Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #70

[MissMarpleAU]

Yes. This also reminds me of something else.

So as per the DM article released yesterday, the FF was up at 5:50am and, as you note, he was keen to get to the pharmacy early to fill this script. So, given these two pieces of information, why would he be filling that script after his meeting? If the pharmacy opened at 9am in Lakewood and he was willing to leave for an 8am opening, why wouldn't he have left at, say, 8:30am, giving him time to fill the script before his meeting, if he was just at home all morning? It seems to me that it's possible that the reason he couldn't get to the Lakewood Pharmacy when it opened at 9am is because he went out and did a different trip, beginning at around 8am, that required him to return to the house before going out again (for example, because he did not take his meeting gear or because he needed to have a discussion with someone at the house directly), putting him behind schedule and without enough time to go to that Lakewood pharmacy when it opened before his meeting.

The only think that makes sense to me is if FMFC dropped off the script at 9am, but collected and paid for it after his meeting? JIMO

 

[Mauig’ma]

With FGM 3 at breakfast comment. My mind keeps going to FGM, FM & LT having breakfast, with FF & WT already leaving in the car. MO

My mind goes to William in his room as punishment for soiling/wetting his diaper. Moo

 

[Mauig’ma]

Is it possible the neighbors heard kids on a TV playing? A children's program often has kids playing and TV sound would travel in a quiet environment ....
This is just something I have wondered about .... as an explanation for those reports.....
IMO

I like this scenario

 

[Mauig’ma]

According to Grandma he was in a desperate hurry to get his script filled. So why wasnt he at the chemist on opening if he was all bright eyed bushy tailed ready to go.

It botheres me his morning expedition.....(s)

Even though FFC is the current POI His actions...timeline are suspect and unclear.

moo

And what was the prescription for? <modsnip> Imo raising any young children is very stressful. Moo

 

[Mauig’ma]

Not sure if I'm allowed to reply, given admin rules on only recent/long standing sleuths being allowed to make comment! (I'm long standing but been quiet recently!).... anyhow, what strikes me is that FGM uses negative words "W got sick of that", "other child just had to have the dice". I remember my elderly great nan getting exaserbated by her great grandson age 3 when he visted, just because they forget it's so intense!! it's quite a lot for some elderly family members to deal with - boisterous young grandchildren, especially if over excited etc and only irregular visitors who then stay for a good few days! I personally get stressed when staying over with my child, as I'm mindful we don't get on the host's nerves!!!! And tend to go out for parts of the day to lessen this!!! When FGM says "the last time we saw W" (before he goes...around house or is it onto verandah???). I'm sure imo she was about to say last time we saw W alive. Is that the verandah behind the washing ... did he run there and jump/fall? .. yes I know it's all been discussed b4, and no evidence found in searches then and later I.e luminol etc. But that sudden/abrupt 'quiet' vanishing of a child??? Weird. Regarding the '3' of them at breakfast, did FGM get left looking after the kids? While FP's both went out??? Perhaps it was all a lovely relaxed morning, but I'm not convinced! Are FP's covering FG or is it other way round?

I want to introduce myself. I didn’t mean to just jump into this conversation. I’ve been on websluethes a very long time. WT case is one case that brought me here. I have followed his thread and all the media from day one. Anyways I just want to tell all you others here we (they) are very close to solving his case imo. <modsnip> I’ll be honest at the very beginning I thought he was abducted. Then as time passed so did my theory. The theory I have as of the last 4 years has changed to the foster carers. One in particular is the ffm. This is all moo. But I think we’re on the right track finally to find out what really happened. Moo

 

[Akai]

<RSBM>

But surely, at the very beginning, police looked at his chemist receipt, with the time, and confirmed with staff there? I just did a quick google search of lakewood chemists, in 2022 they open 9am weekdays.

In my commentary that you quoted I wasn't thinking that if there was a trip at 8am that it was to the pharmacy. (It is my understanding that they do have receipts for the pharmacy trip after the meeting in Lakewood.) If he went out at 8am then IMO it would be for another reason, nothing to do with the pharmacy.

 

[Akai]

The only think that makes sense to me is if FMFC dropped off the script at 9am, but collected and paid for it after his meeting? JIMO

Why bother with that rather than just doing the whole lot afterward and how does it fit with him being keen to get to the pharmacy if it doesn't matter if he gets his medication afterward? The reason that makes most sense to me is that he didn't have time to visit the pharmacy before his meeting to actually collect the tablets which means IMO he was rushed. Why was he rushed if he would otherwise have been able to go to the pharmacy at 8am?

 

[Mauig’ma]

In my commentary that you quoted I wasn't thinking that if there was a trip at 8am that it was to the pharmacy. (It is my understanding that they do have receipts for the pharmacy trip after the meeting in Lakewood.) If he went out at 8am then IMO it would be for another reason, nothing to do with the pharmacy.

Yes what other reason could there be? My thoughts are negative ones that I won’t get into right now.

 

[purpleandgreen]

It really all depends on what time you go to bed or if you’re a person who needs a lot or little sleep imo

Exactly! So it's impossible to judge or make generalisations about whether people are up early or late. We're all different with different habits. IMO!

 

[deugirtni]

I think it would likely be this CCTV camera (circled) that CO is speaking of.

It would be able to see both incoming and outgoing traffic.
Probably the side-on view right before/after a vehicle went over the railway tracks.

View attachment 342849

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Thank you, I'm having trouble with all these descriptions.. can someone please post a map to show the areas in question, ie the tennis club at the time, in relation to where Benaroon Dr was located, in relation to where the railroad was located, in relation to which way would someone be going?, ie into Kendall? Out of Kendall via highways?

 

[deugirtni]

So you and a friend were inside (a garage) and both heard the same sound ... coming from the radio. Which you mistook for a baby.

PS was outside on his verandah and heard children playing.

JW was outside her house prior to running some errands, and heard children playing.

I wonder what sound they could have heard (at the exact same times or at differing times, we don't know which) that sounded like children playing at #48?



The only thing I was able to tell police was that I heard the children playing but didn’t see them … I just heard kids laughing and you could tell they were little children,” Mrs Wilson said.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/toddler-william-tyrrells-disappearance-still-haunts-kendall-residents-almost-a-year-later/news-story/03fb14d003bfb73d3c193b5f6731f74c

For me, the problem with these two witness statements is that PS turned out to be an extremely unreliable witness, no fault of his own I assume, just perhaps a bit of early dementia or whatever.. forgetfulness.. possibly some things in his head from seeing things on the news or hearing others say things, etc. Mrs. W unfortunately was not asked to testify at the Inquest, her words never offered under oath, etc.. and seemingly only offered up to media, who get things wrong so often... why was she not called to the stand?

Why did the Crabbes who lived across the street, IIRC, not hear the children if/when the others said they could? Noise travels pretty good in the silence of country living, imho.

I also think peoples' hearing senses can definitely be different... depending on whatever - their physiology, potential slight hearing loss or changes over time, etc... I know I will hear things at times and think the sound(s) is coming from one direction, but it's in a completely different direction. I have also experienced exactly what was spoken about - the radio sounds.. if there might be a sound in the background of a radio/song/tv show.. I have wondered what the heck is that, only to discover it was the background noise.

Also, the sound of kids playing didn't have to be coming from the FGM's home, whether from human kids or tv shows, or whatever, those sounds could've conceivably been coming from households on the Ellendale street, which I believe Mrs. W lived on the corner of Benaroon and Ellendale? There may not have been other children that age on Benaroon aside from LH's child/ren, but nobody has indicated there were none on Ellendale?

 

[deugirtni]

It is not a stretch at all to imagine that William may have been the subject of some violence or abuse. It sounds like William was difficult to manage (the recent media report of hitting and biting). I am speculating that MFC was getting a medication for mood as FGM relayed that he seemed particularly keen to get the script ASAP (pure speculation at this stage). He certainly seem a bit agitated that morning and there were reports he had been bothered by the noise of the children and wanted to go somewhere quiet for his online meeting (this has been discussed numerous times here). Both former FCs were inexperienced parents. We also know that FFC was not coping with William's behaviour. This is all adding up to look like a high-risk and volatile situation (possibly and JMO). Given that William was a foster child, and the study that I just shared has said that fatal injuries are more common in children not living with biological parents, I think it is very possible that something happened to William that fateful morning while in the care of the FCs. And this scenario is more likely than the vanishingly rare chance of a random stranger abduction in such an out-of-the-way location. This is all JMO, but I think we really need to seriously consider that Strike Force Rosann are on the right track. I just hope that, if this is indeed what happened, that justice is served, because William’s disappearance and likely death ruined (or at least seriously negatively impacted) a lot of people's lives, including LT's, the biological parents (it has been reported that the BF descended into terrible drug addiction due to grief), and the Speddings, just to name a few. It is time the truth came out.

Inexperienced in raising children and toddlers, as well as a relatively older couple in age (I have heard it more than a few times in my lifetime that there is a reason why women stop being fertile, but it has been said in a more joking way, etc.).. it is said that FM is currently 56?, and that would have taken her to 49 when W disappeared(?), and 47 for FD? Also, it seems with FM's statement about giving up(?), she may have felt FACS was not listening to her stated needs, which I'm sure could've led to even more frustration. ie it seems FM felt the one-hour, bi-monthly visits with the bio parents had a negative effect on the kids, and possibly she wanted that reduced even further, etc.. she may have wanted some things/services/testing implemented for what she perceived to be W's issues, but FACS was saying not unusual for children in care, etc. (That is ad-libbed from memory, but both discussed recently.)

 

[Awakening]

Detective Partridge asks the grandmother what happened next and is told that 'between four and five minutes' later her daughter disappeared after William.

After remaining seated 'for some time, then I didn’t hear from her, I got up and followed them down.'

Leading the detective around the side of the house she said, 'I walked all the way down here wondering what’s going on' and agreed she still couldn't see her daughter and so 'I went all the way down to the road.

'When I got down to the road I could see Anne Maree (Sharpley) who lives there.

'It was absolutely deathly quiet. Still. Nothing. I was down on the road talking with Anne Maree and then (the foster mother) came up very distraught and said "I've got to call the police".

'I think I was walking up when (the foster father) arrived and he was distraught as well.

'How he knew at that stage I’m not too sure, he’d tell you, I’m not too sure, then he started running around. Everybody was running around.'


Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his final hours

 

[SLouTh]

Detective Partridge asks the grandmother what happened next and is told that 'between four and five minutes' later her daughter disappeared after William.

After remaining seated 'for some time, then I didn’t hear from her, I got up and followed them down.'

Leading the detective around the side of the house she said, 'I walked all the way down here wondering what’s going on' and agreed she still couldn't see her daughter and so 'I went all the way down to the road.

'When I got down to the road I could see Anne Maree (Sharpley) who lives there.

'It was absolutely deathly quiet. Still. Nothing. I was down on the road talking with Anne Maree and then (the foster mother) came up very distraught and said "I've got to call the police".

'I think I was walking up when (the foster father) arrived and he was distraught as well.

'How he knew at that stage I’m not too sure, he’d tell you, I’m not too sure, then he started running around. Everybody was running around.'


Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his final hours

Thanks Awakening......

So there is a new article out this morning.....

Headlines

EXCLUSIVE: Inside the house where William Tyrrell spent his final hours: Never-before-seen images show the missing toddler with Santa and his drawings on the fridge - and the bedroom where he slept before vanishing without a trace​

• New images show the bedroom where William Tyrrell spent his final night
• Inside the family home where the toddler had last breakfast of eggs and OJ
• Police interviews reveal minute details of missing toddler's last moments
• Foster grandma gave different story of what unfolded with William
• Toddler had minor fight over toy with another child in house before vanishing

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his final hours

Never before seen images of the inside of the house house where William Tyrrell spent his last hours and and the bedroom he slept in before vanishing without a trace have emerged.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SLouTh]

It appears the FGM Video was done on the 18th Sep 2014

Speaking with police on the afternoon of September 18, 2014, the foster grandma leads Senior Constable Vanessa Partridge from Port Macquarie Police inside the house from which William had vanished just six days before.

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his final hours

Never before seen images of the inside of the house house where William Tyrrell spent his last hours and and the bedroom he slept in before vanishing without a trace have emerged.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Edit to add
@drsleuth or anyone that attended the Inquest, was this FGM Video shown?

 

[Green beans]

Thanks Awakening......

So there is a new article out this morning.....

Headlines

EXCLUSIVE: Inside the house where William Tyrrell spent his final hours: Never-before-seen images show the missing toddler with Santa and his drawings on the fridge - and the bedroom where he slept before vanishing without a trace​

• New images show the bedroom where William Tyrrell spent his final night
• Inside the family home where the toddler had last breakfast of eggs and OJ
• Police interviews reveal minute details of missing toddler's last moments
• Foster grandma gave different story of what unfolded with William
• Toddler had minor fight over toy with another child in house before vanishing

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his final hours

Never before seen images of the inside of the house house where William Tyrrell spent his last hours and and the bedroom he slept in before vanishing without a trace have emerged.

www.dailymail.co.uk

After remaining seated 'for some time, then I didn’t hear from her, I got up and followed them down.'

Leading the detective around the side of the house she said, 'I walked all the way down here wondering what’s going on' and agreed she still couldn't see her daughter and so 'I went all the way down to the road.

'When I got down to the road I could see Anne Maree (Sharpley) who lives there.

'It was absolutely deathly quiet. Still. Nothing. I was down on the road talking with Anne Maree and then (the foster mother) came up very distraught and said "I've got to call the police".

'I think I was walking up when (the foster father) arrived and he was distraught as well.

'How he knew at that stage I’m not too sure, he’d tell you, I’m not too sure, then he started running around. Everybody was running around’
‘How he knew at that stage I’m not sure, she would have phoned him’

This is new. So ff arrived home knowing William wasn’t there

 

[seekingjustice**]

Detective Partridge asks the grandmother what happened next and is told that 'between four and five minutes' later her daughter disappeared after William.

After remaining seated 'for some time, then I didn’t hear from her, I got up and followed them down.'

Leading the detective around the side of the house she said, 'I walked all the way down here wondering what’s going on' and agreed she still couldn't see her daughter and so 'I went all the way down to the road.

'When I got down to the road I could see Anne Maree (Sharpley) who lives there.

'It was absolutely deathly quiet. Still. Nothing. I was down on the road talking with Anne Maree and then (the foster mother) came up very distraught and said "I've got to call the police".

'I think I was walking up when (the foster father) arrived and he was distraught as well.

'How he knew at that stage I’m not too sure, he’d tell you, I’m not too sure, then he started running around. Everybody was running around.'


Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his final hours

Didn't FFC say in her statement that she was searching the property and calling out William's name? So why didn't Grandma hear anything or see FFC searching ?!

 

[Green beans]

Didn't FFC say in her statement that she was searching the property and calling out William's name? So why didn't Grandma hear anything or see FFC searching ?!

And where was FD Lindsey?

 

[T-dawg420]

For me, the problem with these two witness statements is that PS turned out to be an extremely unreliable witness, no fault of his own I assume, just perhaps a bit of early dementia or whatever.. forgetfulness.. possibly some things in his head from seeing things on the news or hearing others say things, etc. Mrs. W unfortunately was not asked to testify at the Inquest, her words never offered under oath, etc.. and seemingly only offered up to media, who get things wrong so often... why was she not called to the stand?

Why did the Crabbes who lived across the street, IIRC, not hear the children if/when the others said they could? Noise travels pretty good in the silence of country living, imho.

I also think peoples' hearing senses can definitely be different... depending on whatever - their physiology, potential slight hearing loss or changes over time, etc... I know I will hear things at times and think the sound(s) is coming from one direction, but it's in a completely different direction. I have also experienced exactly what was spoken about - the radio sounds.. if there might be a sound in the background of a radio/song/tv show.. I have wondered what the heck is that, only to discover it was the background noise.

Also, the sound of kids playing didn't have to be coming from the FGM's home, whether from human kids or tv shows, or whatever, those sounds could've conceivably been coming from households on the Ellendale street, which I believe Mrs. W lived on the corner of Benaroon and Ellendale? There may not have been other children that age on Benaroon aside from LH's child/ren, but nobody has indicated there were none on Ellendale?

Well said. Ellendale Crescent is only 140/210 meters away from FGM’s house at the time. It also appears it might be slightly up hill? I’m sure in a small rural area, and an area with no through roads, the sound could, and would travel quite easily and far? How anyone can categorically state where an exact sound came from without visually corroborating that is behind me imo.

This quote from the article -https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/toddler-william-tyrrells-disappearance-still-haunts-kendall-residents-almost-a-year-later/news-story/03fb14d003bfb73d3c193b5f6731f74c

“I wasn’t home and my husband wasn’t home. The only thing I was able to tell police was that I heard the children playing but didn’t see them … I just heard kids laughing and you could tell they were little children,” Mrs Wilson said.”

again, without a visual reference, how can anyone tell the age of someone who is laughing? She didn’t hear any words, just laughing? In my experience, sometimes adults mimic children‘s tone and cadence when they are playing with them. There is never a mention of a “male or female” voice or voices, just laughing and playing. Again, without anything visual to back that up, how can anyone say 100% if William was one of those laughing voices? MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

Why did the Crabbes who lived across the street, IIRC, not hear the children if/when the others said they could? Noise travels pretty good in the silence of country living, imho.

IIRC The Crabbs went on their morning walk in North Haven. Got back after the time period in which the other two witnesses heard the children.

We don't actually know who else heard the children. Did the lady across the street hear them (the one whose daughter did not come to visit that day)?
Did Peter in the creepy house hear them?
Did HS hear them?

We don't know if they did or they didn't. Nothing says no-one else heard the children.

As always, we are working with limited information, just the info that was given to the media. Not the whole 8,000 page police brief.