Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 Mar 2020 #6 *charges*

[Kemug]

Makes me wonder how helpful the accused family has been. You would think IMO that they would have some idea what happened to a something that size, that was in the families possession and now isn't. I would certainly ask my SO what happened to our trailer

Or possibly it was only in hindsight that a family member or members realised that something was suspicious.

 

[JBowie]

I guess the trailer is not that significant anymore if he gave up the bodies.

IMO, police will usually find and link every piece of evidence that they can to fortify their case. The prosecution has to convince the jury of guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Presenting a mountain of evidence to support their case is prudent. Even so-called 'water tight' cases can fail on a technicality.

 

[stacey_victoria]

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/crime/crucial-clue-still-missing-in-campers-murder-case/news-story/ccbbcc59f089cafbc8e1a19369d0337e

Looks like they still haven't found the trailer

Damn.
We had hoped that they had found one but it must not have been it.

 

[stacey_victoria]

I guess the trailer is not that significant anymore if he gave up the bodies.

I respectfully disagree. It could still hold vital clues/evidence. And as JBowie said, it is still a piece of evidence in itself.

 

[JudgeJudi]

This is extremely unpleasant, but how would bones get to be fragmented? And what happened to the flesh?

Fire causes the soft tissues to contract which causes the skin to tear and the fat and muscles to shrink. The internal organs will also shrink. When bodies are burned, the bones become discoloured, brittle, and highly fragmented. Recovery efforts can damage the fragments further.

Killers often use fire in order to:

• totally destroy the body​
• destroy features allowing for victim identification (e.g., facial features or fingerprints), or​
• destroy evidence related to the circumstances of death.​

 

[JudgeJudi]

Victoria Police told the Herald Sun they were looking into a theory that the trailer may have been sold online between March and July 2020.

Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was cut up with an oxy torch and sold at various places for scrap, or scattered in a deep river.

I would have thought that if Gumtree had an archive of ads placed covering the period concerned, then by now that information would have been retrieved by police.

Police have renewed the search for the missing trailer that could have been used to transport the bodies. They hold a theory that that it was advertised on Gumtree online but haven't ruled out the possibility it was sold elsewhere.

Link

 

[JudgeJudi]

Can anyone tell me how to look up the court date for Greg Lynn's committal hearing / trial. I saw in a media report 31st May was mentioned and I presume that will be in Sale. I have looked on the various court websites but have not been able to find what I am looking for.

thanks for the info, the link does not show any detail just blanks that need to be filled in. what search details did you use?

This link will work for you ... no blanks.

EFAS

 

[JudgeJudi]

I stumbled across a great video today. The guy is planning to go motorbiking with some Tassie mates on this route and this is a test drive in his 4WD to give them an idea of what the area is like. He starts filming from Howitt Road just north of Licola and is planning to drive to the Wonnangatta Valley via Zeka Spur and Wombat Range Tracks.

He first turns in the Zeka Spur, reaches the Wonnangatta Myrtleford turnoff which heads north. Next is the Wombat Range track. Note how slowly he drives (in second gear) and that’s without a trailer. He turns off the Crooked River Track onto Crooked River Road. It’s about 38ks to Dargo.

From time to time he used a drone and the quality of the footage is excellent. It gives fantastic views of the area including some that were fire affected.

Zeka spur, Wonnangatta Myrtleford turnoff & Wombat Range track

 

[mrjitty]

IMO, police will usually find and link every piece of evidence that they can to fortify their case. The prosecution has to convince the jury of guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Presenting a mountain of evidence to support their case is prudent. Even so-called 'water tight' cases can fail on a technicality.

While that is true, it seems in this case the accused gave up the location of the bodies, therefore it can be simply inferred that he transported the victims from one location to the other.

So while it would be best to have the trailer, as a practical matter, I can understand if they don't scour the earth to find it.

 

[mrjitty]

I stumbled across a great video today. The guy is planning to go motorbiking with some Tassie mates on this route and this is a test drive in his 4WD to give them an idea of what the area is like. He starts filming from Howitt Road just north of Licola and is planning to drive to the Wonnangatta Valley via Zeka Spur and Wombat Range Tracks.

He first turns in the Zeka Spur, reaches the Wonnangatta Myrtleford turnoff which heads north. Next is the Wombat Range track. Note how slowly he drives (in second gear) and that’s without a trailer. He turns off the Crooked River Track onto Crooked River Road. It’s about 38ks to Dargo.

From time to time he used a drone and the quality of the footage is excellent. It gives fantastic views of the area including some that were fire affected.

Zeka spur, Wonnangatta Myrtleford turnoff & Wombat Range track

Thanks JJ

Fairly entry level driving - but you'd need to be careful at night with the trailer

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Can anyone post a link where it says that that GL told the police where the bodies were, because I don't recall reading that.

 

[mrjitty]

Can anyone post a link where it says that that GL told the police where the bodies were, because I don't recall reading that.

I believe we inferred it at the time (how else did the police go straight to the disposal site), and since confirmed by the verified insider

 

[JudgeJudi]

I guess the trailer is not that significant anymore if he gave up the bodies.

IMO, police will usually find and link every piece of evidence that they can to fortify their case. The prosecution has to convince the jury of guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Presenting a mountain of evidence to support their case is prudent. Even so-called 'water tight' cases can fail on a technicality.

While that is true, it seems in this case the accused gave up the location of the bodies, therefore it can be simply inferred that he transported the victims from one location to the other.

So while it would be best to have the trailer, as a practical matter, I can understand if they don't scour the earth to find it.

Hi mrjitty, It’s good to see you here. You know that circumstantial cases are like strands in a cable. Each piece of information is not particularly damning, but like a piece of cord, all the strands of evidence together make a strong case. IMO admitting that he transported the bodies to a particular location isn’t the same as confessing to killing them. Let’s see how he pleads, but at this stage, I believe that every bit of evidence is important and that includes placing him near the scene of the crime.

The blue car and trailer were seen by multiple witnesses near the area of the campsite around the time that RH made his HF radio call which ended at 18:40, and he was never heard from again. Around midnight a camper heard the sound of a petrol 4WD towing a trailer. As the gate was closed, the only way he could leave the valley was via the route he entered … Mount Hotham where the car and trailer were caught on 2 cameras.

The sketch and photo of the car and trailer were only released on 7 November 2021, 20 months after the event. He was charged with the murders on 26 November and at the presser held that night DI Stamper was still asking people to come forward if they recognised them, so they obviously still consider the trailer a very important piece of the puzzle.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I think they have made a mistake as if the gate was locked how did GL get to the Dargo road. The locked gate was the Myrtelford gate as far as I know, which is NE of where RH and CC were camped.

The Myrtleford gate was locked.

From DI Stamper's presser following GL's arrest

VicPol received a report that a vehicle was trying to depart the valley through the most direct and easiest way which was through the Buffalo River Track up towards Myrtleford at about midnight. A camper identified the sound of a petrol 4WD (petrol motor as opposed to a diesel motor) which was clearly towing a trailer. The track to Myrtleford at that time was blocked because of fallen trees caused by the bushfires so Parks Victoria had placed a temporary gate, which wouldn’t have been widely known, so the driver was forced to perform a U-turn a number of times because of the narrow track. The petrol motor and trailer correlates with the vehicle terms of timeframe because for a vehicle to get from that point to Mount Hotham where it was sighted on cameras would be within that rough timeframe. It’s a long drive to Hotham but there are very few other options if the track to Myrtleford is closed. The only cameras were at Mount Hotham.

 

[stacey_victoria]

Fire causes the soft tissues to contract which causes the skin to tear and the fat and muscles to shrink. The internal organs will also shrink. When bodies are burned, the bones become discoloured, brittle, and highly fragmented. Recovery efforts can damage the fragments further.

Killers often use fire in order to:

• totally destroy the body​
• destroy features allowing for victim identification (e.g., facial features or fingerprints), or​
• destroy evidence related to the circumstances of death.​

Standard fire is not hot enough to completely incinerate bodies... while it can do much of what you mentioned, it did not fragment the bones.

 

[Detective Willy]

Police have renewed the search for the missing trailer that could have been used to transport the bodies. They hold a theory that that it was advertised on Gumtree online but haven't ruled out the possibility it was sold elsewhere.

Link

IMO it is highly likely that the trailer was disposed of and was never sold.

I think GL never wants the trailer to be found. The "sold on Gumtree" answer was probably given to Police early in the questioning of GL and he does not want to get caught in a lie now.

There may be other evidence buried with the trailer like gloves, accelerants, a firearm etc?

 

[Kemug]

So sorry, but a hammer for example might have been used on the bones?

 

[Arboreal]

Welcome stacey_victoria
I've been out boondocking for a few months and had not caught up with the latest developments in this case.
Is there any newly available information on what triggered the attack on Mr Hill and Ms Clay - or why the alleged perpetrator claims he did it? And also what the accused did after he killed them? The assumption has been the accused killed Mr Hill and Ms Clay at the camp ground. Has this been confirmed?
I have also been puzzled by the condition of the remains and that they were found so close to a frequently used camp ground. Reducing a body to that state is quite an effort.
Is that were the bodies of Mr Hill and Ms Clay were all the time or did the alleged take the remains somewhere else first before taking the remains to the place from where they were recovered? I remember the police searched a couple of other places prior to the arrest of the accused.
The police did a magnificent investigation. I am sure there will be a miniseries in this.

 

[Arboreal]

So sorry, but a hammer for example might have been used on the bones?

That would likely leave traces and specific types of fractures. Pathologists are quite skilled at identifying the type of cause, if not the actualy cause, of damage to a bone, pre-mortem and post mortem. I remember one case where the pathologists found small microscopic nicks on a bone, caused when the victim was dismembered; and then on the bones, when they were broken up with a hammer, small amounts of metal from the hammer head. This was unique to a specific type of hammer - which the person accused had. I can't find the link or source of that as I read it years ago.

 

[Kemug]

Welcome home @Arboreal! And thanks for the info above. As for your questions, we are all still waiting for the answers. Hopefully we will get some in August.