Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, 31 May 2019 #4

[HinterlandObserver]

@ 00:55. There's a 17-minute pause of phone activity between the time Theo uses his camera at 00:38 and a WhatsApp message he sends at 00:55. Interestingly, according to Google maps (see image ) it is exactly a 17-minute walk from the tip of the lighthouse road (where he might have taken a picture of the lighthouse?) to the Captain Cook Parking area which is very close to Theo's last CEL location data @ 00:56. (this location data could be unreliable? Then again, maybe not?)
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I would love to hear your thoughts on the other disregarded markers on the route, see pics attached. The dot on Massenger st (which I think correlates with the google cell ping), the one on the corner of Carlyle and Cowper that looks like its entering the property there, and the one at the top of the Milne track. This has always intrigued me, it looks as if he cuts through a house yard, into Evans st (theres a childrens park there and several of the blocks on that road backing onto the national park have since been knocked down and rebuilt but google earth still has streetview of 2019 so you can see he could have run through there at the time) and back out onto the Milne track?

 

[T-dawg420]

I would love to hear your thoughts on the other disregarded markers on the route, see pics attached. The dot on Massenger st (which I think correlates with the google cell ping), the one on the corner of Carlyle and Cowper that looks like its entering the property there, and the one at the top of the Milne track. This has always intrigued me, it looks as if he cuts through a house yard, into Evans st (theres a childrens park there and several of the blocks on that road backing onto the national park have since been knocked down and rebuilt but google earth still has streetview of 2019 so you can see he could have run through there at the time) and back out onto the Milne track?
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I put a few pics up not long ago after the 60 min special cos it shows the detailed map the Belgian police use. I’ll put it up again cos it does show deviations off the route taken, esp on the Milne track. We’ve always been told that while theos GPS was on the markers are super accurate. So his GPS was on while he was on the Milne track and it clearly shows the phone going onto evans street.

It also shows the weird ”triangle” route taken as well. Again, if the GPS was accurate, why hasn’t more been made of this?

 

[135802]

I would love to hear your thoughts on the other disregarded markers on the route, see pics attached. The dot on Massenger st (which I think correlates with the google cell ping), the one on the corner of Carlyle and Cowper that looks like its entering the property there, and the one at the top of the Milne track. This has always intrigued me, it looks as if he cuts through a house yard, into Evans st (theres a childrens park there and several of the blocks on that road backing onto the national park have since been knocked down and rebuilt but google earth still has streetview of 2019 so you can see he could have run through there at the time) and back out onto the Milne track?
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About the dot at the top of Milne track, was Theo checking out a hotel at Milne St? The property between #3 and #15 is a hotel. Theo had been checking out other areas around BB, it is a recurring theme that night, and it looks like he was making plans for the weekend. Maybe he wanted to move to a new accommodation for the remainder of his stay in BB. I hadn't seen or noticed that dot so it didn't make sense to me that he would go out there to check out that property, which is what I assumed he was doing when I was checking for reasons why he'd go to Milne St, but instead just start walking down the fire trail without pause. This dot could very well have been his location at that time imo.

 

[KathPlumber]

Or did someone say “come back to my hotel?”

 

[135802]

I would love to hear your thoughts on the other disregarded markers on the route, see pics attached. The dot on Massenger st (which I think correlates with the google cell ping), the one on the corner of Carlyle and Cowper that looks like its entering the property there, and the one at the top of the Milne track. This has always intrigued me, it looks as if he cuts through a house yard, into Evans st (theres a childrens park there and several of the blocks on that road backing onto the national park have since been knocked down and rebuilt but google earth still has streetview of 2019 so you can see he could have run through there at the time) and back out onto the Milne track?
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Regarding that dot on Massinger street and some of the traveled distances that don't seem to coincide with just walking, I had wondered if Theo could have been stepping in and out of a vehicle that night, both on his route on May 31 after leaving CM and later that night when he might have gotten back to town (June 1). Also noteworthy is how near his last CEL location data is to that hotel, and that in order to drive there from the corner of Paterson and Lawson St. you have to take Massinger St. It's only a 2-minute drive, 7 minute's walk.



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[HinterlandObserver]

Regarding that dot on Massinger street and some of the traveled distances that don't seem to coincide with just walking, I had wondered if Theo could have been stepping in and out of a vehicle that night, both on his route on May 31 after leaving CM and later that night when he might have gotten back to town (June 1). Also noteworthy is how near his last CEL location data is to that hotel, and that in order to drive there from the corner of Paterson and Lawson St. you have to take Massinger St. It's only a 2-minute drive, 7 minute's walk.



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Your diagrams are amazing. It definitely begs the question why is every other movement in the map takes as gospel but these points are disregarded. There’s got to be something in them.

I always wondered if there may be a car involved from the way the phone moves from the cricket nets at the rec grounds to near house number 28 on Tennyson st before what seems to be crossing the road and running across the oval, when he could have literally just crossed from near the cricket nets without doubling back first. Maybe someone had a camper parked there or something?
What’s interesting there as well is that right next to number 28 is a lane behind the houses of Marvell st that you can cut from Middleton to Tennyson st/rec grounds to from town.

The dot on Massinger st coincides with the entry to a pathway through the bush from Cowper st too.

At the time the phone would have passed Evans st a few of those houses were in construction and just empty blocks. It wouldn’t have been difficult to cut through from the street back to the path if who you were with had to collect something.

Here’s still a niggle that the phone (and likely Theo) was with someone going to certain points with purpose. The whole journey is so intentional, except the loss of the hat. I feel like he got lost/left behind when he stops on the track for a few minutes before running through the swamp to the beach to catch up.

 

[T-dawg420]

Your diagrams are amazing. It definitely begs the question why is every other movement in the map takes as gospel but these points are disregarded. There’s got to be something in them.

I always wondered if there may be a car involved from the way the phone moves from the cricket nets at the rec grounds to near house number 28 on Tennyson st before what seems to be crossing the road and running across the oval, when he could have literally just crossed from near the cricket nets without doubling back first. Maybe someone had a camper parked there or something?
What’s interesting there as well is that right next to number 28 is a lane behind the houses of Marvell st that you can cut from Middleton to Tennyson st/rec grounds to from town.

The dot on Massinger st coincides with the entry to a pathway through the bush from Cowper st too.

At the time the phone would have passed Evans st a few of those houses were in construction and just empty blocks. It wouldn’t have been difficult to cut through from the street back to the path if who you were with had to collect something.

Here’s still a niggle that the phone (and likely Theo) was with someone going to certain points with purpose. The whole journey is so intentional, except the loss of the hat. I feel like he got lost/left behind when he stops on the track for a few minutes before running through the swamp to the beach to catch up.

thats an interesting point! I just looked at the Belgian map again and it seems there are no dots that go across the oval. I wonder why that is? Why wouldn’t he just go down to the path across the oval which seems to be well lit? It definitely has lights along the path.

I looked at google maps and coincidentally it seems there are vehicle entry points on the oval right where the dots are. There does seem to be chains across it but who know if they were up that night? Could the reason be there are no dots on the oval cos he was in a vehicle? Either driving across the oval or even driving around the oval?

The seems to be a heap of gps dots all the way to the cricket nets, then only a few, even including the weird triangle section. A few down Marvell and then it picks up again from the corner of massinger. Then another kind of “gap” around the Milne track deviation.

Again, just going off what’s been said about how accurate these gps markers are while his location service is on, it seems bizarre.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

I put a few pics up not long ago after the 60 min special cos it shows the detailed map the Belgian police use. I’ll put it up again cos it does show deviations off the route taken, esp on the Milne track. We’ve always been told that while theos GPS was on the markers are super accurate. So his GPS was on while he was on the Milne track and it clearly shows the phone going onto evans street.

It also shows the weird ”triangle” route taken as well. Again, if the GPS was accurate, why hasn’t more been made of this?

Great points.
Hey what do you think the red lines and dark lines on the beach shown on those maps? Routes he’d previously taken earlier? Or maybe routes taken looking forward him? I see there’s sone fine orange lines too which look like search lines of sorts.

 

[Via Marple]

Just watched an episode of "See no evil" on Sierra LaMar. They mentioned the possibility that her phone was reactivated after turning off 12 hours earlier, because of getting wet.

I immediately think of Theo's phone, which did something similar. Theo's was not a Samsung phone though.

Here is the thread on WS with that information on Sierra (I was not following WS at the time)
Post in thread 'CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #22 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*' https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ca-sierra-lamar-15-morgan-hill-16-march-2012-22-a-garcia-torres-guilty.328416/post-13269928

 

[Jenga50]

My ponderings... Did Theo hitch a ride at any time on an ebike from the slab to the fire track. Who was the American who asked the English backpackers if they would like to go stargazing and has he been interviewed or come forward. Who was the girl who tried to dance with Theo at CM and why has she not come forward as a witness in case she saw something else at CM, what was the point of Antoine and Theo going out of their way to get the cheap goonbag in town then spending money on an Uber to return. IMO I thought Theo was with someone from the slabs onwards going thru to Tallows Beach then with no beach party visible on the beach, realised he was geographically trapped and for some reason tried to climb the headland at the cliffs, then slipped down the dark shale side, however I feel his phone left his grip beforehand and slid, remaining dry until the battery ran out. I think it may still be up there on the headland, wedged and dry hidden in a crevice or similar. There doesn't really seem to be a motive for murder to me, for an Oppo phone as his only possession ? Has the hairy guy in the podcast with the unusual name been found or questioned yet. It appears no ?

 

[Jenga50]

Great points.
Hey what do you think the red lines and dark lines on the beach shown on those maps? Routes he’d previously taken earlier? Or maybe routes taken looking forward him? I see there’s sone fine orange lines too which look like search lines of sorts.

Agree on the weird triangle route - noone mentioned it in the inquest I believe.

 

[Chiatos]

@ 00:55. There's a 17-minute pause of phone activity between the time Theo uses his camera at 00:38 and a WhatsApp message he sends at 00:55. Interestingly, according to Google maps (see image ) it is exactly a 17-minute walk from the tip of the lighthouse road (where he might have taken a picture of the lighthouse?) to the Captain Cook Parking area which is very close to Theo's last CEL location data @ 00:56. (this location data could be unreliable? Then again, maybe not?)
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Thanks for sharing your findings.
Starting point of those 17 minutes would have to have been the light house. Therefore Theo would have had to climb up to the light house first. Would the climb fit the time frame?
And: The 17 minutes needed to reach Captain Cook are calculated based on walking in daylight.
I assume that that stretch would take significant more time to cross in the dark(?)

 

[Chiatos]

Just watched an episode of "See no evil" on Sierra LaMar. They mentioned the possibility that her phone was reactivated after turning off 12 hours earlier, because of getting wet.

I immediately think of Theo's phone, which did something similar. Theo's was not a Samsung phone though.

Here is the thread on WS with that information on Sierra (I was not following WS at the time)
Post in thread 'CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #22 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*' https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/ca-sierra-lamar-15-morgan-hill-16-march-2012-22-a-garcia-torres-guilty.328416/post-13269928

This is interesting. Could you please paste the link once more because the one in your post doesn't function.
I have tried to search for the posting(s) about Sierra's phone, but haven't succeded so a new link to that info would be great!
TIA

 

[135802]

Thanks for sharing your findings.
Starting point of those 17 minutes would have to have been the light house. Therefore Theo would have had to climb up to the light house first. Would the climb fit the time frame?
And: The 17 minutes needed to reach Captain Cook are calculated based on walking in daylight.
I assume that that stretch would take significant more time to cross in the dark(?)

Thanks for sharing your findings.
Starting point of those 17 minutes would have to have been the light house. Therefore Theo would have had to climb up to the light house first. Would the climb fit the time frame?
And: The 17 minutes needed to reach Captain Cook are calculated based on walking in daylight.
I assume that that stretch would take significant more time to cross in the dark(?)

Indeed, at night especially as it was very dark with no moonlight, it would take longer to walk or climb. The other issue is with the time advance measurements presented in the inquest, if he had gone back into town you'd assume those measurements should correlate with that general direction.

 

[pheme]

There's lots of magic mushrooms in Byron. The more I read people's attempts to make sense of his movements or his state of mind etc the more I think how illogical someone on mushrooms can be.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

There's lots of magic mushrooms in Byron. The more I read people's attempts to make sense of his movements or his state of mind etc the more I think how illogical someone on mushrooms can be.

True, but mushrooms only grow under particular conditions and in certain locations. Not in winter in town.
It could have been mushroom equally as much as he could have been spiked with anything, but that theory still requires another petty involved to furnish him with the mushrooms.
Either way, I don’t think the his texts would have made any sense if he was on drugs enough to take a nonsense journey.

 

[SouthAussie]

This is interesting. Could you please paste the link once more because the one in your post doesn't function.
I have tried to search for the posting(s) about Sierra's phone, but haven't succeded so a new link to that info would be great!
TIA

Yesterday, I looked further for more information about this (Sierra LaMar's phone reactivating more than 12 hours after she disappeared).


"The prosecution flew in an expert from Samsung in South Korea, Oh Dong Hyeob, who testified Tuesday through a translator that moisture intrusion could have caused the phone to react.

Oh testified that discoloration he saw in the phone indicated liquid intrusion, which could have caused it to cycle on and off without a person pushing on the phone’s buttons."

Sierra LaMar: Defense witness probes reactivation of missing girl’s cell phone

Witness suggests activated cell phone could signal missing girl was alive after she is believed to have been killed.

www.mercurynews.com

 

[pheme]

True, but mushrooms only grow under particular conditions and in certain locations. Not in winter in town.
It could have been mushroom equally as much as he could have been spiked with anything, but that theory still requires another petty involved to furnish him with the mushrooms.
Either way, I don’t think the his texts would have made any sense if he was on drugs enough to take a nonsense journey.

Getting your hands on drugs in Byron isn't very hard though. It would be harder to avoid them they'd be available at the hostel. I don't know enough about the texts he sent but not sure you could always tell if someone was wasted. He could have just been impaired enough to make some poor decisions, but still good to write text messages and watch TV.

 

[Chiatos]

IMO it's quite obvious that Theo couldn't have been alone that night. For one thing he didn't know the Milne track. He hadn't been there before. It's obvious that others do know that track... even at dark.

A chain is as strong as its weakest link. There are several weak links (mismatches) in the chain of events concerning Theo's disappearance.
Surprisingly, police has chosen to ignore those mismatches and to focus on the 'normal stuff' instead.

Hopefully the 60 minutes programme will bring change to their focus!

Regardless whether Theo was "spaced" or not, someone out there knows what happened and should speak up.

 

[Via Marple]

This is interesting. Could you please paste the link once more because the one in your post doesn't function.
I have tried to search for the posting(s) about Sierra's phone, but haven't succeded so a new link to that info would be great!
TIA

I suppose we have discovered a bug within WS

Try again in a slightly different way..
Deceased/Not Found - CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #22 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*