Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #12

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For some of these poor victims, if they were abused by a family member, they feel that they have to keep the peace in the family by keeping their abusers in their lives. Shameful that it could be used against them. It's a very complex situation. I have seen it (but thankfully not been through it.)
 
Ksks said:
I stopped trying to understand why people did the things they did. The only way I got through my job as a prosecutor (which consisted mainly of child sex abuse) was to give up judging people's actions.
Click to expand...

In your profession I totally agree trying to give up on understanding/judging people actions - people do what they want to do, make choices without wanting or caring about the consequences, it would drive you insane trying to understand.

Once I had children I understood it was my job to at least try to understand. Really the first two years is being about a life support system = feeding, bathing, caring/cuddling. After age two is about becoming a human in the environment - socialisation with other kids and learning play, don't touch the hot fire/stove, don't bite the cat or she will scratch your face (not hard to learn after the first time). Unfortunately my kids have learned even if you are nice to somebody they may not be nice back, its hard to understand for a five year old. I have had to teach my children to have a moral compass but others definitely do not. I have had to teach my seven year old that when a fellow student literally has his hands wrapped around his neck strangling him (happened more than once) its ok to punch him in the nose to get him to stop or my kid might seriously be damaged or die. There really is a cycle of abuse and until it is understood by victims/perpetrators it will continue.
 
IMO Judge Bellew has had no experience with child sexual abuse trials in his legal experience leading up to his becoming a judge and had had only two and a half years experience as a Judge.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/NSWJSchol/2012/3.pdf

On March 4, 2015, Supreme Court Judge Geoff Bellew was named new NRL judiciary chairman and that is where his expertise is - not giving bail to the likes of William Spedding!

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/...w-nrl-judiciary-chairman-20150304-13upns.html
 
Crown prosecutor Rosa Sharma told the court

1. The "known paedophile" was not responsible for the sexual assaults because he was in prison at the time of the alleged offences. "The [paedophile] was out of the picture. He was in jail."

2. Spedding was a flight risk and should not be granted bail.

3. The 64-year-old represented a "danger to the community".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-17/bill-spedding-in-court-for-child-sexual-offences/6553814

Surely those three reasons alone should had dispersuaded Judge Bellew from giving Spedding bail.

Do you think that these three reasons alone should have been sufficient for the Judge to keep Spedding behind bars?

What other reason s could have been given"?

Tampering with evidence? Interfering with witnesses?

Was Rose Sharma ill-prepared or was Judge Geoffrey Bellew not listening to her

There is nothing online about Rose Sharma and her experience.

But it appears to me that Judge Bellew must have believed that there was an element of doubt and did not listen or believe in what Rose Sharma stated.

It appears that the Defence did not have a copy of the mother's statement and the dates of the medical evidence. Was this on purpose or was the Prosecution purposely denying them of it?

No wonder Jubelin wasa angry about it all!
 
Ksks said:
I stopped trying to understand why people did the things they did. The only way I got through my job as a prosecutor (which consisted mainly of child sex abuse) was to give up judging people's actions.
Click to expand...
What an incredible human being you are to do what you do Ksks. I cant think about WT or these poor girls without bursting into tears regularly. Thank you for doing what you do (or did). With every disgusting ****** that is locked up, the world becomes a slightly better place.

Releasing them on bail on the other hand....ugh
 
Ksks said:
Child sex abuse is far more common than most people realise. Have a look on any state's court page at recent judgments. Most of the cases are about CSA.

The thing I struggled to deal with most is just how different people's standards of acceptable living are. We can't judge others by our own middle class standards.

I stopped wondering why parents allowed their children to be looked after by complete strangers, or why a woman who was continually beaten up by her partner would continue to return, or why women would deliberately set out to get involved with incarcerated men convicted of violent offences against women, etc etc.
Click to expand...

I understand what you are saying but do not think the middle class is less guilty of these issues then any other. IMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I've been giving it some thought and I think it's a good thing that BS is now released on bail. Let's face it, his business was looking grim before he went to jail. Once in jail he was receiving three meals a day and a roof over his head. Free medical care, free legal representation and he even got some new clothes. All at the taxpayer's expense! He was being held either in the remand section or the sexual offenders unit at Cessnock jail, not in maximum security so his time in jail wouldn't have been as harsh as some would think.

He is now at home with MS again. He has to pay his own rent, buy his own food, fuel for their two or three vehicles and pay his own utility costs. He has to report daily to the local police station (probably Port Macquarie) and that means the drive there and back and having to face the world every day. He'll have long days with MS, hoping someone needs their washing machine or dishwasher repaired so he can earn a dollar but the phone will probably never ring. I have a feeling that the reception he receives from the local community will be a lot more harsh than anything he's experienced in jail to date.

Whether BS is innocent or guilty of the charges, I'm happier knowing that my tax dollars are not going towards supplying him with three hot's and a cot for months on end. By the same token, if or when he is found guilty I'm more than happy contributing to keep him behind bars. It would be a small price to pay for justice being served. If he's found innocent, I've saved some money by not having to waste my hard earned dollars keeping him in jail until a court decided his fate.
 
Ksks said:
Child sex abuse is far more common than most people realise. Have a look on any state's court page at recent judgments. Most of the cases are about CSA.

The thing I struggled to deal with most is just how different people's standards of acceptable living are. We can't judge others by our own middle class standards.

I stopped wondering why parents allowed their children to be looked after by complete strangers, or why a woman who was continually beaten up by her partner would continue to return, or why women would deliberately set out to get involved with incarcerated men convicted of violent offences against women, etc etc.
Click to expand...

Yes I suspect child abuse is far more common than we are aware - and when perps escape punishment then it will continue to be a hidden burden on our society.
I noted back in an earlier thread you said you were a criminal lawyer.
I guess that to provide the best defense to a client it would require that one be non - judgmental with the goal being no conviction for the client, no matter what the crime.
Question and argue the evidence and present plausible scenario's to eliminate coincidences and create doubt.
I am not a lawyer and I am glad that I am not, because I still wonder about everything.
imo
 
This decision makes me sick :furious: , I've got a really bad feeling now that BS is going to get away with this, If the court had not granted him bail then I would feel a lot more positive, but now i'm afraid these two women aren't going to get the justice they've waited such a very long time for.
 
Wonder if BS's FB page will come back up now that he's out of jail.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 

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leep said:
This decision makes me sick :furious: , I've got a really bad feeling now that BS is going to get away with this, If the court had not granted him bail then I would feel a lot more positive, but now i'm afraid these two women aren't going to get the justice they've waited such a very long time for.
Click to expand...
I hope that the prosecution has a lot up their sleeves. In the meantime, hopefully something will come up regarding William. I do wonder though, did BS support JH in the 80's, did he cover for him? Is he covering for someone with William, did he act alone? I hate that so much time has passed with no answers.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
Just because his x's brother is a convicted pedophile doesn't make BS guilty of anything, does it? accusations can always be made against anyone and until evidence is forthcoming we don't know if the suspect is guilty.
He may never have known JH other than as his x's sister, I think JH's family must be nuts to have him in their home with children there.
If ever anyone in my family is accused of a crime I will be deleting my facebook and any forum memberships I have poste haste
 
Found said:
I understand what you are saying but do not think the middle class is less guilty of these issues then any other. IMO
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree that this type of offending occurs across all walks of life. I was using a lazy term of phrase when i said "middle class". By that I meant people who live comfortable lifestyles without financial concerns that cloud judgments, without psychological issues that lead people to put their need for "love" above the safety of children etc.

I also prosecuted "middle class" CSA but they didn't come with the same psychological complexities as some of the other cases.

Im not explaining myself very well so will give some examples. The single mother of two children who met a couple of men at a train station who offered to give her a break and babysit her children. The mother who commenced a relationship with a notorious paedophile while he was still in prison and slipped a couple of photos of her children into a letter to him. The grandmother who saw her husband in bed with three naked grandchildren, told him off and still genuinely disbelieved the charges.
 
sosocurious said:
Yes I suspect child abuse is far more common than we are aware - and when perps escape punishment then it will continue to be a hidden burden on our society.
I noted back in an earlier thread you said you were a criminal lawyer.
I guess that to provide the best defense to a client it would require that one be non - judgmental with the goal being no conviction for the client, no matter what the crime.
Question and argue the evidence and present plausible scenario's to eliminate coincidences and create doubt.
I am not a lawyer and I am glad that I am not, because I still wonder about everything.
imo
Click to expand...

I am now a defence lawyer. However I choose not to defend sex charges. That's because:
1. The complainants are very psychologically damaged. While children generally don't make up stories about abuse, adult complainants can be far more complex. Most cases are not black and white. Nevertheless, ALL complainants are damaged. Regardless of whether they are being truthful, generally they believe the truth of their allegation and I don't want to add to their damage.
2. I can make this choice because there are plenty of other competent lawyers out there willing to defend sex matters so no-one is deprived of representation because of my decision.

I think it's about time I became verified ...
 
Estelle said:
Crown prosecutor Rosa Sharma told the court

1. The "known paedophile" was not responsible for the sexual assaults because he was in prison at the time of the alleged offences. "The [paedophile] was out of the picture. He was in jail."

2. Spedding was a flight risk and should not be granted bail.

3. The 64-year-old represented a "danger to the community".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-17/bill-spedding-in-court-for-child-sexual-offences/6553814

Surely those three reasons alone should had dispersuaded Judge Bellew from giving Spedding bail.

Do you think that these three reasons alone should have been sufficient for the Judge to keep Spedding behind bars?

What other reason s could have been given"?

Tampering with evidence? Interfering with witnesses?

Was Rose Sharma ill-prepared or was Judge Geoffrey Bellew not listening to her

There is nothing online about Rose Sharma and her experience.

But it appears to me that Judge Bellew must have believed that there was an element of doubt and did not listen or believe in what Rose Sharma stated.

It appears that the Defence did not have a copy of the mother's statement and the dates of the medical evidence. Was this on purpose or was the Prosecution purposely denying them of it?

No wonder Jubelin wasa angry about it all!
Click to expand...

I will get verified and will then address this in depth. But BS getting bail has nothing to do with incompetence of the Judge or the Prosecutor. It is because the Crown case is not very strong.
 
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