Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - # 5

[they'll get you]

I just shudder to think a father and guardian of 3 boys would abduct a little kiddy.
I know it's possible but it's hard to imagine he hadn't attempted something like this before.
He would have had many opportunities but never was caught or reported.
I imagine those boys have been questioned.

 

[SouthAussie]

"I can't say I look at any locals differently, but I guess you never know," Kendall Cellars owner Rheannon Chapman says.

"There is that fear that you never know. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors?

"I think the police side of things, the suspicion, was there straight away," she says.

"Just little things like looking at our CCTV. We were told not to delete anything and that was the next day.

*********

"It's just a normal neighbourhood," resident Richard Wilson says.

"We have had a couple of Christmas parties on the next door neighbour's block and everyone is invited. But you don't spend your life looking at what other people are doing."

"We have had police through three times," Richard Wilson says.

"Every cupboard, they have had a look in the ceilings, have had a look in the boots of cars."

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/missing-william-tyrell-casts-dark-shadow-over-town-20141031-11fbdi.html

 

[they'll get you]

My friend has her 2 grandchildren who were taken from her drug effected daughter. The little boy was born with withdrawals and has many emotional problems, he is a real handful! The pic of William on the patio often makes me wonder what feelings he was trying to express.

 

[deugirtni]

The problem (IMHO) with this theory is that:
i)this is a tiny town of 750 where people allow(ed) their kids to go freely up until this happened
ii)dead end street
iii)large yards, perhaps older folks, perhaps retired with no kids
iv)one way in to that street
v)surely to be seen
vi)it was a surprise visit .. meaning that the family 'surprised grandmother' with their visit, I am assuming that means that even grandma didn't know they were coming.. otehrwise.. what does 'surprise visit' mean exactly.. surprised the community? surprised the neighbours? Don't think so. MOO
vii)apparently only a 5 minute window of opportunity
viii)couldnt' be sitting in wait, since surprise visit, and since only a 5 minute opportunity - we'd have to put allllll of these unlikely points together and add to them that this person would also have to be a pedophile (unless it was targeted, and if it was targeted, then the only people with an interest have already been heavily looked into, according to reports)

If you were looking for a random kid to steal and abuse, why sit waiting in an area without many kids, with big huge properties, with limited get-away accessibility, with the chance to be seen from windows? People can steal your wallet because there are lots of people (otherwise, you would be leary of anyone even coming that close to your person).

The area is tree filled. You could probably be out of sight in 10 seconds from a person at a fixed point like a window or a seat on a balcony.

I don't know why people are so resistant to the idea that someone could have taken him unseen and unheard. I understand that kind of necessitates an abductor who was laying in wait, maybe just to grab a glimpse, maybe with the plan to take the child(ren) if they could. But as far as logistics go, I don't think it was particularly difficult for someone to be out of sight in the timeframe suggested. People can steal your wallet bumping into you on the train without you realising. They can certainly be out of your sight in seconds in a house surrounded by trees especially if you don't know you should be looking.

 

[Panda]

My friend has her 2 grandchildren who were taken from her drug effected daughter. The little boy was born with withdrawals and has many emotional problems, he is a real handful! The pic of William on the patio often makes me wonder what feelings he was trying to express.

I got the impression from his photos that he's quite a handful - cheeky and adventurous and a bit of a risk taker (for a 3 year old I mean). That's one of the reasons I thought he may have wandered off.

 

[Panda]

The problem (IMHO) with this theory is that:
i)this is a tiny town of 750 where people allow(ed) their kids to go freely up until this happened
ii)dead end street
iii)large yards, perhaps older folks, perhaps retired with no kids
iv)one way in to that street
v)surely to be seen
vi)it was a surprise visit .. meaning that the family 'surprised grandmother' with their visit, I am assuming that means that even grandma didn't know they were coming.. otehrwise.. what does 'surprise visit' mean exactly.. surprised the community? surprised the neighbours? Don't think so. MOO
vii)apparently only a 5 minute window of opportunity
viii)couldnt' be sitting in wait, since surprise visit, and since only a 5 minute opportunity - we'd have to put allllll of these unlikely points together and add to them that this person would also have to be a pedophile (unless it was targeted, and if it was targeted, then the only people with an interest have already been heavily looked into, according to reports)

If you were looking for a random kid to steal and abuse, why sit waiting in an area without many kids, with big huge properties, with limited get-away accessibility, with the chance to be seen from windows? People can steal your wallet because there are lots of people (otherwise, you would be leary of anyone even coming that close to your person).

And herein lies the problem. I totally agree with your synopsis - it doesn't make sense, but what else does it leave? As you say, unless an abduction was targeted and if it was, anyone with an interest would have been looked into. Maybe, just maybe, the police do have something in this regard, but are unable to come forward as they are trying to build a case behind the scenes. Perhaps they have found something, but it's only circumstantial.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think that surprise visit means that it wasn’t previously scheduled. That maybe the family hadn’t planned to come until Christmas, but as grandma wasn’t well and was on her own now, they rang her and said “Look mum, we’re going to come up for a long weekend next weekend, is that okay? We’d like to do a few things around the house for you, do the laundry, get some groceries for you, freeze a few meals, let the kids run around and play.”

I’m not sure that a family of four would just arrive completely unannounced on an unwell person’s doorstep and say “Surprise!”

And it could be why grandma was trying to get the washing machine fixed that week when she was feeling unwell.

 

[Belz]

Finally caught up lol!

So I mentioned this in thread 1 and I wanted to touch on it again because the other day while I was outside, I played a game with myself to see what I could recall from what I saw 5 minutes earlier. So while my hubby was working away I basically just did normal things while paying attention to what was driving down my street or the street I can see from my front yard. After 5 minutes or so I thought to myself, okay what did I see drive past? Honestly for the life of me, I could not recall anything except one car but that was only because it kept doing loops of my street and another. The point I am trying to make here is that unless someone in a vehicle was doing something out of the ordinary (like driving loops like the car I mentioned) you probably wouldn't remember them later on. So when the police questioned neighbours (or even mum and grandma) about if they saw anyone or anything, they may have seen a car but might not remember now (I hope that makes sense).

Honestly, I am getting to the point where I think it was a :ufo: because how else does a 3YO just vanish into thin air...

 

[another.com]

Finally caught up lol!

So I mentioned this in thread 1 and I wanted to touch on it again because the other day while I was outside, I played a game with myself to see what I could recall from what I saw 5 minutes earlier. So while my hubby was working away I basically just did normal things while paying attention to what was driving down my street or the street I can see from my front yard. After 5 minutes or so I thought to myself, okay what did I see drive past? Honestly for the life of me, I could not recall anything except one car but that was only because it kept doing loops of my street and another. The point I am trying to make here is that unless someone in a vehicle was doing something out of the ordinary (like driving loops like the car I mentioned) you probably wouldn't remember them later on. So when the police questioned neighbours (or even mum and grandma) about if they saw anyone or anything, they may have seen a car but might not remember now (I hope that makes sense).

Honestly, I am getting to the point where I think it was a :ufo: because how else does a 3YO just vanish into thin air...

I had just finished typing an almost identical post In the previous thread, but as the thread got renewed and moved over before I got the chance to send it!
I was saying how I am awful at noticing what is happening in my own street. I live in a safe, very quiet area. I am probably complacent because I have become so comfortable in my environment,but I would not be able to remember what cars, neighbours, kids etc I might have seen or driven by today, yesterday, the day before etc. unless, as you say, someone was doing something repetitive or I actually had a conversation with someone, but even then I might not necessarily remember what type of car/ colour/ distinguishing features of people.
To make even more of a point of how oblivious I have been of my own surroundings, I was once told by my elderly neighbour that her husband had gone missing through the night, he had wandered off and either became confused or too tired to walk home. He was thankfully found safe the next morning, but throughout the night there were police coming and going, an ambulance came for the wife as she became distressed and unwell. I did not see or hear a thing. I knew nothing of it until she told me about it weeks later. And our houses are metres apart. I was also told that some dicey people had been living in our street (have since been evicted by their landlord), anyway, they were apparently into stealing cars, and had apparently brought stolen cars back to my street and had them parked on their driveway/ front lawn. I also had no idea about that! Only after I was told about it going on did I think back and remember noticing that there was always at least one or more car on their driveway/ front lawn. At the time if it happening I would have assumed they were either car enthusiasts, always had visitors, had no space in their single garage. I couldn't tell you what types of cars I had seen or how many. The goings on there had also attracted police activity too on and off... Also un noticed by me!
As I say, a lot of my being oblivious probably comes from feeling safe where I live (which is nice), and I think some if it just comes from being in my own little world. Don't get me wrong, I know who my neighbours are and if we happen to be outside doing the garden or whatever at the same time we will have a friendly chat, but it's not like I remember when I was a kid and neighbours were always popping round to so and so's place for a cuppa and everyone knew all the in's and out's of what everyone in the neighbourhood had for breakfast last week. If I live on that street in Kendall I think I could safely say I would be useless to police in trying to recall the cars/ people I had seen around that morning!

 

[Belz]

If I live on that street in Kendall I think I could safely say I would be useless to police in trying to recall the cars/ people I had seen around that morning!

Me too! Unless something strange happens, your brain doesn't really remember something. Obviously some people have great photographic memories but majority of us don't.

 

[Blessed]

To be honest, i wouldn't put much weight on what neighbors didn't see. Unless they are sitting there staring out the window, or had been in the garden the whole morning, i doubt they would notice much of anything.

 

[another.com]

I would remember if some one was being brazenly odd, like continually driving past, slowing down, stopping to talk to children, standing around for no apparent reason. I would certainly pick up on odd behaviour (IF I was hanging around out on the street myself) But I would not remember seemingly normal comings and goings of cars.
In saying all of this, I have such a different property layout to what WTs grandmothers home in Kendall looks like. The front access to my home is purely used to come in or go out, we do not tend to hang out in the front garden or even front section of our home looking out of windows, so that is most likely why I missed out on all the excitement of my street I mentioned above. And if I have children playing at my house I don't generally need to be aware of the environment outside of my immediate home and back garden, the whole back section is fully contained with 6ft fence and locked gate, from what I can see of Benaroon drive in Kendall it seems a very open, un fency kind of environment. But I can't say for sure if that was my street if that would change my 'observational skills'... IMO if you are in an area where you feel safe you probably aren't watching out for all the unsavoury characters that exist 'elsewhere' in the world

 

[truth is out there]

I'm just catching up on all the posts.

I agree, this case is quite bizarre. It really is like he disappeared into thin air! I think we don't know how the minds of pedophiles work. Do they operate mainly out of chance encounters? At present I am thinking it was by pure chance that everything lined up in favour of the pedophile. It just seems like such an unlikely place for a child to be taken - but then again maybe that is how they work.

 

[truth is out there]

Just reading a few articles on paedophiles - would be very hard to pick one. Here is a link to one article I just read:

http://www.news.com.au/national/cou...he-warning-signs/story-fncynjr2-1226722713261

 

[Belz]

To be honest, i wouldn't put much weight on what neighbors didn't see. Unless they are sitting there staring out the window, or had been in the garden the whole morning, i doubt they would notice much of anything.

I was more so leaning towards if mum was in the kitchen making tea and had a full view of the driveway, if a car drove past she probably wouldn't have even thought twice or acknowledged it - especially when she wouldn't know the neighbouring cars and what was out of place in Kendall.

 

[deugirtni]

I would think the less cars that a neighbourhood is used to having on its dead-end street, the more a vehicle or its noise would be likely to be noticed. Wasn't there also a neighbour out mowing his lawn on a ride-on mower (presumed since the lots are so large)? I dont' think it is as unlikely as most may think, for a vehicle to be heard or seen in an area such as that. MOO

 

[Makara]

I was more so leaning towards if mum was in the kitchen making tea and had a full view of the driveway, if a car drove past she probably wouldn't have even thought twice or acknowledged it - especially when she wouldn't know the neighbouring cars and what was out of place in Kendall.

That's a very good point Belz.

 

[deugirtni]

Could be, but to me, that would not be a 'surprise' visit, it would be a planned visit. And I think Grandma would need her washing machine whether or not she was expecting company. In looking at her yard and such, she seems the type to keep everything in good order. It would sure be interesting to know whether Grandma had mentioned the impending arrival of toddlers to the washing machine repairman when he first came to look at the problem machine.

I think that surprise visit means that it wasn’t previously scheduled. That maybe the family hadn’t planned to come until Christmas, but as grandma wasn’t well and was on her own now, they rang her and said “Look mum, we’re going to come up for a long weekend next weekend, is that okay? We’d like to do a few things around the house for you, do the laundry, get some groceries for you, freeze a few meals, let the kids run around and play.”

I’m not sure that a family of four would just arrive completely unannounced on an unwell person’s doorstep and say “Surprise!”

And it could be why grandma was trying to get the washing machine fixed that week when she was feeling unwell.

 

[Preye]

I was more so leaning towards if mum was in the kitchen making tea and had a full view of the driveway, if a car drove past she probably wouldn't have even thought twice or acknowledged it - especially when she wouldn't know the neighbouring cars and what was out of place in Kendall.

Or a trailbike down the dirt tracks hidden in the bushes then on foot..

 

[ozazure]

Firstly, the "someone" was a 3 year old child. A 3 year old who was in unfamiliar surroundings, being watched over by a mother and grandmother, wearing a highly conspicuous outfit, full of 3 year old energy and jest. Children of that age don't have the capacity to sit still, or to be quiet for any lengthy period of time, unless they are asleep, and they don't have a developed attention span, in fact they don't have very much developed at all, in comparison to adults. Given William was in unfamiliar territory, surrounded by bush, is even more reason that his caregivers in all probability would have been watching him more carefully to ensure he didn't wander off, get bitten by a snake, or whatever.

Secondly, given the nature of the location, with houses in sight, it would be highly unlikely no-one at all would have witnessed or heard something unusual such as a car. In fact, most especially being such a quiet neighbourhood - people notice when something is "different" in their street. Further, neighbours who are not used to having small children in their street, tend to take more notice when they are there (because it is different or unusual).

Thirdly, someone stealing your wallet by bumping into you on a train not even remotely similar to this scenario.

My point is, both plausible scenarios are becoming more and more implausible. I am only able to think of two cases where a child in that age group has been abducted during broad daylight hours from their residence who wasn't personally involved in some way with the child. One instance was from an apartment block, and the other from the front yard of a house - both from neighbours, who were drug users and had mental problems, in very different demographics. It didn't take the police long to ascertain who the culprits were. Children of that age group are usually abducted from their place of abode during the early hours of the morning, when everyone is asleep, as there is less chance of being caught. The police themselves are at a total loss to explain how no-one could have seen or heard anything, just as they are at a lost that they has been no evidence gleaned from the search, in either the abduction scenario, or the wandering off scenario. As a few people have pointed out, it would be very unusual for no evidence whatsoever to be found, such as fragments of material from his spiderman suit, or a lack of scent being picked up.

I think some people are only resistant to the idea because it is so unlikely - not that it couldn't have happened. Obviously something untoward happened to William, as we only have the 2 scenarios to work with, it could be either.

The someone I was referring to was a potential abductor, who can be on that bush track in under a minute. It is very easy to not see someone come from a hiding spot and disappear into a bush track in 60 seconds with your attention elsewhere. My point about the wallet is simply that you can be unaware of things happening right under your nose with your attention diverted elsewhere. The person with the wallet only has to be melting into the crowd when you realise it is gone and you will not see them - the abductor only has to have some trees and scrub blocking your view of them, or be down the curved road on the blind side, when you begin to scout around for William in the immediate vicinity. It is feasible in the timeframe that they could be very near or in a car 500 metres away in the cemetery carpark or Batar Creek rd if they acted quickly, before his family even wondered where W had got to. I do agree in general that wandering off and coming to harm from the family are more likely statistically, but being abducted without witnesses in a small timeframe is far from implausible given the location. I mean seriously, it is an almost ideal location, a bush track escape route that leads to what you have to assume is a largely unused carpark, mere metres from an unfenced yet leafy garden in a quiet street where you know the neighbours and it is reasonable to let children run about.

I still hope that someone who loves William was just hoping to get a glimpse and took him on impulse, and he will eventually be found safe.