclies]

Can someone refresh what we know about the phone number that was used in the FMR's personal ad? Where was RB living at that time & what does he say about that number?

Am also interested if anyone has a timeline of RB's movements over the years? My head is spinning.

 

[SLouTh]

Not sure if this is allowed but I wonder if we could create a folder on google docs and put the solid timelines, FACTS we know about the case in chronological order on there. So much stuff gets lost in the thread(s) and they are useful to refer back to. I know I can make a personal one just for myself but I think sometimes it's good to have something that others can edit and make corrections. We could also write out outlines of theories on there and others could annotate with aspects that would seem to correct/dispute the theory. Just a thought. DELETE IF NOT ALLOWED.

This is an excellent idea!

There are some excellent timelines posted though-out the previous threads..... perhaps the posters could repost them, and they could be updated with the new info from the inquest .... with input from everyone...

Then we could ask a Mod to pin the the Timeline to the beginning of each new thread once it is updated??

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Can someone refresh what we know about the phone number that was used in the FMR's personal ad? Where was RB living at that time & what does he say about that number? Am also interested if anyone has a timeline of RB's movements over the years? My head is spinning.

The number in the Le Courrier rencontres was associated with RB's business called Ballina Coin, and that was associated with FDdH name. I think FDdH is the name he uses for family life (even when he is legally someone else), so they were able to find him. This is the company the wife was also involved in and questioned about. The one they supposedly never used and dissolved and sold to someone else.

I don't know when that was or where they lived. I think it might be around 1994 and they might've been living in Tasmania (allegedly). But that's a huge guess. I honestly don't know. Please don't quote me.

But also remember that they found him because he has a QLD licence in the same name as the Le Courrier ad.
24 Aug 88 – Fernand Noklaus Remakel (QLD license)
2 Oct 1992 – resissued
10 Dec 1994 – Le Courrier rencontres
2 Dec 1997 – expired

As fo RB's movement, there are many, many complete timelines posted in the last 3 weeks by others. I don't want to post yet another. They are huge and cumbersome!

 

[SLouTh]

As fo RB's movement, there are many, many complete timelines posted in the last 3 weeks by others. I don't want to post yet another. They are huge and cumbersome!

Maybe if they repost them now....sort of all together in one place, and then "Alert a Mod" to pin them to the beginning of each new thread??? Or even ask a Mod to start a "timeline thread" for this case???
imo

 

[centred]

The number in the Le Courrier rencontres was associated with RB's business called Ballina Coin, and that was associated with FDdH name. I think FDdH is the name he uses for family life (even when he is legally someone else), so they were able to find him. This is the company the wife was also involved in and questioned about. The one they supposedly never used and dissolved and sold to someone else.

I don't know when that was or where they lived. I think it might be around 1994 and they might've been living in Tasmania (allegedly). But that's a huge guess. I honestly don't know. Please don't quote me.

But also remember that they found him because he has a QLD licence in the same name as the Le Courrier ad.



As fo RB's movement, there are many, many complete timelines posted in the last 3 weeks by others. I don't want to post yet another. They are huge and cumbersome!

yes this was the phone number they both insisted was the only one they had and it was their home number


In Ballina i thought ... They only lived in that time for 12 months nearby but not close so maybe transferred the number or it was passed on when they moved in 1997 to someone else

 

[Deleted member 249471]

It's really up to individuals to keep their own notes, particularly if the information you're asking for is already posted within this forum, multiple times. There's a search bar for a reason. Plus there's a podcast, news articles and an inquest available on youtube. If you want a timeline for yourself, start your own file, go back and look for the timelines and info people already graciously researched and shared, and start keeping track of the things that interest you. Or simply listen to the podcast from start to finish while taking notes, as we all did. Or simply drop in as a casual observer. Lol.

 

[vivienbee]

It's really up to individuals to keep their own notes, particularly as all the information is already posted within this forum. There's a search bar for a reason. Plus there's a podcast, news articles and an inquest. If you want a timeline for yourself, start your own file, go back and look for the timelines people already graciously shared, and start keeping track of the things that interest you. Or simply listen to the podcast from start to finish while taking notes, as we all did. Or simply drop in as a casual observer. Lol.

I'm sorry if what I wrote hit a nerve, I wasn't trying to be annoying. I've listened to every episode of the podcast from the beginning and read every page of this thread. I didn't mean to be controversial or suggest that anyone else should do all the work, I just find it difficult sometimes to navigate through 9 threads of posts, even with the search bar function in action. I see now that my suggestion may have been a dumb one but there's no need to be rude about it? We're all just trying to help.