Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #45

[SouthAussie]

The service provider would be the same unless they used a local SIM card.

The photos were taken with a camera. No SIM card required. I think a person changes the time in a digital camera manually? And FM has already said that all of her photos are 2 hours behind - which likely also can be verified.

Digital Camera Instructions: How to Set up Date and Time - Steve's Digicams


(I was speaking of 'online' devices only, and I shouldn't have. Because the photo was taken with a camera. I have now edited my previous post to exclude the online info. It is not applicable.)

 

[Karinna]

The media outlet has also reported that a digital forensic expert will assist police by examining the EXIF data of the photo, which is similar to a ‘digital fingerprint’.
The EXIF data of a photo is stored inside the digital file of the image and gives more accurate information than a timestamp, as a camera’s date and time setting may be incorrect.

The timing of the photo is a critical piece of the puzzle and helps to establish a window of time during which the young boy disappeared.

Neighbour Ron Chapman told the inquest he saw a boy wearing a Spiderman suit being driven away in a car that morning in Kendall.

The inquest has been told the window during which the boy was taken away would have been between 9:37am, when the photograph was believed to have been taken and 10:57am, when his foster mother called triple zero.

The EXIF data, if different, could change that window drastically.
Doubts raised over critical last photo of William Tyrrell

 

[Freddo Frog]

I’m agreeing with you. It’s been a process of elimination and that’s exactly what’s happening.
The issue with the time stamp too must be ‘put to bed’ before the perp is bought in for justice.

Just throwing around ideas based on the bolded above...

What if the purpose of the 'time stamp' focus now is to prevent someone who may soon be arrested or implicated from claiming William was somewhere else that day and therefore they cannot be responsible for the allegations? Or, what if that person claimed they were not where they said they were that day, yet there is some CCTV of them in the area on the same day the photograph of William on the verandah was taken? Maybe this focus on verifying, without doubt, the authenticity of the photo is a way to close the net tighter on someone? A big fat public 'you are lying' statement is surely enough to get someone to cave..

All my own opinion, and random thoughts.

 

[Karinna]

Just throwing around ideas based on the bolded above...

What if the purpose of the 'time stamp' focus now is to prevent someone who may soon be arrested or implicated from claiming William was somewhere else that day and therefore they cannot be responsible for the allegations? Or, what if that person claimed they were not where they said they were that day, yet there is some CCTV of them in the area on the same day the photograph of William on the verandah was taken? Maybe this focus on verifying, without doubt, the authenticity of the photo is a way to close the net tighter on someone? A big fat public 'you are lying' statement is surely enough to get someone to cave..

All my own opinion, and random thoughts.

Someone could be lying or someone may not be lying? If LE checked the photo's authenticity forensically previously why would it now be in question? If certain people are being truthful about it there is no need for concern and all will be fine IMO.

 

[Warshawski]

Interesting ... but it is not really confusing when a time stamp is 'corrected' on a photo. I can see that the Coroner would want it verified though by a phone expert, as an essential part of the inquest.

I take kabillions of photos on my phone. I also edit a lot of photos on my phone - generally cropping them to take out something in the background, or to pull the subject closer, or to intensify the colours, whatever. The phone then shows a corrected time/date for the photo. Not everyone knows that.
Sitting down for a cup of tea would be an understandable time to flick through photos and edit whatever a person wants to edit. Most people who do it can edit a photo in seconds/one minute. And I seriously do it often.

I think when the police contact the phone manufacturer for closer investigation, this is what they will find. Has FM ever said what time she took the photo? I don't believe I have ever seen that. Just that she took it that morning.

Also, there are at least a couple of witnesses who heard the children playing well after 7:39am.


The elderly man told the inquest before William went missing he'd sat on his veranda with toast and tea between 9am and 9.30am and could hear children playing.
Neighbour's conversation with grandma after William Tyrrell's disappearance

Around this time (9am), Judy Wilson, whose property was just metres from William's grandmother's yard, heard the two children playing before she took off to run errands in town.
The day William Tyrrell vanished

I understand what you're saying SA - people edit photos for sure.

However, the issue as I see it (and perhaps also the Coroner) is that the initial photo was taken at around 7.30 am. Not at around 9.30 am as always presented.
(Edits of photos have to occur AFTER the initial taking)

Why would that time not have been corrected ?

 

[Warshawski]

If you were also related to someone who worked at Herons creek timber yard...

I'd be really questioning weather litigation for compensation was the way to move forward.

? is someone related Puggle ?
(Typo edited )

 

[Freddo Frog]

Someone could be lying or someone may not be lying? If LE checked the photo's authenticity forensically previously why would it now be in question? If certain people are being truthful about it there is no need for concern and all will be fine IMO.

See, this is what I find confusing about the whole time stamp focus, I am sure this would have been checked out earlier. I cannot fully comprehend why this and why now, but I am sure there is a reason for it. In saying that, this sure is one very bizarre coronial inquest that continues to throw up more questions for me than answers.

 

[Georgy]

If you were also related to someone who worked at Herons creek timber yard...

I'd be really questioning weather litigation for compensation was the way to move forward.

Who is related???

 

[SouthAussie]

I understand what you're saying SA - people edit photos for sure.

However, the issue as I see it (and perhaps also the Coroner) is that the initial photo was taken at around 7.30 am. Not at around 9.30 am as always presented.
(Edits of photos have to occur AFTER the initial taking)

Why would that time not have been corrected ?

Because they had never adjusted the time in the camera, probably. Or other innocent reasons.

the camera may not have been adjusted for local time;
the computer may have incorrect settings
the mistake may be in the report itself (a product of input error, for example).
NoCookies | The Australian

 

[Georgy]

If you were also related to someone who worked at Herons creek timber yard...

I'd be really questioning weather litigation for compensation was the way to move forward.

Isnt the sawmill at herons creek an old sawmill that is not in use anymore?

 

[Warshawski]

But a new document from the 2000-page brief of evidence reveals a “created time” for the image of 7.39am, and a “corrected time” of 9.37am, and police have been unable to explain the confusion.

The report, obtained by The Australian, was generated by X-Ways forensic software. It reveals the image is a .jpg created on a digital camera, and it says: “Created: 12/09/2014 07:39:54. Corrected time: 12/09/2014 09:37:44.”

Just wow. I am looking very much forward to hearing more about this. Is anyone here good with this stuff?

I was blown away when I saw this today (at work & couldn't post etc) but thinking now - what if photo was taken on mobile phone with incorrect time set ?
Just a thought - bland I think, as surely police would've checked that, but so many things seem to be outside of the 'surely they would've' !!

 

[Karo]

I got the impression Hallelujah was only sung at this assembly.[

.

School choirs use assemblies for practice, many schools enter state and area eisteddfords, maybe this was one of their songs

 

[Thebottomline]

Isnt the sawmill at herons creek an old sawmill that is not in use anymore?

Georgy , you seem to know a lot , maybe you could get yourself verified as an insider

 

[SouthAussie]

I am very familiar with that one, especially considering I love Jeff Buckley and his live version, but I highly doubt Cohen's lyrics would be suitable for primary school-aged children...

Well I've heard there was a secret chord
That David played and it pleased the Lord
But you don't really care for music, do you?
Well it goes like this:
The fourth, the fifth, the minor fall and the major lift
The baffled king composing Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Well your faith was strong but you needed proof
You saw her bathing on the roof
Her beauty and the moonlight overthrew ya
She tied you to her kitchen chair
And she broke your throne and she cut your hair
And from your lips she drew the Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
But baby I've been here before
I've seen this room and I've walked this floor
You know, I used to live alone before I knew ya
And I've seen your flag on the marble arch
And love is not a victory march
It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Well there was a time when you let me know
What's really going on below
But now you never show that to me do ya
But remember when I moved in you
And the holy dove was moving too
And every breath we drew was Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Maybe there's a God above
But all I've ever learned from love
Was how to shoot somebody who outdrew ya
And it's not a cry that you hear at night
It's not somebody who's seen the light
It's a cold and it's a broken Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Hallelujah
Source: LyricFind

Thanks for posting those Leonard Cohen version lyrics. Not appropriate for primary school children at all.

 

[Thebottomline]

Someone could be lying or someone may not be lying? If LE checked the photo's authenticity forensically previously why would it now be in question? If certain people are being truthful about it there is no need for concern and all will be fine IMO.

Deleted

 

[Georgy]

Georgy , you seem to know a lot , maybe you could get yourself verified as an insider

Maybe i can..but do i have to?

 

[Thebottomline]

Maybe i can..but do i have to?

No not up to me to say so but up to you. Just maybe if would give us more insight from someone in the know. I say this genuinely.

 

[SouthAussie]

Don’t think song lyrics are relevant .Getting a bit crazy here

Did you follow that they were speaking of the religious Hallelujah not being appropriate for a public school earlier? Then Freddo was stating that the other Hallelujah (that stormbird suggested) lyrics also were not appropriate. That's all.

This all followed on from the question of how many assemblies did they sing Hallelujah at.

We are not adding to any crazy.

 

[Warshawski]

I'm actually surprised that this information is being released prior to it being released by the Coroner.

IMO - it has to be deliberate. ( otherwise there's an internal enquiry needed on who's feeding who / what & why )

 

[Karinna]

See, this is what I find confusing about the whole time stamp focus, I am sure this would have been checked out earlier. I cannot fully comprehend why this and why now, but I am sure there is a reason for it. In saying that, this sure is one very bizarre coronial inquest that continues to throw up more questions for me than answers.

Exactly, i'm not sure why this is in question now either? I believe a coronial inquest is kind of a fact gathering hearing and what can be ascertained from it and likely in which direction the investigation could go from that point?
I think the case of missing William Tyrrell will always have lots of questions surrounding what happened as long as there are no further answers as happens in all unresolved missing child cases, and it would be great if the investigators would get a break in the case and find the poor child.