Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #8

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I wonder if this was all just 2 unfortunate accidental deaths, if it every crossed GL's mind to offer first aid, call for help?......that would be the first thing I would think of , not my career.

What kind of mind goes straight to cleaning up a crime scene & than the planning to obliterate the bodies over along period of time?

A devious one I would say IMO
 
solari said:
Airline Captain doesn't mean he didn't have that inside him to do an evil act, just like cops doing bad things or teachers, doctors, electricians... If you catch my drift, profession doesn't really depict who someone really is or what they are capable of, imo.
Speaking from a personal experience, I was out camping in the bush at a national park here in Australia and was threatened with being shot and killed all because after being kept up all night by 4 other campers I gently let them know the next morning that there is a 10pm rule for noise, and that if rules are being broken you can be reported to the ranger and to next time be more mindful of other campers, they were up all night yelling laughing, being obnoxiously loud until 7am, less than 10 meters from my camp on a Tuesday night, I'm just glad I didn't get up during the night to let them know how much they were disturbing the peace ALL night and disregarding the basic rules because who knows what would of happened that night if I had of, we also don't know if GL had any dependencies, police weren't able to test him because he destroyed the crime scene and didn't own up. He might have been completely sober, but he may not have been, we all know how certain substances alone or combined with others can make people more enraged or irrational.
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I don’t think we’ve ever been to a national park camping without one other group like this. Never approached anyone as some spots had some pretty rough people.
 
Sdow said:
I don’t think we’ve ever been to a national park camping without one other group like this. Never approached anyone as some spots had some pretty rough people.
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I've been travelling/living on the road in Australia full time for nearly 3 years, in that time I have only had 2 experiences of loud obnoxious campers, I've camped in literally hundreds of bush camps, NP's, SF's, rest areas, free camps, and so on. I don't usually approach people but what pushed me to do so on-top of there behaviour they had people who had there site booked the next day rock up at check in time and they'd pissed off into town all day and left their site still occupied. I have my rights, gave them an opportunity to apologise as on face value they seemed okay, not rough looking at all.
I shared my experience to explain why and how easy things can escalate like the case.
 
drsleuth said:
I wonder if this was all just 2 unfortunate accidental deaths, if it every crossed GL's mind to offer first aid, call for help?......that would be the first thing I would think of , not my career.

What kind of mind goes straight to cleaning up a crime scene & than the planning to obliterate the bodies over along period of time?

A devious one I would say IMO
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It’s not like he handed himself in either. The guilt, regret and remorse would eat an average person before they even left the camp site. Not GL. He drove them all carefully out of there and spent the rest of the time, until he was caught, working hard to make it all disappear.
 
drsleuth said:
I wonder if this was all just 2 unfortunate accidental deaths, if it every crossed GL's mind to offer first aid, call for help?......that would be the first thing I would think of , not my career.

What kind of mind goes straight to cleaning up a crime scene & than the planning to obliterate the bodies over along period of time?

A devious one I would say IMO
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he said on the stand he never thought to call 000, it was all about his life, his career, losing his ASIC card, livelihood etc

he knew the forensic evidence would speak volumes so had to get rid of it - there's no way it was just about being scared he would be blamed, he knew his fictional story wouldn't match the scene
 
solari said:
Airline Captain doesn't mean he didn't have that inside him to do an evil act, just like cops doing bad things or teachers, doctors, electricians... If you catch my drift, profession doesn't really depict who someone really is or what they are capable of, imo.
Speaking from a personal experience, I was out camping in the bush at a national park here in Australia and was threatened with being shot and killed all because after being kept up all night by 4 other campers I gently let them know the next morning that there is a 10pm rule for noise, and that if rules are being broken you can be reported to the ranger and to next time be more mindful of other campers, they were up all night yelling laughing, being obnoxiously loud until 7am, less than 10 meters from my camp on a Tuesday night, I'm just glad I didn't get up during the night to let them know how much they were disturbing the peace ALL night and disregarding the basic rules because who knows what would of happened that night if I had of, we also don't know if GL had any dependencies, police weren't able to test him because he destroyed the crime scene and didn't own up. He might have been completely sober, but he may not have been, we all know how certain substances alone or combined with others can make people more enraged or irrational.
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Crew are regularly and randomly “Damp” tested for drug and alcohol abuse.
AussieIan said:
Really? I suppose the media is known for picking unflattering photos but there's only a few full body ones of him I've seen and he doesn't look like that to me. I'm sure you've already shared any insights you have on him previously but did you ever see or hear about him drunk or talking about drinking?




I didn't think it mattered just showing that it can and does happen and you just need a firearm involved.

I did look though. Around 30 in 2012 if I read this correctly

Body region injured:

For deaths, the head was by far the most common region injured—accounting for over 80% of cases. A further 14% ofcases sustained injuries to the neck and trunk


The below link is far better with statistical breakdown but covers 1991-2001.

View attachment 511264

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He looked out of shape when I was in court to see him testify. He actually said that he had lost weight…however at the time of the incident he was quite a few kilos bigger. Pilot’s need to go through stringent medicals to retain their license. DAMP testing is also performed via CASA on a regular and random basis for drug and alcohol abuse. Driving it back home this not just a career but also a lifestyle. I have no idea whether drinking was involved on that night,however he did have the presence of mind and cognitive ability to clean up the site. In hindsight it would be interesting to know ones past to get an idea into future behaviour.
 
Cliff Hardy said:
While you are searching @AussieIan, find some examples of double accidental deaths occurring within minutes of each other by different means. Preferably where someone has something to gain from them being 'accidental' like GL has here.
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Most of the objections are based around both deaths being accidental is fair. It's a pretty unlikely, or unfortunate series of events for the 3 people involved.

I don't think RH can really be called an accident. Even by Lynn's generous account they both considered themselves in a struggle for their life with a deadly weapon. Wouldn't be surprised if Lynn killed him but is trying to soften any judicial blow saying he fell on a knife.

Problem is people do die that way, commonly enough it's plausible and there's no evidence to the contrary.

IMO it would have played better if he owned up to manslaughter of hill in self defence after a tragic accident resulted in CCs death and RH attacked him in a rage.


I don't mean to speak ill of the dead but RH clearly loved CC and it would be completely understandable to attack someone he believed responsible for her death.

I think his main issue was he had to place the gun in RHs hands but how does he do that believably?
 
AussieIan said:
Most of the objections are based around both deaths being accidental is fair. It's a pretty unlikely, or unfortunate series of events for the 3 people involved.

I don't think RH can really be called an accident. Even by Lynn's generous account they both considered themselves in a struggle for their life with a deadly weapon. Wouldn't be surprised if Lynn killed him but is trying to soften any judicial blow saying he fell on a knife.

Problem is people do die that way, commonly enough it's plausible and there's no evidence to the contrary.

IMO it would have played better if he owned up to manslaughter of hill in self defence after a tragic accident resulted in CCs death and RH attacked him in a rage.


I don't mean to speak ill of the dead but RH clearly loved CC and it would be completely understandable to attack someone he believed responsible for her death.

I think his main issue was he had to place the gun in RHs hands but how does he do that believably?
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That the only one left to tell the tale has told a far fetched, fictional one doesn't create reasonable doubt in my mind.

Lynn had the motive, murdered them both and then destroyed every bit of evidence he could, including their bodies.
 
AussieIan said:
Problem is people do die that way, commonly enough it's plausible and there's no evidence to the contrary.
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Jurors don't receive statistics and they're not allowed to do their own research.

I suspect that 12 "normal" people would deduce that people falling on knives that penetrate the heart would be an extremely rare occurrence. JMO
 
Does anyone recall any other case where two people were ‘accidentally’ killed within minutes of each other where the perpetrator then cleaned up, set fire to the site, moved the bodies, went back months later to burn and completely destroy their bodies?

In all the years I’ve been a member I’ve not heard of one similar case.

OCCAMS RAZOR or major mental gymnastics - I know which I believe is right in this case.
 
emirates1957 said:
Crew are regularly and randomly “Damp” tested for drug and alcohol abuse.

He looked out of shape when I was in court to see him testify. He actually said that he had lost weight…however at the time of the incident he was quite a few kilos bigger. Pilot’s need to go through stringent medicals to retain their license. DAMP testing is also performed via CASA on a regular and random basis for drug and alcohol abuse. Driving it back home this not just a career but also a lifestyle. I have no idea whether drinking was involved on that night,however he did have the presence of mind and cognitive ability to clean up the site. In hindsight it would be interesting to know ones past to get an idea into future behaviour.
Click to expand...
Do damp tests include psychedelics like LSD, psilocybin, or mescaline use? Combined with alcohol while he's off work for a few days bushing it? Based on this information doesn't appear they do, correct me if I'm wrong but if he got drunk a few days before a shift the tests they do won't pick up anything if he had no alcohol in his blood stream by the time of his shift.
But also I mentioned that he may have been completely sober.
DAMPs testing
Drug and alcohol management plans (DAMPs)
Screenshot_20240618-220406~2.png
 
BigT said:
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Looking at the photos in this article and reading the caption below RH "their remains were discovered 20 months later"... Just made me think of the victims families, if it was just an accident caused mostly by the victims themselves/self, according to GL, why would you let so many innocent people suffer with what must have been excruciating pain, despair, and heart-ache while waiting for answers when they could of had that closure the day after it happened... Or any day since it happened for 20 months, instead of worrying about yourself, your career, and gun licenses. I guess whatever the truth of what unraveled that night we can all see clear as day what kind of person GL is and where his priorities were and are at when it comes to human life and the well-being of loved ones and all who knew them. Saying you just wanted to forget about it or "distance yourself" just isn't good enough, imo.
 
sapphire blue said:
Does anyone recall any other case where two people were ‘accidentally’ killed within minutes of each other where the perpetrator then cleaned up, set fire to the site, moved the bodies, went back months later to burn and completely destroy their bodies?

In all the years I’ve been a member I’ve not heard of one similar case.

OCCAMS RAZOR or major mental gymnastics - I know which I believe is right in this case.
Click to expand...

If you google accidental death cover ups there are plenty. It seems common. Although I guess you'd never know how many have got away with it.

To be fair most of the ones I've seen so far are 1 person killed, but thats because there was only 1 person there. Not a stretch to think if their partner was there when they were accidentally killed they'd get in a fight with the killer and potentially end up dead.


Maybe I haven't been here long enough but for me Occam's razor would be an accidental death caused in some manner by Lynn and a fight resulting in hills death.


Not Mr cool and calculated gunning down 2 people in their 70s over a drone. I find that harder to believe.
 
AussieIan said:
Most of the objections are based around both deaths being accidental is fair. It's a pretty unlikely, or unfortunate series of events for the 3 people involved.

I don't think RH can really be called an accident. Even by Lynn's generous account they both considered themselves in a struggle for their life with a deadly weapon. Wouldn't be surprised if Lynn killed him but is trying to soften any judicial blow saying he fell on a knife.

Problem is people do die that way, commonly enough it's plausible and there's no evidence to the contrary.

IMO it would have played better if he owned up to manslaughter of hill in self defence after a tragic accident resulted in CCs death and RH attacked him in a rage.


I don't mean to speak ill of the dead but RH clearly loved CC and it would be completely understandable to attack someone he believed responsible for her death.

I think his main issue was he had to place the gun in RHs hands but how does he do that believably?
Click to expand...
IMO he doesn't. JMO
 
solari said:
Looking at the photos in this article and reading the caption below RH "their remains were discovered 20 months later"... Just made me think of the victims families, if it was just an accident caused mostly by the victims themselves/self, according to GL, why would you let so many innocent people suffer with what must have been excruciating pain, despair, and heart-ache while waiting for answers when they could of had that closure the day after it happened... Or any day since it happened for 20 months, instead of worrying about yourself, your career, and gun licenses. I guess whatever the truth of what unraveled that night we can all see clear as day what kind of person GL is and where his priorities were and are at when it comes to human life and the well-being of loved ones and all who knew them. Saying you just wanted to forget about it or "distance yourself" just isn't good enough, imo.
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in the news.com.au story.

Justice Croucher told the jury their job was not to punish Mr Lynn for the “terrible and selfish” actions he had admitted to but to impartially judge if the prosecution had proven the four elements of murder for each death beyond reasonable doubt.

He said Mr Lynn was to be presumed innocent and for the jury to think two accidental deaths was improbable, was “fundamentally flawed”.
 
BigT said:
He said Mr Lynn was to be presumed innocent and for the jury to think two accidental deaths was improbable, was “fundamentally flawed”.
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It's exactly what you would have to start off thinking in a fair trial, that the accused is innocent til proven guilty.

To me it doesn't mean that the judge believes the deaths were accidental.
He is trying to abide by innocent til proven guilty.
He's trying to give no reasons the defence could use for a mistrial.

I had to sleep on that.
 
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