Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #4

they'll get you · Dec 30, 2014

sosocurious said:
In his affidavit Gray Tostee says it was a shock when he and his wife Helene discovered their son had "consumed alcohol in excess" since the age of 17 years.
" Gable and I are very close and I love him very much .... unfortunately since the age of 23 1/2 years onwards Gables social activities were largely addressed by him in a destructive fashion with alcohol.
"Gable seems to get into difficult situations with alcohol and sometimes legal issues arose.

23 and half years that is very precise. (imo)
That would be 2009.
Can't help wonder what may have occurred to be so precise, given they were unaware of his excessive consumption prior.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...inge-drinking-Schoolies-17.html#ixzz3MFVMilyB

That's really very sad.

Amee · Dec 30, 2014

sosocurious said:
In his affidavit Gray Tostee says it was a shock when he and his wife Helene discovered their son had "consumed alcohol in excess" since the age of 17 years.
" Gable and I are very close and I love him very much .... unfortunately since the age of 23 1/2 years onwards Gables social activities were largely addressed by him in a destructive fashion with alcohol.
"Gable seems to get into difficult situations with alcohol and sometimes legal issues arose.

23 and half years that is very precise. (imo)
That would be 2009.
Can't help wonder what may have occurred to be so precise, given they were unaware of his excessive consumption prior.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...inge-drinking-Schoolies-17.html#ixzz3MFVMilyB

Could it be around the time he left home? :dunno:

And then, in 2010, he ran into an old friend at a restaurant
`When I asked him what other friends were up to I realised how much things had changed and how much I have missed out on socially over the last half a decade, he told his online community.

By December, he was a different person.

``Ask a guy who slept with 50 different girls in 2010 anything. Go! he wrote. :facepalm:

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...b-of-sex-hookups/story-fnihsrk2-1227026138739

sosocurious · Dec 30, 2014

Left home at 17 years maybe?
What made them aware at 23 1/2 years?? hmmm

SlinkiMalinki · Dec 30, 2014

sosocurious said:
In his affidavit Gray Tostee says it was a shock when he and his wife Helene discovered their son had "consumed alcohol in excess" since the age of 17 years.
" Gable and I are very close and I love him very much .... unfortunately since the age of 23 1/2 years onwards Gables social activities were largely addressed by him in a destructive fashion with alcohol.
"Gable seems to get into difficult situations with alcohol and sometimes legal issues arose.

23 and half years that is very precise. (imo)
That would be 2009.
Can't help wonder what may have occurred to be so precise, given they were unaware of his excessive consumption prior.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...inge-drinking-Schoolies-17.html#ixzz3MFVMilyB

they'll get you said:
That's really very sad.

His parents have laid everything on the line. At the heart of it all, these two have done all that they can to help their son through his issues and they have stood by him through it all. It's unconditional love. The best GT can do is to not throw it all away and screw up this opportunity to make amends for all the pain he has caused his parents. Whatever the outcome of the trial.

Ooohm · Dec 30, 2014

Age 23 and 1/2 years marks the beginnings of alcoholism and anti-social behaviour? What about the years before that, were they peaceful and productive. Trying to get a handle on the mind of someone who was working their way down the criminal slippery slope. Guess that will come out in time.

SouthAussie · Dec 30, 2014

Ooohm said:
Age 23 and 1/2 years marks the beginnings of alcoholism and anti-social behaviour? What about the years before that, were they peaceful and productive. Trying to get a handle on the mind of someone who was working their way down the criminal slippery slope. Guess that will come out in time.

Gable was still a teenager when, in 2004, he and two of his mates got caught up in a business venture that would eventually come crashing down.

...... with severe obsessive compulsive disorder, Gable had always been shy at school. He’d made a few close friends .... He lost his friends. He retreated from society. He went to work with his father in property development and investment pursuits where his only contact was with people years older.

It was that year that he signed up to bodybuilding.com and began posting in its forums.

For years he lived like this, tucked away at his computer.

And then, in 2010, he ran into an old friend at a restaurant. It was the beginning of his new life ....

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...b-of-sex-hookups/story-fnihsrk2-1227026138739

Makes you wonder who the old friend was, doesn't it? Seems that is when his life opened up to girl after girl after girl after girl .....

.

sosocurious · Dec 30, 2014

SouthAussie said:
Gable was still a teenager when, in 2004, he and two of his mates got caught up in a business venture that would eventually come crashing down.

...... with severe obsessive compulsive disorder, Gable had always been shy at school. He’d made a few close friends .... He lost his friends. He retreated from society. He went to work with his father in property development and investment pursuits where his only contact was with people years older.

It was that year that he signed up to bodybuilding.com and began posting in its forums.

For years he lived like this, tucked away at his computer.

And then, in 2010, he ran into an old friend at a restaurant. It was the beginning of his new life ....

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...b-of-sex-hookups/story-fnihsrk2-1227026138739

Makes you wonder who the old friend was, doesn't it? Seems that is when his life opened up to girl after girl after girl after girl .....

.

It does make you wonder.

This is what confuses me;
For years he lived life tucked away at his computer.
So was he binge drinking while tucked away at his computer from aged 17 yrs to 23 I/2 yrs?

He is witter when drinking alcohol and admits to being a danger to the public while binge drinking since the age of 17 years.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...inge-drinking-Schoolies-17.html#ixzz3MFVMilyB

Ausgirl · Dec 30, 2014

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=121423371

turning point above ^

Was reconnecting to the old mates he got in trouble with over the ID's I think...

From what I can tell, he is saying was a bit of a wild kid from a posh school, never had many friends, sounds like the ones he had were f-wits, after trouble they split, he became a social hermit. Did not go to college, I am guessing he was in a minority of posh school attendees there. Describes difficulties reconnecting to people, was never really that connected to begin with. Wonder if exile was self- or parentally-imposed. Had no mates, no gf's for five years. Then met up with old friend and... them bad influences mang, they are bad. Or Tostee finally escaped the leash and started living the wild youth he missed out on.. In any case, five years later, he's still pathetic just in a different way, and then Warriena died.

SouthAussie · Dec 30, 2014

And binge drinking is exactly that - binge drinking. I wonder how frequent the binges were. Was it mostly just when his parents went away for the weekend, maybe they went away often enough. His father seems to have been oblivious to the binge drinking, and he lived and worked with him.

I guess that with no real friendships, he could have initially been a binge drinker in private - and then it blew out to a major problem when he moved out of home (after he ran into his old friend in 2010?) and was alone and/or with mates a lot more. And then the ignorant, horrible, creepy behaviour with girls commenced also.

Ausgirl · Dec 30, 2014

loveamystery · Dec 30, 2014

SouthAussie said:
Gable was still a teenager when, in 2004, he and two of his mates got caught up in a business venture that would eventually come crashing down.

...... with severe obsessive compulsive disorder, Gable had always been shy at school. Hed made a few close friends .... He lost his friends. He retreated from society. He went to work with his father in property development and investment pursuits where his only contact was with people years older.

It was that year that he signed up to bodybuilding.com and began posting in its forums.

For years he lived like this, tucked away at his computer.

And then, in 2010, he ran into an old friend at a restaurant. It was the beginning of his new life ....

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...b-of-sex-hookups/story-fnihsrk2-1227026138739

Makes you wonder who the old friend was, doesn't it? Seems that is when his life opened up to girl after girl after girl after girl .....

.

The article continues:
[...]Hed been one of Gables best friends before everything went wrong. The friend had been genuinely excited to see him.

``When I asked him what other friends were up to I realised how much things had changed and how much I have missed out on socially over the last half a decade, he told his online community.

``The problem is that I dont really know where to start, I feel like someone who has been teleported into the future.

It was the beginning of his new life, a life like any other 20-something on the Gold Coast. Mates, nights out. Girls.

Five days later he was back online.

``We went out last night and met these two girls, he wrote.

``We were both dancing, kissing, talking for an hour with them, mine seemed pretty into me, wanted to meet again, hugged her goodbye outside and said Id call her.

``They were on holidays and are leaving today.

``I called earlier but it was an answering machine so I texted her and havent had a reply.

``Should I call again, perhaps off a private number?

Shed said she wanted to see him again, he explained. But now she wasnt returning his call. He agonised over it.

``Do you think its possible to close the deal in the same night with ANY girl if youre good enough? he asked.

A few days later he did just that.

It was a Friday night and hed started talking to her at the bar. She was on holidays. Partying on the Glitter Strip in the height of summer.

He followed the advice of his forum pals. Be direct. Be more aggressive. It worked. He took her back to his car - and then back to his place when the heat drove them indoors.

The next night he met a different girl. He tried to take her home too. She gave him her number instead. He called and texted.

``I hope this isnt a repeat of last time, he wrote.[...]
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/rise-and-fall-of-flawed-hermit-gable-tostee-caught-in-fatal-web-of-sex-hookups/story-fnihsrk2-1227026138739?nk=7e1e5eedd15a3b52962d39e6f206e264

The article goes on a bit more. It's a combo of excerpts from Gable's blog and the author's own impressions.

So we know the friend he met in 2010 was a guy and it set off the girl-hunter in GT. He'd been a hermit since 2004.

I've reading some about adult autism and this whole blog of his seems to fit. Autistics have trouble with in person communications because they find non-verbal clues distracting. So, he sat behind his computer for 6 years. Another symptom of autism is that they often become obsessive and excel at one interest. Was GT's one interest sex and women?

Even in the transcript of that fatal night, GT's remarks could fit into a pattern of autism.

I am no professional. I've known some kids with learning disorders and seen them grow into teens. With individualized schooling and other training these kids make remarkable progress. It seems Gable's parents had plenty of money to provide whatever he needed. Autism is a spectrum disorder. It has several different facets, with different levels in each of those facets, so that no two people are likely to be the same. There is high functioning autism and mild autism.

I was reading from here and links from here: http://autism.lovetoknow.com/Adult_Autism_Symptoms

On Aug. 10 he was described as having attention deficit disorder, another learning disorder. I don't think the 2004 diagnosis was entirely fabricated. There was some truth in it and I believe it will come up in court.

MOO

Ausgirl · Dec 30, 2014

Does autism spontaneously go away, though? As far as I know, it doesn't. Curious too, to me, is the clearly long-term habit of severely minimising or outright denial of responsibility for wrong-doing. Seems to me more like a sociopathy/narcissistic issue, both of which can involve an incapacity for empathy, social withdrawal/awkwardness, and are prone to comorbid issues like addictive behaviours (including alcohol abuse), thrill seeking, and depression.

Not really arguing for or against, that'd be for the professionals.. just, some more possibilities in light of the judge mentioning that he is not on the autism spectrum, according to an examining psychiatrist.

Ausgirl · Dec 30, 2014

SlinkiMalinki said:
Sounds like you can easily throw sex addiction in there with the smorgasboard of disorders and syndromes people have Dr Google diagnosed him with. Sadly to me, it appears that ultimately, he was searching for love and friendships in the wrong places. BBF was definitely not a one-stop shop for answers and advice. Maybe with all this time awaiting trial, he will figure some things out and finally get it.

Sorry, but kinda rude there?

Not speaking for anyone else, but I am certainly not "diagnosing", fwiw, I have no capacity to do any such thing. But I did study psych. And I am curious as what motivated his behaviours (clearly "not right" ) on the night Warriena died. Also, I found the no-autism finding very interesting -- rather than doing whatever you've said up there, I am thinking out-loud of what could *possibly* be up with him.

Just so we're very clear.

SlinkiMalinki · Dec 30, 2014

Ausgirl said:
Sorry, but kinda rude there?

Not speaking for anyone else, but I am certainly not "diagnosing", fwiw, I have no capacity to do any such thing. But I did study psych. And I am curious as what motivated his behaviours (clearly "not right" ) on the night Warriena died. Also, I found the no-autism finding very interesting -- rather than doing whatever you've said up there, I am thinking out-loud of what could *possibly* be up with him.

Just so we're very clear.

Ausgirl, please realise that I did not mean any malice toward you from my comment/post at all.

Ausgirl · Dec 30, 2014

That's fine. Just, diagnosing is against TOS unless verified (and verified people tend to know better than to diagnose!).. I don't think anyone here is doing anything more than seeking to understand a set of behaviours that seem as if they could have exacerbated the situation in which Warriena so tragically died.

Mainly, I do so because I don't believe for a moment that Tostee was seeking self-protection in any shape or form, when he dragged her screaming out onto that balcony. I don't believe there was anything justifiable in the way he spoke to (terrorised) her, and I strongly suspect there was enjoyment present for him in her abject fear once he'd succeeded in cowering her. Behaviour like that rarely surfaces without precedent, and I think we can visibly see some in his treatment (and lack of concern for) other women he's frightened.

Whatever is underlying his issues, which I agree may well come out in court and I hope they do, I simply do not buy that he was blameless in her death. Quite the opposite, is my opinion. I think Warriena witnessed his mask of harmlessness not slipping, but falling right off.

SouthAussie · Dec 30, 2014

To me, Tostee is a completely socially inept person. There are people out there like that. They do not have to be ‘on the autism spectrum’ … they are quite simply smart people who are socially inept.

They can carry out complicated jobs, they can figure out amazing scientific or mathematical equations, they can counterfeit with unbelievable quality, but they do not understand how to relate to other people.

To top this off, Tostee has severe OCD. Enough to make other children in school stay away from him, for him to be deemed as odd and weird, enough to make him a loner who wished he could have friends and be liked. I mean, have you ever seen anyone who is so affected by SM opinion and feels as though he has to take on the world and convince them they are wrong, that he is likable? His kazillion bb forum posts reflect that.

And I think his severe OCD played a huge part in Rrie’s death. She messed things up, she spoke of having to relieve herself (you're not the girl for me), she picked up/played with/took apart his metal object, she unknowingly pushed his buttons … but when she started throwing his little rocks around, something snapped in him and rage took over.

All imo of course.

loveamystery · Dec 30, 2014

Ausgirl said:
Does autism spontaneously go away, though? As far as I know, it doesn't. Curious too, to me, is the clearly long-term habit of severely minimising or outright denial of responsibility for wrong-doing. Seems to me more like a sociopathy/narcissistic issue, both of which can involve an incapacity for empathy, social withdrawal/awkwardness, and are prone to comorbid issues like addictive behaviours (including alcohol abuse), thrill seeking, and depression.

Not really arguing for or against, that'd be for the professionals.. just, some more possibilities in light of the judge mentioning that he is not on the autism spectrum, according to an examining psychiatrist.

No, I don't think autism went away, I think he was diagnosed with it at some point. The DSM has been revised 3 times since his birth. I know that kids with learning disabilities have been given different diagnoses as time went on. It's not a matter of him changing, it's a matter of new knowledge in psychiatry.

I was surprised to learn that there are adults who are autistic and have never been diagnosed. That seems to point to the different degrees of the autism spectrum. I'm not sure who said he definitely did not have autism. Do you have a link?
http://www.psychiatry.org/practice/dsm/dsm-history-of-the-manual

As far as the sociopathic/narcissistic issue:

[...]Lack of Empathy and Shared Perspective

Understanding where other people are coming from can be challenging for all adults, but for those with autism, it can be extremely difficult. Many individuals with autism struggle to understand the perspectives of others, and this can lead to a lack of empathy. It also makes it difficult for autistic adults to share another person's interest in a topic.

Adults with autism may notice that it is difficult to sympathize with other people and that they do not understand what others want, feel, or think. Additionally, this perspective challenge can also present a problem when it comes to humor, and autistic adults may misunderstand jokes. The lack of empathy and perspective-sharing can lead to many social problems.[...]
http://autism.lovetoknow.com/Adult_Autism_Symptoms
The above link is only 1 page long. It's worth giving a look.

Ausgirl · Dec 30, 2014

Like I said, I'm not really interested in arguing for any particular disorder. For reasons already stated. I do think that there's some underlying major issue, beyond what is listed in the articles below (linked as requested), relating to his inability to accept blame or responsibility for his mistakes and abhorrent behaviours. What that is, exactly, I can only speculate on.

Link:
Justice Debra Mullins told the court a psychiatrist diagnosed Tostee with social anxiety disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder and alcohol use disorder.

The psychiatrist said Tostee was not suffering from an autism spectrum disorder.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-warriena-wright/story-e6frg6nf-1227128046513

Link:
A previous bail application was denied and adjourned while Mr Tostee’s lawyers sought more evidence about their client’s mental health, and possible autism.

However, psychiatric examination diagnosed Mr Tostee not with an autism spectrum disorder but with “insecure social anxiety”, obsessive compulsive disorder, and depression, against a history of attention deficit disorder. He also has a problem with alcohol

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-warriena-wright/story-e6frg6nf-1227128046513

SouthAussie · Dec 30, 2014

I dunno, it seems to me that some are saying his complete lack of empathy, inability to sympathise, and ignorance of social norms can only be caused by autism.

These traits can be a reflection of many other things, you know. Genetic makeup, upbringing, life situations, general personality ... a myriad of things.
A psychiatrist from today, this day and age, within the last couple of months, said he is NOT on the autism spectrum. Stated by the judge.
:deadhorse:

emirates1957 · Dec 30, 2014

Once married somebody like that and I can assure you he didn't have autism.

Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #4

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