Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[DK007]

It seems from what was said today that Andree Flamme was an old lady who he took advantage of and stole from. I would wager that his trips to visit his "family" consisted of him visiting old ladies and stealing their valuables, then either selling them in Europe or bringing them back to Australia to sell.

Maybe he has a lot stolen goods he’s buried in the garden holes he’s dug in various properties he’s lived in over the years

 

[vivienbee]

In response to people posting who they would have RB played in a film, to me he looks a lot like the guy from ‘Pie in the Sky’ (unfortunately the actor has passed away though). The resemblance is uncanny.

Richard Griffiths

I knew him briefly, and I think he would have got a good chuckle out of this.

 

[F.Knab]

yes sorry I shouldn't have assumed that all people had computers in the 90s.

I should have clarified that many families had computer access quite easily from the late 80's. Going on personal experience here , everyone I knew had computers in homes in the 80s - then there is public library access.

Given that RB had a long history of various dealings and that they had teenagers living through the 80s and 90s it would be VERY feasible to assume that they had a computer. IMO

But someone did point out earlier they did have a computer but RB didnt use it. I will have to revisit that long drawn out testimony of DdeH.

No one in Australia had computers in their homes in the 80's, in fact I can't think of a single friend or family member that had a computer in their home in the 90's up until 1997 when I left Australia.. When I returned to Australia in 2002 computers were more prevalent. If DdH had a computer in the home in 1997 I'll eat my hat.

 

[vivienbee]

No one in Australia had computers in their homes in the 80's, in fact I can't think of a single friend or family member that had a computer in their home in the 90's up until 1997 when I left Australia.. When I returned to Australia in 2002 computers were more prevalent. If DdH had a computer in the home in 1997 I'll eat my hat.

I'm from England, but I had a computer in my house in 1997. From memory, however, it mostly featured AOL and CD games.

 

[Estelle]

I think this is very plausible - but the only question is why the second car in Australia if DDH and RB are in on it together?

I can only think that maybe they were well-known in the other car in Ballina/Byron Bay so they used the second car for any devious deeds to avoid detection.

 

[DK007]

Maybe one of many reasons he stopped or slowed down his con artistry ways is roughly 10 years ago, everything started to slowly shift to online this making it harder for him to forge or falsify documents, ID passports licences etc.. eg passports and licences images measure your face structure and eyes and pupils etc.. IMO.. he’s not Tech savy…

 

[vivienbee]

Maybe one of many reasons he stopped or slowed down his con artistry ways is roughly 10 years ago, everything started to slowly shift to online this making it harder for him to forge or falsify documents, ID passports licences etc.. eg passports and licences measure your face structure and eyes and pupils etc.. IMO.. he’s not Tech savy…

Also, by then he would have been in his 70s. I'm all for age being just a number but he doesn't seem the most agile. No matter how much of a smooth talker you are, it would be hard to dump someone at the station and hotfoot it overseas if you're hobbling around with a walker.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

I don't understand how what myself and others have been doing for 3.5 years (reading every word, answering questions, and sharing our own work and research on this thread) is suddenly not considered 'working together' or collaborating

There is a bigger picture. Practically speaking, keeping one up-to-date official timeline that includes every person ever involved in this case, pinned to the thread is unrealistic and a legal nightmare.

Who will create it? Who is going to check it for accuracy? Who is going to add the source for every single piece of information listed, as is required by WS TOS? Who is going to update it whenever there is something new or wrong or irrelevant? Who will determine what facts are right, wrong and irrelevant? Will every sleuth be notified when changes are made? Or will each sleuth be responsible for keeping themselves updated with changes? (Sounds like what we're currently doing.)

Also, private threads are against the rules, so how will sleuths discuss the creation and maintenance of the document? Or will it all be openly posted in the thread? (Sounds like what we're currently doing.)

On top of that, having an official timeline 'endorsed' by WS would be a legal nightmare. As mentioned earlier, we can't go around officially declaring people as suspects and perpetrators. Calling someone out may severely impact the legal process and a conviction. Everything on here is speculation, IMO and MOO, so how much can we actually reveal in a public official document? Not much. Media do it but they only publish selected information, they are trained to use careful wording, and they get legal advice before publishing anything crime related.

Maybe enjoying the chats, continuing to collaborate, and keeping our own records is reasonable after all.

I am sorry if anyone feels lost and confused. We are all still very confused. Even the people who take good notes. The confusion is what inspired most of us to keep thorough notes and ensure we read pages we missed. Because there isn't, and never will be, once source of truth in true crime.

 

[centred]

Yes, another reason for the ridiculously unbelievable stories is that you can see he's trying really hard to make out he hasn't made any money from his coin business, as he's on the pension at the same time. He's weaving crazy webs so he doesn't get investigated for pension fraud. I, personally, think that's the least of his worries!

Absolutely part of it ....
And as far as the least of his worries and the fact he is being questioned in regards to a missing person and her possible death has completely escaped him, does make me question whether he really didn't know she was missing and had anything to do with that on that level until more recent because he has nothing to be concerned about other then being copped for fraud etc

he is not trying to prove he didn't do anything to her for her to be never seen again and the only reasonable explanation at this stage considering what he is doing in court IMO

 

[Estelle]

You are all amazing. This is the best thread I’ve ever followed. Thank you! What @TheCoolestNeopian wrote really grabbed me. I’m not a sleuth, but I am a former fiction writer. Ric Blum is the perfect character and what we know of him makes a lot of narrative sense to me, meaning it resembles the plot of a well-written thriller. Sadly, in this narrative, Marion is just one of many women hurt by RB. I think @TheCoolestNeopian hit on an important point by outlining the differences in Marion’s situation. This Marion Difference is, I believe, key. Based on all of your posts, the following Marion story is my take.

—

RB lands in Australia a petty criminal and low-grade swindler. He has a European police record, and Australia offers distance and new identities. It also offers the colonials’ love of a European accent. He quickly learns that people fall for his tales, bravado, and schemes based on bits and pieces of knowledge. What comes first? The personal ads or the cons he dreamed up? We may never know, but he quickly learns that needy, middle-aged women are easy prey. There are plenty of failures, but with each one, RB learns something and hones his skills.

Since RB believes he is smarter than everyone in Australia, he eventually figures out how to prey “legally” with no provable wrongdoing. The key is getting women to willingly hand over things. Money, property, jewelry, coins, furniture. RB gets bolder. He creates a scheme to separate his victims from their safety zones. If he takes them to Europe, Bali, Korea— any place else— they will be even more vulnerable. He settles on the UK, where he once lived. There he can carry the con to its conclusion by acting the tour guide and bon vivant, then vanish back to Australia and a different name. Exactly the way outlaws in the American West rode out to vanish in a faraway canyon or a lawless county.

Along comes Marion. There is no doubt in my mind she answered the FR personal, and that sealed her fate. She is the perfect mark. How RB groomed her! He’d learned so much. The school receives his fake calls about MB’s misconduct, and RB consoles her. Tells her she’s too smart to be a teacher. Encourages her dreams of European travel and then eventually, her dream of marriage and life in Luxembourg. Would they open a school, sell furniture, make millions in the coin business? The sky’s the limit.

The trip is planned. The furniture shipped to Luxembourg (or ??), the house sold, the tickets bought. Marion and RB arrive in UK, and immediately the trip is disappointing. Marion tells RB she changed her name. He’s stunned and punishes her by cancelling the Orient Express trip. But the real kicker is that Marion either didn’t follow instructions to make her house money available in the UK or she thought she had, but with her name change or other anomoly, she is unable to perform the funds transfer as planned.

(to be continued)

Interesting. I have always assumed that Marion changed her name at his bequest. I had never thought she would have thought of doing that on her own without telling him before he left Australia. But you could be right in saying that because he would have made sure she changed the rest of her documents as well so the transfer of funds overseas would then have been possible.
However, I would thought that Marion would have kept her old passport and deed poll application details so she could prove she was that same person.

Also had RB built up the fantasy of Marion being Mrs Remakel so much in her mind that she decided to change her name before she left Australia so that when they arrived to book into a hotel, she would be treated as if she was the wife rather than the lover? I remember when I was in my 20s travelling with a guy in Greece that they were really shocked when I had a different surname to my travel companion. I used to wear a ring so that people would think we were married.

But otherwise, I assumed that RB would have been the one to motivate Marion to change her name
so she would not be easily traced.

 

[KeenSleuth17]

Marion said they met at the arts center (or through a friend there?)— That might be closest to the truth.

He targeted JO b/c he knew her husband and knew they were just separated. He’s also mentioned books/book fairs on several occasions. It’s possible he knew FR from his bookstore and when he learned FR & MC separated he targeted a newly vulnerable MC (my theory). A similar (through a friend) connection could be how he targeted Marion. OR maybe he learned of her from a newspaper story of her teaching award and called her with an invented a story of having a mutual friend at the arts center. He could have easily called and said “ I knew your husband years ago. We met at a soccer clinic in Switzerland. Blah blah….

Anyhow, just saying I’d put the most “likely to be true” weight on something Marion said—Even if she didn’t give all the details.

I also think Marion was aware her decisions were impulsive and likely to be ridiculed by her family—this is my theory of why she kept it all secret.

Isnt it possible that he attended a coin show or fair AT the actual Arts Centre? like this one? Coin & Currency Show Jan. 15-16 at Foley Civic Center -

I wonder if there’s a way to access where and when the coin fairs were held on the GC at that time.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

which branch did Marion frequent ordinarily before she sold her house?

The Colonial State Bank in Ashmore.

 

[vivienbee]

I don't understand how what myself and others have been doing for 3.5 years (reading every word, answering questions, and sharing our own hard work and research on this thread) is suddenly not considered 'working together' or collaborating. Wow, that's sad

I'm not sure if this is directed at me? If it is, I can only apologise again. I wasn't suggesting that anything was pinned on WS or updated, I just use a google doc for collaborative stuff at work and it occurred to me that it might work in this instance. Obviously I was wrong about that. I'll be the first person to say that the hard work and research that everyone, including you, has put into creating and sharing timelines with us all is incredible and one of my favourite parts of this community. I love being here. I love chatting with you all, and having a laugh when it's appropriate. The only reason I took offence was because I thought the tone of your original post was quite patronising and mocking, and to be honest it upset me because I thought I'd created conflict when none was intended. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but that's how it came across to me. If you'd just said, "that isn't going to work, and here's why", I would never have mentioned anything in the first place. I think we should just draw a line under it and move on because there's no hard feelings on my end. I just wanted to explain. I agree with your stance and the points you've made.

 

[vivienbee]

(I would've sent a PM but you have messages turned off.)

 

[mishy66]

y

No one in Australia had computers in their homes in the 80's, in fact I can't think of a single friend or family member that had a computer in their home in the 90's up until 1997 when I left Australia.. When I returned to Australia in 2002 computers were more prevalent. If DdH had a computer in the home in 1997 I'll eat my hat.

Yeah many did. I worked in the industry.

 

[Estelle]

I think Marion must have returned to Australia.

It can't be Diane using Marion's passport, they have school age kids, one who is 16, who would be looking after them if she went overseas, and who's passport would she use to leave? That can't have been the plan.

1. I predict that police have questioned their children about when their parents went overseas. What about the school holidays in 1997? Son might have said he wasn't living at home and daughter could have said that she went to a swimming camp so she stayed elsewhere. They then remember their mother going away for a short time to stay with a friend and their father going overseas then on business or to see his family.

2. IMO RB would have easily been able to organise another passport for DdH in another name using fake documents. Police asked her if she had ever changed her name? I found that very telling.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

(I would've sent a PM but you have messages turned off.)

It's all good, I appreciate it

 

[Estelle]

I thought that JO said he told her to go to an agent of some kind (she couldn’t remember the name of the place) and they would help her book her flight home for around the end of the month.
She didn’t do that, with the help of her cousin she arranged her flight herself soon after the phone call. I would’ve thought they’d dig further into that.

All flights are heavily booked in December and January and very expensive. That's why he booked a return flight and only a one way for her. I suspect that he assumed she would not be able to get a flight for a while and that she would not have enough money to pay for it so she would wait for a cheaper flight perhaps in February.

 

[vivienbee]

If DDH really didn't know about most of this, can you imagine the convo they're having if she stayed at home and watched the inquest?
"So, quick question...is a single thing you told me about your entire life over the last fifty years true? No? Cool, cool, cool. Can you pass the remote?"

 

[ElaineS]

This is an intriguing case which is just starting to gain some traction due to her daughter's relentless efforts.

Here is the facebook page:

Missing Person Marion Barter

...and a just released podcast 'The Lady Vanishes'

Left Behind | The Lady Vanishes on acast

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