Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #25

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Is there any indication whether the two parked cars remain untraced?
 
koios said:
Is there any indication whether the two parked cars remain untraced?
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We don't know if they have been traced or not, koios. That iformation hasn't been released to the public by investigators to date.
 
koios said:
The main theory, at the time Det Jubelin described it in the 60minutes documentary, was MOO that WT walked to the roadside of the main section of Benaroon (the section that's downhill from the bend), and was abducted from there.

Is it possible instead, he walked to the roadside at the end of the main driveway, on the top section of Benaroon, and was abducted from there?
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Yes, entirely possible and, in fact, would provide a more covert escape route through either the gated bush track to the cemetery from Benaroon Dr and onto Albert Road. It is ungated AFAIK in the westerly direction and wide enough for a 4WD to travel along to parts unknown. By the way, the track extends from the end of Benaroon Drive after you drive past William's GM's former residence.

Possible a perp drove past GM's, spotted children, then travelled via Benaroon and Ellendale to Albert Road and thence to cemetery. Perp then walked back via bush track and voila! Perp would have to have had local knowledge and/or known that William would be/was there and left unattended. Same for below.

There was also a track with gated access at the end of the first part of Benaroon Dr before turning right to drive past William's GM's. I think it is between the Savage residence and #51. There looks to be access to Batar Creek Road properties including a 'showground'. There appears to be access via the yards of other Benaroon Drive residences on that side of the road.

Take a look via Google Earth's satellite view.
 
Bohemian said:
Yes, entirely possible and, in fact, would provide a more covert escape route through either the bush track to the cemetery and Albert Road or westerly to parts unknown that extends from the end of Benaroon Drive after you drive past William's GM's former residence. Perp drives past GM's, spots children, goes vua Benaroon and Ellendale to Albert Road and thence to cemetery. Walksback via bush track and voila! Perp would have to have had local knowledge and/or kniwledge William would be there..

There was also a track with gated access at the end of the first part of Benaroon Dr before turning right to drive past William's GM's driveways. I think it is between the Savage residence and #51.

In addition, there looks to be access to Batar Creek Road properties including a 'showground' via the yards of #48 and other properties with frontages on Benaroon Dr.
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If the two parked cars are relevant then the theory would presumably be that WT was put into one of those cars.
Would that have happened on the far side of the road where they had been seen parked, or would one of the cars move to the near side of the road first?
Or move to a completely different location like you mentioned and return on foot?
The police sketch shows both cars pointing towards the dead-end, so both cars would have to turn around to leave, if they left by surfaced road.
And the driver's windows of both cars are shown open, another mystery.
 
Bohemian said:
Yes, entirely possible and, in fact, would provide a more covert escape route through either the gated bush track to the cemetery from Benaroon Dr and onto Albert Road. It is ungated AFAIK in the westerly direction and wide enough for a 4WD to travel along to parts unknown. By the way, the track extends from the end of Benaroon Drive after you drive past William's GM's former residence.

Possible a perp drove past GM's, spotted children, then travelled via Benaroon and Ellendale to Albert Road and thence to cemetery. Perp then walked back via bush track and voila! Perp would have to have had local knowledge and/or known that William would be/was there and left unattended. Same for below.

There was also a track with gated access at the end of the first part of Benaroon Dr before turning right to drive past William's GM's. I think it is between the Savage residence and #51. There looks to be access to Batar Creek Road properties including a 'showground'. There appears to be access via the yards of other Benaroon Drive residences on that side of the road.

Take a look via Google Earth's satellite view.
Click to expand...

The perp may not have needed to know that William was there. As Jubelin says ... an opportunistic abduction fits the bill.
 
SouthAussie said:
The perp may not have needed to know that William was there. As Jubelin says ... an opportunistic abduction fits the bill.
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Agreed. It's possible that an abductor had no prior knowledge of WT, or any children, being there.

And MOO opportunistic abduction by a total stranger is one of the possibilities.
Abduction by a non-stranger (or non-stranger's accomplice) can be investigated in an extremely targeted way - a list can be made of all people who knew or had peripheral connections of any kind with the families or neighbours, and continuously extended to the second-tier (people connected to people connected to ...) and third-tier as the investigation proceeds, resulting in investigation and eventual ruling out of many 100's of people. A huge amount of work, but at least it's targeted. And I think we can be sure this has been and is being done, very thoroughly.
Abduction by stranger is much harder to investigate - because it's so much less targeted. If one starts with a list of everyone who lives in / used to live in / visits / drives through a 30 mile radius around the town, that's a huge list to work through, many thousands of people, and it's very difficult to make anything like a complete initial list of people to be questioned.
 
SouthAussie said:
The perp may not have needed to know that William was there. As Jubelin says ... an opportunistic abduction fits the bill.
Click to expand...

koios said:
Agreed. It's possible that an abductor had no prior knowledge of WT, or any children, being there.

And MOO opportunistic abduction by a total stranger is one of the possibilities.
Abduction by a non-stranger (or non-stranger's accomplice) can be investigated in an extremely targeted way - a list can be made of all people who knew or had peripheral connections of any kind with the families or neighbours, and continuously extended to the second-tier (people connected to people connected to ...) and third-tier as the investigation proceeds, resulting in investigation and eventual ruling out of many 100's of people. A huge amount of work, but at least it's targeted. And I think we can be sure this has been and is being done, very thoroughly.
Abduction by stranger is much harder to investigate - because it's so much less targeted. If one starts with a list of everyone who lives in / used to live in / visits / drives through a 30 mile radius around the town, that's a huge list to work through, many thousands of people, and it's very difficult to make anything like a complete initial list of people to be questioned.
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I said and/or pertaining to knowledge of William located there on that date or left unattended at the time. Regardless of planned or randomoportunistic nature of kidnapping, perp would have had to have some knowledge of the local area if they used other routes rather than Benaroon Dr proper to make good their escape - and make good their escape they most certainly did.
 
Bohemian said:
I said and/or pertaining to knowledge of William located there on that date or left unattended at the time. Regardless of planned or randomoportunistic nature of kidnapping, perp would have had to have some knowledge of the local area if they used other routes rather than Benaroon Dr proper to make good their escape - and make good their escape they most certainly did.
Click to expand...
Agreed, if a perp used an escape route other than Benaroon drive proper, that would mean the perp had knowledge of the local area
What I am trying to do is write down a few things we can say with some level of certainty.
They are going to be few in number, but I think that qualifies as one of them
Another candidate might be this: that the drivers of the two parked cars were somehow associated with each other, and not complete strangers to each other.
That is worked out only from the cars being parked one behind the other, and assuming there was a reason for that.
 
koios said:
Agreed, if a perp used an escape route other than Benaroon drive proper, that would mean the perp had knowledge of the local area
What I am trying to do is write down a few things we can say with some level of certainty.
They are going to be few in number, but I think that qualifies as one of them
Another candidate might be this: that the drivers of the two parked cars were somehow associated with each other, and not complete strangers to each other.
That is worked out only from the cars being parked one behind the other, and assuming there was a reason for that.
Click to expand...

Agreed if the two cars seen early that morning are indeed relevant. I'm more interested in the grey/grey-green car (one of the two?) whose driver made a right turn into the 'dead end' part of Benaroon Drive. They drove into GM's next door neighbour's driveway and reversed out, passing GM's house a second time. William and his sister were reported to be riding their bikes in the driveway at the time (around 9am) under the supervision of their FM.
 
Bohemian said:
Agreed if the two cars seen early that morning are indeed relevant. I'm more interested in the grey/grey-green car (one of the two?) whose driver made a right turn into the 'dead end' part of Benaroon Drive. They drove into GM's next door neighbour's driveway and reversed out, passing GM's house a second time. William and his sister were reported to be riding their bikes in the driveway at the time (around 9am) under the supervision of their FM.
Click to expand...

Can you please post the link for that? TY!
 
Bohemian said:
Agreed if the two cars seen early that morning are indeed relevant. I'm more interested in the grey/grey-green car (one of the two?) whose driver made a right turn into the 'dead end' part of Benaroon Drive. They drove into GM's next door neighbour's driveway and reversed out, passing GM's house a second time. William and his sister were reported to be riding their bikes in the driveway at the time (around 9am) under the supervision of their FM.
Click to expand...
Yes the car turning round is interesting. People who live on Benaroon Dr would normally use their own driveway to turn around, not someone else's.
 
It would be interesting to know if the two parked cars were there when FF drove past on way to meeting.
As dashcams become more popular, they will be more and more useful in investigations, enabling makes and colours of cars to be recalled accurately, and sometimes licence plates too.
 
Bohemian said:
I said and/or pertaining to knowledge of William located there on that date or left unattended at the time. Regardless of planned or randomoportunistic nature of kidnapping, perp would have had to have some knowledge of the local area if they used other routes rather than Benaroon Dr proper to make good their escape - and make good their escape they most certainly did.
Click to expand...

I think that police searching for a part of a 'vehicle' in the forest, in the early days, may hold some significance to the escape route.
Did they ever find that part? Who knows.
But I do think they know what happened, and how it happened, but they cannot tie down sufficient evidence for the prosecutor to agree with an arrest leading to a successful conviction ...... yet.


Police said Middle Brother State Forest and surrounds will be searched from Thursday morning. The focus of the search since William went missing last Friday morning has been the Kendall State Forest and the area around Benaroon Drive.

Superintendent Paul Fehon said the State Emergency Service's volunteers will walk the forest's trails as they search for part of a vehicle that may have become detached.
http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/...-missing-william-tyrell-audio-photos/?cs=2452
 
Sexual abuse thrives in secrecy, threats to children and family and maybe pets are the price the child pays for non disclosure.
The average age of a paedophile is 27, and the number of children abused over a paedophile's life is around 300.
 
deugirtni said:
Can you please post the link for that? TY!
Click to expand...

sillybilly said:
It's "in there" somewhere, but I couldn't find it in the threads just offhand ... but this is the image that was posted of the two vehicles:

http://s127.photobucket.com/user/Brytech/media/Cars from video_zpsucbfl9f2.jpg.html
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I'm sorry d and sb. I was rude in my anawer to d and you had every right to take issue with it, sb. Everything you need regarding the cars wrt the timeline of William's disappearance should be included in this link, including MSM references:

'Sighted vehicles

The police later began investigations into finding the drivers of two cars that were seen parked on the dead end road on the morning Tyrrell disappeared. The cars, described as a white station wagon and an older-style grey sedan, were parked between two driveways of the acre lot of land. They were seen with their driver's side windows down and were unknown in the neighborhood where locals are friends.[1][12] These cars were noticed by Tyrrell's mother and they have not been seen again since the time he disappeared. The police regard these particular vehicles with suspicion, as there seemed to be no logical reason why they would be parked on the street before William's disappearance.[13] Reportedly, at 9 am, a green or grey sedan car drove past the Tyrrell home while William and his sister were riding bikes in the driveway. The car drove into the no through road, did a U turn in the neighbour's driveway and drove out of the street. Secondly, another 4WD was sighted driving out of Benaroon Drive at about 10:30 am, about the time he disappeared. The same vehicle was later seen speeding down another Kendall street. The police said that they have known about these cars since the investigation started. However, as part of investigative strategy, the information about these vehicles was not released to the public until 12 months after Tyrrell disappeared.[9]'

Disappearance of William Tyrrell​

Again, please accept my sincere apologies. My frustration with this case is almost palpable at the moment.
 
koios said:
If the two parked cars are relevant then the theory would presumably be that WT was put into one of those cars.
Would that have happened on the far side of the road where they had been seen parked, or would one of the cars move to the near side of the road first?
Or move to a completely different location like you mentioned and return on foot?
The police sketch shows both cars pointing towards the dead-end, so both cars would have to turn around to leave, if they left by surfaced road.
And the driver's windows of both cars are shown open, another mystery.
Click to expand...

Hmm...need some time to ponder those questions. The cogs in my brain turn very slowly in the evening. I'll probably have a 'Eureka!' moment on waking tomorrow morning.
 
SouthAussie said:
I think that police searching for a part of a 'vehicle' in the forest, in the early days, may hold some significance to the escape route.
Did they ever find that part? Who knows.
But I do think they know what happened, and how it happened, but they cannot tie down sufficient evidence for the prosecutor to agree with an arrest leading to a successful conviction ...... yet.


Police said Middle Brother State Forest and surrounds will be searched from Thursday morning. The focus of the search since William went missing last Friday morning has been the Kendall State Forest and the area around Benaroon Drive.

Superintendent Paul Fehon said the State Emergency Service's volunteers will walk the forest's trails as they search for part of a vehicle that may have become detached.
http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/...-missing-william-tyrell-audio-photos/?cs=2452
Click to expand...

My layman brain is working this sequence: First there is a detached part of some vehicle laying near/in the forest and found by someone. Only after that it makes sense to start a search to find some more evidence: another part of the vehicle or maybe tire tracks or some dumped stuff.
 
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