Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #67

[Shadow@light]

I’ve heard parents calling their children ‘lil sh*its’, ‘lil ankle biters’ among other things.

I plead Guilty, your honor.
But I love them,( My Children) I would care, fight and defend them regardless what I call them, lost I will search for them and never give up, they need help I am there. In time of danger, I will protect them lead them to safety.

 

[Travelling Wilbury]

I still wonder How They Know Something may have been thrown from a vehicle.
I was puzzled by this ‘way back’ when we were trying to work out what the ‘something’ was & from what vehicle etc.
IMO, there’s a lot of information that the investigators have ( very relevant or otherwise), that we, the Public, are not privy to.

Personally, I’m of the belief that there was new information provided by someone, and that’s what halted the inquest so abruptly. IMO the Coroner is very much at the forefront of all this.
Ch 10 had to hand over information: Coroner demands Channel Ten hand over information from its William Tyrrell podcast | Daily Mail Online

https://www.innerwestreview.com.au/story/7511838/every-option-probed-in-tyrrell-search/?cs=9676
'Every option' probed in Tyrrell search

Latest search at Kendall: Latest News - NSW Police Public Site

and on Jan 6 :
A NSW Police spokeswoman said: “Strike Force Rosann detectives are continuing to conduct interviews and other investigative activity, including those under coronial orders, as well as reviewing all material with the assistance of various experts.”

State Crime Command director Detective Chief Superintendent Darren Bennett said in November, mid-search, that Strike Force Rosann was “very happy with the items we’ve found in terms of their relevance to the investigation”.

Tyrrell witness interviews continue

No doubt LE could be combing through the podcast (and probably unedited versions too) to compare official statements vs podcast interviews. A few differences here and there could be enough to pose some hard questions as to what happened.

 

[SouthAussie]

Tranche 4
Taree
Start date ????
Finished early on a Wednesday March 2020, but not sure of the date???

Personally, I’m of the belief that there was new information provided by someone, and that’s what halted the inquest so abruptly. IMO the Coroner is very much at the forefront of all this.

The 4th tranche of the inquest ended early on Wednesday 18th March 2020.

Australia's international border slammed closed on Friday 20th March 2020. The PM made the official public media announcement (that this was happening) on Thursday 19th March 2020.

I wonder if the courts (and other officials) learned of the border closure before the public, and this affected the 4th tranche. I find the timing of the sudden end of the 4th tranche interesting, when aligning it with the scary start of the pandemic and its restrictions.

Border Restrictions | Prime Minister of Australia
Coronavirus halts William Tyrrell inquest

(We may have to wait for any inquest tranche answers from drsleuth, if they have any. I have a feeling the good drsleuth is very busy at the moment with escalating hospital cases. imo )

 

[SLouTh]

The 4th tranche of the inquest ended early on Wednesday 18th March 2020.

Australia's international border slammed closed on Friday 20th March 2020. The PM made the official public media announcement (that this was happening) on Thursday 19th March 2020.

I wonder if the courts (and other officials) learned of the border closure before the public, and this affected the 4th tranche. I find the timing of the sudden end of the 4th tranche interesting, when aligning it with the scary start of the pandemic and its restrictions.

Border Restrictions | Prime Minister of Australia
Coronavirus halts William Tyrrell inquest

(We may have to wait for any inquest tranche answers from drsleuth, if they have any. I have a feeling the good drsleuth is very busy at the moment with escalating hospital cases. imo )

Thanks for that info SA ..... and hopefully, we can, with help, fill in the other dates .....

 

[katydid23]

In my opinion, words chosen can also indicate subtle victim blaming.

"At its core, victim blaming could stem from a combination of failure to empathize with victims and a fear reaction triggered by the human drive for self-preservation."

"No matter what we want to believe, the world is not a just place. And it takes some difficult cognitive work to accept both that bad things sometimes happen to good people, and that seemingly normal people sometimes do bad things."

The Psychology of Victim :Blaming

"In order to discredit a victim, an abuser will often blame the victim for their own actions,..."

What is Blame-Shifting? Escaping responsibility

So was the foster Gma 'victim blaming' when she said 'the lil devil' when FM said she couldn't hear him anymore?

Personally, I don't think that was what she was doing because she didn't even know anything bad had happened...she was just assuming the 3 yr old was up to basic 3 yr old mischief, which is endearing, not a negative attribute.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

In my opinion, words chosen can also indicate subtle victim blaming.

"At its core, victim blaming could stem from a combination of failure to empathize with victims and a fear reaction triggered by the human drive for self-preservation."

"No matter what we want to believe, the world is not a just place. And it takes some difficult cognitive work to accept both that bad things sometimes happen to good people, and that seemingly normal people sometimes do bad things."

The Psychology of Victim :Blaming

"In order to discredit a victim, an abuser will often blame the victim for their own actions,..."

What is Blame-Shifting? Escaping responsibility

At the moment that the grandmother said 'the Lil Devil', she had NO IDEA the child was going to be missing...she was uttering a common phrase used by parents/grandparents in that period, and was thinking he was up to mischief, like little children sometimes are ....

It was a term of endearment, IMO, and she not 'victim blaming' because she didn't even know he was a victim. She thought her was just being a typical 3 yr old and had no reason to feel any kind of way about the situation at that time. JMO

 

[Warshawski]

Makes me wonder (again) if William did get lost in the bush/fell down a hole, and has never been found.

If he was acting hyper and boisterous that morning, could he have had more energy and inclination to wander and explore - something which previously had seemed out of character.

And it could be the reason why no absolute evidence has ever been discovered about an abduction/murder/pedo ring purchase/different kind of accident.

imo

According to family spokeswoman Nicole here: Was William Tyrell abducted? Police investigating reports of suspicious man | Daily Mail Online

William liked playing outside but he did not have a tendency to wander off.

'He didn't live here [in Kendall] so he wasn't in the bush but he was definitely outdoorsy,' she said.

‘He loved being outside but he knew the limits, he knew the perimeters, he knew where to go and where not to go.

'He was taught really well about the places that he could play.'

'He is a happy, cheeky, adventurous little boy who doesn’t wander off,' a friend speaking on behalf of William's parents, Nicole, told the Today show.

'William is pretty much always happy. He was happy to play in the garden and be with his family.'

'We don’t know of anyone who has had prior contact with William,' he said.

'He was playing in the backyard and running around the house with his sister. We are going to continue to comb the area trying to come up with something.'

I don’t know what happened to this little boy but I don’t think he wandered off anywhere. And IMO, neither do the Police or they wouldn’t be digging up the place where he was last seen.

 

[Warshawski]

The FFC said WT was riding his bike along the path beside the driveway and deliberately crashed into the bushes. Makes me wonder if there was evidence (broken branches etc) at the front of the house that she was trying to justify - see photo - where the verandah at the front door is high off the ground. Hard to see closely what’s actually under that balcony and how close it is to the path beside the driveway. I wonder if he fell from here rather than the long balcony on the other side of the house. If WT was looking for the MFC’s car, would he run to this part of the house to look out for him? I tend to think so. Were the Police looking in both areas for evidence in the latest search. All JMO.

I believe there’s a lower driveway too LIBPOP, it leads to the enclosed garage.
I recall us having some discussion about which ‘garage’ it was that FMFC drove into on his return from town that morning.

But I don’t know what the ‘path’ beside refers to, and I’ve always wondered about the comment that W ‘deliberately crashed his bike into the garden’. Does anyone remember if his training wheels were off ?

 

[Warshawski]

From quoted link:

'William lost interest in drawing pictures and rolling dice and he ran down the two small stairs of the back patio, onto the grass and he ran around the right hand side of the house (to the front).

'That is the last time I saw William.'

I find it interesting that the FGM felt the need to specify the "two small stairs" and "onto the grass".

We can all see there were two steps and a grassed area that followed. Why specify they were "small" and there was "grass"?

My opinion is that as opposed to "grass" is another surface not as soft as grass. Why did it matter to the FGM to state this as well as pointing out if the steps were "small" as opposed to larger steps?

In my opinion, I feel it is unusual that she used different tenses when referring to the last time she saw William:

"That" (past) "is" (present) stated instead of what I would usually expect, in my opinion:

"This is" - present tense
"That was" - past tense

All IMHO.

I’m not so interested in the tense as I am in her details Edgar. Following on from your quoted excerpt :

William was dressed in his "Spiderman" costume ... While he was playing out the back patio he started roaring like a tiger and told us he was the "daddy tiger".

She said her daughter took the famous last photos of William on her balcony and had been contemplating feeding him morning tea, and supposed it was about 10.30am.

'William lost interest in drawing pictures and rolling dice and he ran down the two small stairs of the back patio, onto the grass and he ran around the right hand side of the house (to the front).

'That is the last time I saw William.'

'About five minutes had passed and the female foster carer said: ''Mum, he's a little bit quiet' and she walked off the back patio in the direction of where we'd last seen William.'

She next saw the foster carer standing out the front of the house speaking to a neighbour and calling out William's name.
'The female foster carer walked back to the house and told me she was calling the because she couldn't find William.

'The female foster carer called the police (and the male foster carer as well). I think the male foster carer arrived home before the police but I'm not entirely sure.

'The police didn't take long to get there and I remember the officer saying he wasn't far away when the call came in.'

What was FFG doing when FFFC was driving around ?

 

[SLouTh]

I still wonder How They Know Something may have been thrown from a vehicle.
I was puzzled by this ‘way back’ when we were trying to work out what the ‘something’ was & from what vehicle etc.
IMO, there’s a lot of information that the investigators have ( very relevant or otherwise), that we, the Public, are not privy to.

Personally, I’m of the belief that there was new information provided by someone, and that’s what halted the inquest so abruptly. IMO the Coroner is very much at the forefront of all this.
Ch 10 had to hand over information: Coroner demands Channel Ten hand over information from its William Tyrrell podcast | Daily Mail Online

https://www.innerwestreview.com.au/story/7511838/every-option-probed-in-tyrrell-search/?cs=9676
'Every option' probed in Tyrrell search

Latest search at Kendall: Latest News - NSW Police Public Site

and on Jan 6 :
A NSW Police spokeswoman said: “Strike Force Rosann detectives are continuing to conduct interviews and other investigative activity, including those under coronial orders, as well as reviewing all material with the assistance of various experts.”

State Crime Command director Detective Chief Superintendent Darren Bennett said in November, mid-search, that Strike Force Rosann was “very happy with the items we’ve found in terms of their relevance to the investigation”.

Tyrrell witness interviews continue

Is it possible that the Residents of the Home quite near the dig saw something?? But perhaps waited until FGM passing to come forward???? My own question.

I don't know if this home was there in 2014???

 

[Warshawski]

Chris Watts killed his wife by strangling her in their bed. He loaded her and the faeces stained sheets into his pick up, went back and got his daughters and cadaver dogs did not pick up a scent in the house or in his vehicle.
I don't think that they are infallible.

Interesting article on Cadaver dogs.
https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/training/cadaver-dogs-how-canine-noses-help-find-dead-bodies/

 

[SouthAussie]

<RSBM>
I don’t know what happened to this little boy but I don’t think he wandered off anywhere. And IMO, neither do the Police or they wouldn’t be digging up the place where he was last seen.

This is all so reminescent of the Spedding thing, that I won't be jumping on this bandwagon without great caution.

The big searches
The digging up of everything
The high publicity
The lack of finding anything significant (so far, and they did say we would hear of anything significant)
The violence charges

imo

 

[JBowie]

A police dog handler said he found tracking William Tyrrell was “impossible” on the day the three-year-old vanished because it took two hours for him and his dog to reach the scene.

The dog named Gov also became riddled with ticks and was exhausted because of the density of bushland where William vanished.

Thank you for that quote and link to the DT article. I sympathize with any person or dog trying to negotiate lantana, however, I am somewhat puzzled by the significance of the two hours. I have read where tracker dogs have found human trails days afterwards. Environmental conditions can come into play with respect to that period as can attempts to cover up trails during it.

Leaving aside the dense bush aspect, assuming the dog 'Gov' was good at its job, then I guess it would have readily found William's trail past the property boundary had he crossed the road and/or traveled along Benaroon Drive.

 

[SouthAussie]

Thank you for that quote and link to the DT article. I sympathize with any person or dog trying to negotiate lantana, however, I am somewhat puzzled by the significance of the two hours. I have read where tracker dogs have found human trails days afterwards. Environmental conditions can come into play with respect to that period as can attempts to cover up trails during it.

Leaving aside the dense bush aspect, assuming the dog 'Gov' was good at its job, then I guess it would have readily found William's trail past the property boundary had he crossed the road and/or traveled along Benaroon Drive.

It was said that the high volume of traffic around the house and area ... searchers, police .... didn't help.
They didn't seal off the property (or the street) right away, as they should have done.

imo

 

[Blues Clues]

Thank you for that quote and link to the DT article. I sympathize with any person or dog trying to negotiate lantana, however, I am somewhat puzzled by the significance of the two hours. I have read where tracker dogs have found human trails days afterwards. Environmental conditions can come into play with respect to that period as can attempts to cover up trails during it.

Leaving aside the dense bush aspect, assuming the dog 'Gov' was good at its job, then I guess it would have readily found William's trail past the property boundary had he crossed the road and/or traveled along Benaroon Drive.

I think the issue was that in that 2hr time period the ground had been trampled over by many searchers making the scent and any trail very hard for Gov to detect and follow.

 

[SLouTh]

I believe there’s a lower driveway too LIBPOP, it leads to the enclosed garage.
I recall us having some discussion about which ‘garage’ it was that FMFC drove into on his return from town that morning.

But I don’t know what the ‘path’ beside refers to, and I’ve always wondered about the comment that W ‘deliberately crashed his bike into the garden’. Does anyone remember if his training wheels were off ?

Both bikes had training wheels on ..... as per the photo of the bikes at 48 Benaroon....

 

[JBowie]

It was said that the high volume of traffic around the house ... searchers, police .... didn't help.
They didn't seal off the property right away, as they should have done.

imo

Yes, I can appreciate that possibly being a factor, however, tracker dogs are trained to discern a human scent from among many and I guess some dogs may be better at that than others in a given set of conditions.

 

[Edgar70]

Reading on.... It sounds as though her statement was prompted by a conversation FGM had with local police officer Wendy Hudson. Initially she was probably asked 'can you think of anyone who would want to harm William?'

From your link....

'I can't think of anyone who would want to harm William,' she told police in the statement, dated two days after the boy disappeared.

I was asked this question initially by Wendy Hudson (a police woman who lives in Kendall) and I suggested Peter across the road, (as he keeps odd hours and lives alone),' the inquest document said.

'Wendy assures me she has checked him out thoroughly.'

William Tyrrell's foster grandmother's police statement to inquest revealed | Daily Mail Online

Yes, also possible, in my opinion.

These words are included in the sSatement as reported.

The circumstances surrounding the statement do not appear to be reported AFAIK.

ALL IMHO.

 

[Couldbe]

I’m not so interested in the tense as I am in her details Edgar. Following on from your quoted excerpt :

William was dressed in his "Spiderman" costume ... While he was playing out the back patio he started roaring like a tiger and told us he was the "daddy tiger".

She said her daughter took the famous last photos of William on her balcony and had been contemplating feeding him morning tea, and supposed it was about 10.30am.

'William lost interest in drawing pictures and rolling dice and he ran down the two small stairs of the back patio, onto the grass and he ran around the right hand side of the house (to the front).

'That is the last time I saw William.'

'About five minutes had passed and the female foster carer said: ''Mum, he's a little bit quiet' and she walked off the back patio in the direction of where we'd last seen William.'

She next saw the foster carer standing out the front of the house speaking to a neighbour and calling out William's name.
'The female foster carer walked back to the house and told me she was calling the because she couldn't find William.

'The female foster carer called the police (and the male foster carer as well). I think the male foster carer arrived home before the police but I'm not entirely sure.

'The police didn't take long to get there and I remember the officer saying he wasn't far away when the call came in.'

What was FFG doing when FFFC was driving around ?

'William lost interest in drawing pictures and rolling dice and he ran down the two small stairs of the back patio, onto the grass and he ran around the right hand side of the house (to the front).
What is "(to the front)" meant to indicate? ........ because the last time FGM had seen William was on the grass at the bottom of the small steps and heading around the right hand side of the house; she wouldn't know that he went to the front, instead he may have veered off in a different direction.

JMO - I agree Warshawski that with what we can be privy to with regard to the content of FGM's statement, we are left to wonder "What was FFG doing when FFFC was driving around?"

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, I can appreciate that possibly being a factor, however, tracker dogs are trained to discern a human scent from among many and I guess some dogs may be better at that than others in a given set of conditions.

This DT article says that Gov also became riddled with ticks and exhausted from the thick bush, uneven terrain, and lantana. Gov was there for 3 days. Arriving 2 hours after William disappeared ... which was too long according to his handler, Snr Const Gates.

Gates says that on the 13th (2nd day) he removed about 30 paralytic ticks from Gov, and advised the Port Vet Clinic that Gov may need treatment.

William Tyrrell: Police dog handler describes ‘impossible’ search

They should have taped and cordoned off the property and immediate area. imo