Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #26

[purpleandgreen]

Its back on earlier threads. There's also a lot on social media, which of course can't be posted here.

And I resent the implication of the bolded section, implying that that I have some sort of 'ist' attitude. You know nothing of my background or current circumstances, so I don't think you are qualified to make those offensive assertions.

I have formed my opinions from what I have read here on WS, nothing more, nothing less. And that's what they are, opinions, ONLY.

I have searched a lot for info on bio Dad but have come up with nothing, would you point me to where I can find information to support what you have claimed? BBM. I also saw in a court list that NC seemed to be the victim of DV from her other son and was compelled to give evidence for the police about the assault IIRC. I don't see anything about her or her long term (mystery man) partner, having a criminal record or her good friend KL, for that matter. Is it because she applied for govt. housing or lives in Sydney's west that you have these attitudes about the type of family WT would have been surrounded by? Do you think WT's sister will be restored to his biological mother soon since she seems to be doing well with his other 2 siblings? MOO

 

[Karinna]

I see in one of the articles referenced here ..... BBM


“The last year for both of us, including William’s sister, has been incredible difficult on so many levels,” says William’s dad. “It’s a deep, wide gap.”

He says he was resolute, he wanted to stay in Kendall indefinitely, but the police eventually forced them to leave. He cries as he describes packing the little boy’s clothes and toys into the family car and staring at the empty car seat in the back as they drove home to Sydney.

http://www.kidspot.com.au/parenting...bring-william-back-parents-appeal-one-year-on

In your bolded part about police forcing F family to leave. That sounds like a lie. How and why would police force a family to leave the home of another family member, in this case an elderly mother, of the FM, from the home of where a little boy supposedly went missing from?
The police might have advised them to go home, but they would not be forcibly able to remove them from the elderly mother's home, unless they had committed a crime and were arrested. My hinky meter has always been up in this case and who knows what it is really all about? All IMO

 

[ozazure]

BBM If I was in their situation, a plethora of holidays and palatial homes would never ease my pain or desperation to find him.

And yes, Oza, I agree that NC shouldn't be blaming anyone. The foster parents obviously studied and worked hard to get their just (material) rewards, while others just depend on government handouts from our taxes.

I don't think it does either, was just taking a position - although having resources does help obviously, removes other frustrations and discomforts. I hope his sister is being given as pleasant a childhood as possible, the poor poppet has experienced so much.

 

[Eloise]

I think she probably cleaned up her act, became a better parent, since William and his sister were removed. If it was just him and she had him permanently leave the children’s residence, I do not believe they would have taken the children away.

Judging by other cases that have been publicised (like Chloe Valentine), Child Protective Services generally give both parents a million chances, lots of coaching, parental plans, various opportunities, prior to removing children.

She must have carried a level of fault herself. Either by being a consistently, extremely poor parent too, or refusing to keep an extremely abusive parent away.

I think this is murky territory tbh. Who knows what the dynamic of that relationship was? I would never judge a woman in an abusive relationship, and that might have been the case.

I do think that whatever happened, that there was a good chance WT and his sister would have ended up back in her care eventually, but maybe KT and her former partner are too entwined and any of his children just aren't safe with her - not because of HER but HIM.

 

[frogwell]

Its back on earlier threads. There's also a lot on social media, which of course can't be posted here.

And I resent the implication of the bolded section, implying that that I have some sort of 'ist' attitude. You know nothing of my background or current circumstances, so I don't think you are qualified to make those offensive assertions.

I have formed my opinions from what I have read here on WS, nothing more, nothing less. And that's what they are, opinions, ONLY.

I apologise if I have caused you offence. I have gone over these threads for ages and can get no info from all the threads on bio dad. <modsnip>

. Agree, about opinions and everyone's entitled. You made a statement about what WT would have grown up being surrounded by. I just asked to be referred to the facts as I can't see them on these threads. I try to base my opinions on facts. MOO

 

[frogwell]

In your bolded part about police forcing F family to leave. That sounds like a lie. How and why would police force a family to leave the home of another family member, in this case an elderly mother, of the FM, from the home of where a little boy supposedly went missing from?
The police might have advised them to go home, but they would not be forcibly able to remove them from the elderly mother's home, unless they had committed a crime and were arrested. My hinky meter has always been up in this case and who knows what it is really all about? All IMO

Yes, I don't know if I would call it a lie, but I wondered too how the police compelled someone to go home who is free. The only thing I can think that might be used as leverage to "compell" people in this case to return home, not speak to media etc. is children's circumstances being reviewed by govt. bodies.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think this is murky territory tbh. Who knows what the dynamic of that relationship was? I would never judge a woman in an abusive relationship, and that might have been the case.

I do think that whatever happened, that there was a good chance WT and his sister would have ended up back in her care eventually, but maybe KT and her former partner are too entwined and any of his children just aren't safe with her - not because of HER but HIM.

Just to clarify ... the reason I said 'her possible refusal to keep an abusive partner away' is because a restraining order could have been sought by her to assist her in keeping him away - if he was the only issue for the children.

A restraining order would have enabled police intervention, if required, and allowed the children to remain with her ... if he was the only problem. It is something that other abused women have done, to keep their children (and themselves) relatively safe.

I honestly do not believe that FACS would remove the children from both parents, unless both parents played a part in the reason for the children's removal. And as I stated before, it takes time to remove children ... time and coaching and parental plans, etc. They are only removed if none of that works.

I, too, would never judge a person in an abusive relationship. Just stating the possibilities as I see them.

 

[Karinna]

Yes, I don't know if I would call it a lie, but I wondered too how the police compelled someone to go home who is free. The only thing I can think that might be used as leverage to "compell" people in this case to return home, not speak to media etc. is children's circumstances being reviewed by govt. bodies.

I think regardless of any of that there was no jurisdiction for the Govt. body or police who are employed by the Govt. to "force" anyone to do anything as far as the FF goes. They would i imagine have got in touch with a lawyer considering WT was a foster child in their care that went missing from them. They would have been advised by whomever Govt. or police on what they had or were advised not to do, but doubt they were forced to do anything which is the point i was trying to make.

 

[Karinna]

Just to clarify ... the reason I said 'her possible refusal to keep an abusive partner away' is because a restraining order could have been sought by her to assist her in keeping him away - if he was the only issue for the children.

A restraining order would have enabled police intervention, if required, and allowed the children to remain with her ... if he was the only problem. It is something that other abused women have done, to keep their children (and themselves) relatively safe.

I honestly do not believe that FACS would remove the children from both parents, unless both parents played a part in the reason for the children's removal. And as I stated before, it takes time to remove children ... time and coaching and parental plans, etc. They are only removed if none of that works.

I, too, would never judge a person in an abusive relationship. Just stating the possibilities as I see them.

What was the reason the children were removed from their biological mother? Does anyone actually for a fact know why?
Children that are removed from their homes is a very traumatic experience for them i would think. As far as i know the long term plan should always be to reunite them with biological family unless a bio family does not want that or it isn't at all possible for very valid reasons. Did WT's bio mother want her children back at some stage if anyone knows that for a fact? There has never been much said in msm about the children's mother, but a lot said and focused on in media about WT's FF as we have seen. Very skewed reporting IMO. There are always both sides to a story.

 

[frogwell]

They may have been 'forced' to return home as they may have been served with search warrants of their premises in Sydney, and wanted/needed to be present at that stage of the investigation. MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

They may have been 'forced' to return home as they may have been served with search warrants of their premises in Sydney, and wanted/needed to be present at that stage of the investigation. MOO

I don&#8217;t believe that both parties have to be present, or either of them present at all, for a search warrant.

The police can come into your home or premises in the following circumstances:
When you give your consent;
If the police of&#64257;cer has a properly issued and detailed search warrant;
Without a warrant in situations where there is an emergency such as a person injured or about to be harmed;
If police have reasonable suspicion they may enter the premise to arrest or to detain someone who is there.

The police must tell you that they have a search warrant and that they are at the premises to conduct a search. They do not have to show you the search warrant unless you request to see it.
https://www.slatergordon.com.au/criminal-law/search-warrants

But IIRC the grandma&#8217;s house in Kendall had been sold &#8230; plus their daughter was under FACS rules, they were under FACS rules, and there was little more they could do to assist in Kendall. In fact, their continued emotional presence could be seen as somewhat of a hindrance to the police investigation imo, considering the places that needed to be searched, and searched again and again.

I would imagine that the police liaison person put pressure on them to go home. Perhaps FACS did, too, if they were concerned for the well-being of their daughter.

 

[sosocurious]

They may have been 'forced' to return home as they may have been served with search warrants of their premises in Sydney, and wanted/needed to be present at that stage of the investigation. MOO

3:10
https://soundcloud.com/daily-telegr...he-mum-and-dads-interview-part-2#c=205&t=0:00

D says I had been very stern in my response to people. I don't want to leave, I simply don't want to go. I was prepared to stay there indefinitely. To continue to search, support any ongoing searches..............
In the end it was the police that almost forced us to leave............................
That's an awful feeling..............through tears - I feel so guilty about leaving. Where was he, were they going to find him....................

Maybe not compelled.
Police may have simply recommended, encouraged, urged the family return to their own home.
Given there was another young child that's feelings did needed to be considered.

'My life has been shot to pieces since he went missing, I am practically (almost) homeless.
As someone mention up thread what does that have to do with William or his photo being on Schapelle's bag?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...her-THANKS-Schapelle-Corby.html#ixzz4id9RsrMl

 

[purpleandgreen]

Thanks, soso. I knew you'd have the links. You're so organised, methodical and objective. I envy you!

3:10
https://soundcloud.com/daily-telegr...he-mum-and-dads-interview-part-2#c=205&t=0:00

D says I had been very stern in my response to people. I don't want to leave, I simply don't want to go. I was prepared to stay there indefinitely. To continue to search, support any ongoing searches..............
In the end it was the police that almost forced us to leave............................
That's an awful feeling..............through tears - I feel so guilty about leaving. Where was he, were they going to find him....................

Maybe not compelled.
Police may have simply recommended, encouraged, urged the family return to their own home.
Given there was another young child that's feelings did needed to be considered.

'My life has been shot to pieces since he went missing, I am practically (almost) homeless.
As someone mention up thread what does that have to do with William or his photo being on Schapelle's bag?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...her-THANKS-Schapelle-Corby.html#ixzz4id9RsrMl

 

[frogwell]

3:10
https://soundcloud.com/daily-telegr...he-mum-and-dads-interview-part-2#c=205&t=0:00

D says I had been very stern in my response to people. I don't want to leave, I simply don't want to go. I was prepared to stay there indefinitely. To continue to search, support any ongoing searches..............
In the end it was the police that almost forced us to leave............................
That's an awful feeling..............through tears - I feel so guilty about leaving. Where was he, were they going to find him....................

Maybe not compelled.
Police may have simply recommended, encouraged, urged the family return to their own home.
Given there was another young child that's feelings did needed to be considered.

'My life has been shot to pieces since he went missing, I am practically (almost) homeless.
As someone mention up thread what does that have to do with William or his photo being on Schapelle's bag?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...her-THANKS-Schapelle-Corby.html#ixzz4id9RsrMl

Well, it's the story behind the story isn't it? What I think NC wants to get across is that the FP's are not his real family, members of his real family are devastated to the point of breakdown that WT went missing while in the FP's care, and that she is angry and hurt. But none of this can be fully covered anywhere in MSM. MOO

 

[Warshawski]

Well, it's the story behind the story isn't it? What I think NC wants to get across is that the FP's are not his real family, members of his real family are devastated to the point of breakdown that WT went missing while in the FP's care, and that she is angry and hurt. But none of this can be fully covered anywhere in MSM. MOO

Spot On (In My Most Humble Opinion) Froggie. Thanks for all your Comms ..

 

[matey]

Well, it's the story behind the story isn't it? What I think NC wants to get across is that the FP's are not his real family, members of his real family are devastated to the point of breakdown that WT went missing while in the FP's care, and that she is angry and hurt. But none of this can be fully covered anywhere in MSM. MOO

Because William disappeared while in the care of foster parents, I have often wondered why his sister is still in the care of the foster parents (as she would be missing William terribly and all alone, as in an only child situation),,,

As bio mum has a new partner and 2 more beautiful children in this new relationship and can prove to be better equipped to offer William's sister a better life than the previous one with their bio dad, I wonder if there would be a possibility for her to ever have William's sister back in her care full-time at some stage in the years to come? :thinking:

 

[Wexford]

This case has highlighted for me my own prejudices about what happens to kids in the foster system and what I think might be the difference between biological and carer bonds with children. I have been observing a family I know quite well who have three long term foster kids in their care. They will be with them til 18 unless they are restored to their families. One won't be restored at all. They have good lives and the foster parents are comfortabley off. I do notice that the foster parents seem quite detached from the children's issues. They don't seem to feel responsible for the children in their care's behaviour, as if it was all a part of who the child was before the child came to live with them. I don't see them torn up about the kids having issues, not doing homework, etc. They don't seem to lose sleep like most parents do worrying at different times about their kids and I have never seen the children's huge issues ever get in the way of the foster Dad running his company or the foster Mum training and doing her competitive sport. Any issues just seem to be reported in government payed for counselling sessions. The kids call them Mum and Dad and the foster parents have acceptance that 2 of the children may not grow up with them. Recently a child around WT's age came to live with them due to FACS needing crisis accomadation for the child. He is a beautiful child and he had a permanent carer however she became pregnant after having the child live with her since he was an infant. She didn't want him anymore. As I looked at him, I wondered how she could have made that decision. Didn't she feel as bonded to him as he was to her? Her drive to be able to accomodate her biological child was far greater than the bond she had with this little boy. There is no judgement, just my perspective on what I observed. The other kids I previously mentioned are in a loving, stable home with their needs met, but I observe a difference in the bonding of biological parents and carers and I noticed that carers are supported much more readily with kids who have issues and are not measured by FACS with the same level of responsibilities for the outcomes of the children the way biological parents are. MOO

I have seen two different sides to foster care. One family I know has several kids including babies (and their own older kids). Some full time, some emergency and respite. The kids are loved as if they were their own. In fact in the case of at least one child who was very long term, most didnt even realise he was a foster child. I also have known of a foster family with three kids (around 10, 11 and 12) and it was blatantly obvious that there was a distinct lack of care shown by the foster parent to the point where it was not only obvious to us parents at the school but also obvious that even teachers and staff at the school were dismayed by the lack of care shown. In fact the teachers and staff went to a lot of trouble to make up for the lack of care. The kids were very obviously traumatised and there were of course behavioural issues which left most in no doubt of some of the trauma these kids had faced. I dare say it is hard to place 3 kids of that age together and I can only assume there is decent financial compensation. My view of a foster parent before seeing this was that all foster parents were like the first family and treated the kids as their own. My eyes were certainly opened by the second family. I can only assume that there are some who do foster care simply for the financial benefits. In no way am I saying this in regards to William's foster parents, only in response to Frogwell's comment about types of foster parents and my experience of extreme differences in foster families I know of.

 

[frogwell]

I have seen two different sides to foster care. RSBM

I agree there are different motivations and a wide spectrum of experiences. There were posts referring to the NC article about how she finds herself nearly homeless since WT's disappearance and what seems like contempt for the FP's about being able to get on with various aspects of their lives. It made me think about examples of fostering I had seen in my life and the way carers, biological or otherwise may bond with children. Not denying love and care for the children in a foster setting at all, but a difference in the bond. MOO

 

[louisepiglet]

I have seen two different sides to foster care. One family I know has several kids including babies (and their own older kids). Some full time, some emergency and respite. The kids are loved as if they were their own. In fact in the case of at least one child who was very long term, most didnt even realise he was a foster child. I also have known of a foster family with three kids (around 10, 11 and 12) and it was blatantly obvious that there was a distinct lack of care shown by the foster parent to the point where it was not only obvious to us parents at the school but also obvious that even teachers and staff at the school were dismayed by the lack of care shown. In fact the teachers and staff went to a lot of trouble to make up for the lack of care. The kids were very obviously traumatised and there were of course behavioural issues which left most in no doubt of some of the trauma these kids had faced. I dare say it is hard to place 3 kids of that age together and I can only assume there is decent financial compensation. My view of a foster parent before seeing this was that all foster parents were like the first family and treated the kids as their own. My eyes were certainly opened by the second family. I can only assume that there are some who do foster care simply for the financial benefits. In no way am I saying this in regards to William's foster parents, only in response to Frogwell's comment about types of foster parents and my experience of extreme differences in foster families I know of.

I too know of a foster family who are in it for the money. It is the father's second marriage and we knew him when he was married to his first wife. They had three children and he called them horrible names and treated them like nuisances. Now he has remarried and they have discovered the financial benefits of fostering. This guy has never been gainfully employed his whole life but is living a very comfortable life from the income from fostering.

 

[purpleandgreen]

But, a big thank you to all of those genuinely loving, caring and nurturing foster parents, just like William's are.