Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[TootsieFootsie]

RB does have a very distinctive nose.

 

[gymtonic]

I am fascinated by this question also! When RB lies, what is he trying to hide?

A bit of long excerpt from Wikipedia here but I think we can see the stages of the scam that fit:
Stages
In Confessions of a Confidence Man, Edward H. Smith lists the "six definite steps or stages of growth" of a confidence game.[7] He notes that some steps may be omitted. It is also possible some can be done in a different order than the one shown or carried out simultaneously.

Foundation work
Preparations are made in advance of the game, including the hiring of any assistants required and studying the background knowledge needed for the role.
Approach
The victim is approached or contacted.
Build-up
The victim is given an opportunity to profit from participating in a scheme. The victim's greed is encouraged, such that their rational judgment of the situation might be impaired.
Pay-off or convincer
The victim receives a small payout as a demonstration of the scheme's purported effectiveness. This may be a real amount of money or faked in some way (including physically or electronically). In a gambling con, the victim is allowed to win several small bets. In a stock market con, the victim is given fake dividends.
The "hurrah"
A sudden manufactured crisis or change of events forces the victim to act or make a decision immediately. This is the point at which the con succeeds or fails. With a financial scam, the con artist may tell the victim that the "window of opportunity" to make a large investment in the scheme is about to suddenly close forever.
The in-and-in
A conspirator (in on the con, but assumes the role of an interested bystander) puts an amount of money into the same scheme as the victim, to add an appearance of legitimacy. This can reassure the victim, and give the con man greater control when the deal has been completed.
In addition, some games require a "corroboration" step, particularly those involving a fake, but purportedly "rare item" of "great value". This usually includes the use of an accomplice who plays the part of an uninvolved (initially skeptical) third party, who later confirms the claims made by the con man.[7]

 

[gymtonic]

I am fascinated by this question also! When RB lies, what is he trying to hide?

A bit of long excerpt from Wikipedia here but I think we can see the stages of the scam that fit:
Stages
In Confessions of a Confidence Man, Edward H. Smith lists the "six definite steps or stages of growth" of a confidence game.[7] He notes that some steps may be omitted. It is also possible some can be done in a different order than the one shown or carried out simultaneously.

Foundation work
Preparations are made in advance of the game, including the hiring of any assistants required and studying the background knowledge needed for the role.
Approach
The victim is approached or contacted.
Build-up
The victim is given an opportunity to profit from participating in a scheme. The victim's greed is encouraged, such that their rational judgment of the situation might be impaired.
Pay-off or convincer
The victim receives a small payout as a demonstration of the scheme's purported effectiveness. This may be a real amount of money or faked in some way (including physically or electronically). In a gambling con, the victim is allowed to win several small bets. In a stock market con, the victim is given fake dividends.
The "hurrah"
A sudden manufactured crisis or change of events forces the victim to act or make a decision immediately. This is the point at which the con succeeds or fails. With a financial scam, the con artist may tell the victim that the "window of opportunity" to make a large investment in the scheme is about to suddenly close forever.
The in-and-in
A conspirator (in on the con, but assumes the role of an interested bystander) puts an amount of money into the same scheme as the victim, to add an appearance of legitimacy. This can reassure the victim, and give the con man greater control when the deal has been completed.
In addition, some games require a "corroboration" step, particularly those involving a fake, but purportedly "rare item" of "great value". This usually includes the use of an accomplice who plays the part of an uninvolved (initially skeptical) third party, who later confirms the claims made by the con man.[7]

 

[gymtonic]

I am fascinated by this question also! When RB lies, what is he trying to hide?

As well as: when he volunteers new (often convoluted, incorrect or anachronistic) information, is this misdirection and if so, from what and why?

 

[mishy66]

For those new here, this is Occam's Razor, explained clearly and simply in the first minute and a half.

We typically start with a theory, then over time, new information arises, so we twist and contort everything we already thought we knew or were attached to, to fit the new information. This is when things get more complex than is probably needed. Occam's Razor is a way to peel everything back and get you to consider the most obvious and straight forward option.

Thanks @Peralta This is a great reminder.

 

[mishy66]

Well now I know that, there is no way that RB could have signed IR's death certificate so RB was not MJR.

 

[StarrChance]

Well now I know that, there is no way that RB could have signed IR's death certificate so RB was not MJR.

Did MJR marry IW in Hungary or Belgium?

Budapest Hungary
Age 23 years

I don’t know why but I’m unable to copy the certificate, tried many times!

 

[JLZ]

As well as: when he volunteers new (often convoluted, incorrect or anachronistic) information, is this misdirection and if so, from what and why?

I think he has a bunch of stories that he tells. He remembers the stories but he may not remember the details out of order. He wants to get back to the comfort of telling his familiar stories. He's practised at dealing with the queries that come up at various stages of the story, usually with emotional manipulations. It's awkward when someone is asking questions that jump between the stories or tries to relate them to things that actually happened. Like, you know the alphabet, but when someone asks what's the nineteenth letter, or what is three letters before such-and-such, you might have to start back and recite through the series to find out. But it seems like a lot of irrelevant detail to the person asking.

 

[mishy66]

Budapest Hungary
Age 23 years

I don’t know why but I’m unable to copy the certificate, tried many times!

Probably been talked about before but is there any records of IK brother ?

 

[mishy66]

RB does have a very distinctive nose.

I just love this Q with your avatar picture ! It made me laugh out loud!

 

[Estelle]

Budapest Hungary
Age 23 years

I don’t know why but I’m unable to copy the certificate, tried many times!

Was IW 23yo?

What year was it? 1970???

 

[Estelle]

Probably been talked about before but is there any records of IK brother ?

Does she have a brother?

 

[mishy66]

Was IW 23yo?

What year was it? 1970???

I was looking at that too !!!

1970 Ilona married in Budapest Hungary to MJR (Reid)
Age 23 years – MUST BE PRIOR TO HER MAY 11 BIRTHDAY THEN?
To MJR – Michael John Reid

 

[Estelle]

So between Feb 1970 and May birthday in 1970 despite having a few months old baby IW has been able to go out and meet a Hungarian with an English sounding name or an Australian man in those three months??? Perhaps and Australian met she met in Sydney flew over there to marry her?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

RB does have a very distinctive nose.

It's possible he needed surgery because it simply grew too long

 

[mishy66]

A couple of things are driving me nuts.

If WW flies out with IK to gain his residency and is staying with IK for the time needed to get resident status and then they both head home together - now 'not married' - would it be conceivable that given WW needs an Aust Residency and IK is also wanting to eventually settle in Aust and is here to find work to help pay for her family to come out, that is why they came over together? ( Her not realising until she is here that she is pregnant so that puts a spanner in the works maybe!)

WW offers to 'chaperone' her helping to set up ( more to set himself up!)
And that they knew each other through IK brother??
Maybe WW and the brother worked together ? ( I just love that he puts Euro Manager as work ) He has never left that job it seems!

As someone pointed out, he states on his application for aust res, that he was living with IK parents address from 1967 to 1969

 

[mishy66]

So between Feb 1970 and May birthday in 1973 despite having a few months old baby IW has been able to go out and meet a Hungarian with an English sounding name or an Australian man in those three months??? Perhaps and Australian met she met in Sydney flew over there to marry her?

I am still sticking with she was already pregnant before she arrived and didn't know. MJR was already in the picture in Hungary

 

[mishy66]

Does she have a brother?

Yes it says so on her application.
Has anyone posted details of him?
I used the search bar but couldnt find anything - that means nothing though, I am not that great at finding previous posts ha!

 

[Estelle]

A couple of things are driving me nuts.

If WW flies out with IK to gain his residency and is staying with IK for the time needed to get resident status and then they both head home together - now 'not married' - would it be conceivable that given WW needs an Aust Residency and IK is also wanting to eventually settle in Aust and is here to find work to help pay for her family to come out, that is why they came over together? ( Her not realising until she is here that she is pregnant so that puts a spanner in the works maybe!)

WW offers to 'chaperone' her helping to set up ( more to set himself up!)
And that they knew each other through IK brother??
Maybe WW and the brother worked together ? ( I just love that he puts Euro Manager as work ) He has never left that job it seems!

As someone pointed out, he states on his application for aust res, that he was living with IK parents address from 1967 to 1969

Where is the evidence that IK had a brother? I must have missed that.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I haven’t delved into the RB/IK relationship but if she died in a violent accident such as a car crash wouldn’t there be a news article of it at the time?