GUILTY Australia - Morgan Huxley, 31, stabbed to death, Neutral Bay, NSW, 8 Sept 2013 #3

[Trixie Belden82]

Also, IMHO whether not MH invited/agreed to let DK into his bedroom for sex although relevant is not SALIENT, what is perhaps IMO is more relevant is whether DK had been awaiting his chance to take advantage of his victim and commit a violent murder, e.g. he was a dishwasher was he not, he had no need to carry a chefs kit (as has been reported in MSM)

 

[enzeder]

DJK was also, allegedly, seen on security footage standing outside Crust Pizza, cnr Gosvenor Lane and Ben Boyd Road opposite the Oaks Hotel. Creepy.

Other security footage from the same night allegedly shows Kelsall standing outside Crust Pizza, directly opposite The Oaks Hotel's Ben Boyd Road entrance, which Huxley was seen leaving from about 1.30am.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...iel-jack-kelsall/story-fni0cx12-1226736458021

Photo
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...iel-jack-kelsall/story-fni0cx12-1226736458021

 

[SouthAussie]

Also, IMHO whether not MH invited/agreed to let DK into his bedroom for sex although relevant is not SALIENT, what is perhaps IMO is more relevant is whether DK had been awaiting his chance to take advantage of his victim and commit a violent murder, e.g. he was a dishwasher was he not, he had no need to carry a chefs kit (as has been reported in MSM)

If you are refering to my post Trixie, all I said was .... "sexual activity, confined to the bedroom, Morgan pacing back and forth on the pavement, Morgan calling two friends for late-night company that night without success, Morgan being found with just a tshirt on". And I think they are salient facts. JMO

And we still do not know what was in the satchel being called his chef's kit. Could be just books for all we know. There has been a lot of speculation that he was carrying knives around, but we just don't know that for sure. The weapon could just as easily have come from Morgan's bedroom.

 

[SouthAussie]

Another thing I have been pondering is how much of a liar DJK actually is. I know that he exaggerated his position at work, but that could be attributed to one symptom of schizoaffective disorder (as per my post and links above) which is ‘exaggerated self-esteem’.

He also said that he saw a female entering Morgan’s flat, and maybe he did, he may have seen JR returning home as he was walking away down the street, or hiding close by trying to figure out what to do with the weapon.

None of the symptoms listed include compulsive lying (although, of course, it could be a personality trait).

Not saying he hasn’t been lying, but he seemed pretty open about himself as lamant, posting photos and seemingly factual information, at least how he perceives/knows it.

And MSM reported that he hasn’t been talking to the police.

Just a thought ….

 

[Brightbird]

As per my previous post stating 'a 2008 review found that an overwhelming number of reported violent criminals with AS had coexisting psychiatric disorders such as schizoaffective disorder', it appears that symptoms of schizoaffective disorder can include:

apathy, increased social and sexual activity, rapid thoughts and speech, reduced need for sleep, risky behaviours, impulsive behaviours, and quick changes between mood states such as happiness to anger

Symptoms of the disorder usually begin in early adulthood.

http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoaffective_disorder
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Schizoaffective_disorder

I'm going from memory of what I've learnt doing psychology so this is as good as my memory (i.e. pretty dodgy). Someone with Schizoaffective disorder has met psychotic symptom criteria for schizophrenia and either unipolar depression or bipolar disorder. But the symptoms of schizophrenia have to occur for a period of time without co-occurring mood symptoms, and the mood symptoms have to occur with symptoms of schizophrenia.

So a person with Schizoaffective, bipolar type, would sometimes have symptoms of schizophrenia only, sometimes have a manic episode on top of schizophrenia symptoms, and sometimes have a depressive episode on top of schizophrenia symptoms. Schizoaffective disorder, depressive type, has no manic episodes.

Um, not sure what my point is other than it's a complicated diagnosis as you can imagine. It requires multiple episodes to work out whether it is a mood disorder with psychotic features, schizoaffective, or schizophrenia. I doubt even his psychiatrist knows what he has at age 20, let alone us here on WS. But it's interesting to wonder, that's for sure.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Thanks for your input, it really helps to have a legal mind around. Are you referring to diminished responsibility because of mental illness? Like hypothetically, if he thought he was a character in his favourite story and Morgan was an evil villain and killing him was going to banish all homophobia from the world. Or something equally as far fetched. Then it could be argued (with a supporting psych eval) he was so out of touch with reality, he didn't really know right from wrong. That could put him in a forensic unit indefinitely.

But what sort of things might defence use to argue for a lesser sentence, or shorter non-parole, if he is convicted of murder? Another totally hypothetical example, could the defence argue that his Aspberger's makes him misunderstand people's intentions and something Morgan did or said sent him into a rage and he started stabbing him on an impulse? Or if he has really poor coping skills for interpersonal difficulties like rejection? I suppose I'm wondering if the defence could argue for a lesser sentence, based on his prospects for mental health rehabilitation. Depending on what his assessments show. Could they go for manslaughter even, and argue there was no premeditation? Can you stab someone to death and get manslaughter?

Sorry, jumping way ahead I know. He hasn't even entered a plea so it's way too early to discuss sentencing. Feel free to ignore my questions as rhetorical. Typing as I'm thinking and now I don't want to delete it all, lol. I think I've arrived at the conclusion that different factors will weigh in for conviction vs. sentencing. Talk about racing thoughts...ropeller:

Yes, diminished responsibility. It's a minefield.
Provocation as a defence covers the situation of the victim saying or doing something to trigger the reaction. Used a lot in battered wife cases where they kill the husband. As with self defence as a defence, the response has to be appropriate to the situation and not excessive.
In an interstate case years ago the wife tried to use the provocation defence - i.e. no pre-meditation. Unfortunately for her police were able to prove a grave had been prepared for the husband.

Hard to speculate on anything else without seeing the evidence, brief will be served on 8 January.
Also, the prosecutor did indicate that they expected some delay before all results from the autopsy would be available - Magistrate agreed that that was normal.
An early guilty plea is usually the best way to mitigate the length of the sentence. JMO

 

[Trixie Belden82]

If you are refering to my post Trixie, all I said was .... "sexual activity, confined to the bedroom, Morgan pacing back and forth on the pavement, Morgan calling two friends for late-night company that night without success, Morgan being found with just a tshirt on". And I think they are salient facts. JMO

And we still do not know what was in the satchel being called his chef's kit. Could be just books for all we know.

No South Aussie I promise wasn't! :twocents: Just thinking "aloud." What I was trying to say was that its not a crime to have engaged in gay sex with a stranger, its what happened very directly after..and if it was directly after or even "at the time/during" as LE was quoted in MSM as being a possibilty due to evidence at the scene, this would possibly point towards a degree of premeditation?

 

[SouthAussie]

LB please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that premeditation can be seconds before committing a murder. The fact that a person doesn't remove their hands from someone's neck when choking them, can be a form of premeditated thinking .. because they know that if they continue to choke them they will/may die.

 

[Ausgirl]

I actually think it would -not- necessarily be obvious to anyone that a sexual assault had occurred. Especially if it wasn't penetrative, for sure - and not all sex crimes are penetrative, eh.

If there was male sperm (DNA comes from many sources, dunnit) in Morgan's room, I'd want to know where it was found, exactly, and to whom it actually belonged (if not Morgan) before assuming any kind of sex had gone on, let alone consensual when there's a dead victim with 28 knife wounds involved.

If they haven't taken DJK's DNA, then why not? If there was evidence of male on male sex in the room, is that not probably among the first things the police would want to do, to help establish what went on and who did what?

As for whether sex (if indeed any occurred) might be consensual or not - for sure, I'd find that relevant to a man being slaughtered in his room. It'd speak toward possible motive, for one..

 

[Trixie Belden82]

LB please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that premeditation can be seconds before committing a murder. The fact that a person doesn't remove their hands from someone's neck when choking them, can be a form of premeditated thinking .. because they know that if they continue to choke them they will/may die.

I agree absolutely South Aussie, premeditation or not, the intent to kill and the going through with the intent shows premeditation to me, no matter how long it was thought out. However, correct me if I'm wrong, (I'm no legal expert!) but "crimes of passion" (committed in anger/sexual jealousy) tend to get lesser sentences. I hope that a pre-existing condition doesn't let this happen in this case.

 

[SouthAussie]

As for whether sex (if indeed any occurred) might be consensual or not - for sure, I'd find that relevant to a man being slaughtered in his room. It'd speak toward possible motive, for one..

There was some kind of evidence of sexual activity - with some kind of booty call (perhaps).

"In what they say may have been a "booty call" gone wrong, investigators have revealed Mr Huxley had taken part in sexual activity shortly before being stabbed 28 times."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ty-call8217-link/story-fni0cx12-1226724417519

 

[Trixie Belden82]

I actually think it would -not- necessarily be obvious to anyone that a sexual assault had occurred. Especially if it wasn't penetrative, for sure - and not all sex crimes are penetrative, eh.

If there was male sperm (DNA comes from many sources, dunnit) in Morgan's room, I'd want to know where it was found, exactly, and to whom it actually belonged (if not Morgan) before assuming any kind of sex had gone on, let alone consensual when there's a dead victim with 28 knife wounds involved.

If they haven't taken DJK's DNA, then why not? If there was evidence of male on male sex in the room, is that not probably among the first things the police would want to do, to help establish what went on and who did what?

As for whether sex (if indeed any occurred) might be consensual or not - for sure, I'd find that relevant to a man being slaughtered in his room. It'd speak toward possible motive, for one..

Quite right. Its entirely possible that non-consensual sexual activity took place without it being immediately evident. However, I'm still bewildered by why the information about MH having recently engaged in sexual intercourse/naked from the waist down/being aroused was released by LE. It seems like evidence that we/the MSM didn't need to know immediately. Can someone explain this to a layperson? LB? I get that the police release certain info to get more info, but this seems highly sensitive information?

 

[LegallyBrunette]

LB please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that premeditation can be seconds before committing a murder. The fact that a person doesn't remove their hands from someone's neck when choking them, can be a form of premeditated thinking .. because they know that if they continue to choke them they will/may die.

The mental element - 'mens rea' - of the offence doesn't need to have weeks of planning. It's an intent, the carrying out of the intent, the physical element, is the 'actus reus'.

Your example is interesting, reminds me of a certain celebrity cook in the UK and her now ex-husband, while out for a meal at their favourite restaurant.
Fortunately he let go.

 

[Ausgirl]

There was some kind of evidence of sexual activity - with some kind of booty call (perhaps).

"In what they say may have been a "booty call" gone wrong, investigators have revealed Mr Huxley had taken part in sexual activity shortly before being stabbed 28 times."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ty-call8217-link/story-fni0cx12-1226724417519

That's true, SA - but that was when the cops were also looking for a female perp.

They have not said, to my knowledge, that there's evidence of male + male sex.

In fact, that the cops are saying they don't believe Morgan had homosexual tendencies - and have not taken DJK's DNA! (which I assumed would have been done..) sort of makes me wonder if there's any foreign male sperm in evidence at all.

 

[SouthAussie]

AG - I guess I'm just adding up 2+2 (and maybe making 5, but I don't think so) because the activity happened shortly before being stabbed 28 times, according to investigators.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Quite right. Its entirely possible that non-consensual sexual activity took place without it being immediately evident. However, I'm still bewildered by why the information about MH having recently engaged in sexual intercourse/naked from the waist down/being aroused was released by LE. It seems like evidence that we/the MSM didn't need to know immediately. Can someone explain this to a layperson? LB? I get that the police release certain info to get more info, but this seems highly sensitive information?

I think it is what it is. And in the early days of the investigation they were thinking a female sexual partner. There are many other murders where the details are equally sensitive and distressing but they don't get the same publicity. Jill Meagher's case is the female equivalent of this one. That poor girl had all her private details out there.
Unfortunately the victims don't have much dignity even in death.

If police hadn't released the bedroom details of this case it would have appeared as a robbery gone wrong - and directed the focus of the public towards an entirely different type of offender. IYKWIM

 

[LegallyBrunette]

That's true, SA - but that was when the cops were also looking for a female perp.

They have not said, to my knowledge, that there's evidence of male + male sex.

In fact, that the cops are saying they don't believe Morgan had homosexual tendencies - and have not taken DJK's DNA! (which I assumed would have been done..) sort of makes me wonder if there's any foreign male sperm in evidence at all.

In case you missed my previous post - police hadn't taken DNA because they needed a court order or the accused's consent, which was attended to in the court today.

 

[Trixie Belden82]

If you recall our previous discussion/confusion regarding the reason for "just a t-shirt" its possible that the reason they haven't bothered to take DKs DNA to date is that the sex was "one sided" and the reason they are saying they have never "suggested MH had homosexual tendencies" is maybe...partly sensitivity towards the victim and his family in light of the information that was put out to the media initially when they thought it was a female perp JMHO

 

[Ausgirl]

Or.. maybe there was no sex involved on Morgan's behalf..

LB, sorry, I misread your post, I think, I didn't the see the part where they needed a court order.

Took their time, though, didn't they? It's been weeks since they ID'd him as a suspect.

 

[SouthAussie]

If you recall our previous discussion/confusion regarding the reason for "just a t-shirt" its possible that the reason they haven't bothered to take DKs DNA to date is that the sex was "one sided" and the reason they are saying they have never "suggested MH had homosexual tendencies" is maybe...partly sensitivity towards the victim and his family in light of the information that was put out to the media initially when they thought it was a female perp JMHO

I think that the police want everyone to know that they have never suggested that (very careful and accurate wording on their part) as they have no current proof of who was part of the sexual activity shortly before Morgan was stabbed 28 times.

I guess only time, and DNA, will tell.