Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #50

[Chrissy74]

Totally

I also meant to include why have we not been told what vehicles the postie had access to? I personally want to know if all of these vehicles had been subjected to forensic testing.

iMO & with respect 74 - speculation & re-examining is all we currently have. .
William, from all reports, was not a wanderer.

IF he thought was Daddy’s car & Maybe hid & jumped out - and then was run over - however I struggle with the fact that all that occurred ... silently & unseen... right up to the point of said victim being removed with nothing visible on / in the impact area (do you think PS saw & is protecting Postie ??)

all my own personal musings !

iMO & with respect 74 - speculation & re-examining is all we currently have. .
William, from all reports, was not a wanderer.

IF he thought was Daddy’s car & Maybe hid & jumped out - and then was run over - however I struggle with the fact that all that occurred ... silently & unseen... right up to the point of said victim being removed with nothing visible on / in the impact area (do you think PS saw & is protecting Postie ??)

all my own personal musings !

There are many theories posted all over social media that I find hard to imagine and sometimes second guess my own thoughts n gut feelings every time a new piece of information comes to light.. yes I think it’s a far stretch that William could possibly have been the victim of an unfortunate and unintentional accident but I always go by the words “never say never” so anything is possible.. if it weren’t then this case would have been solved by now.. going by everything that I’ve read, researched, contemplated, evaluated repeat, I’ve narrowed my thoughts on this down to a very short list of possibilities and people.. the more we throw into the mix the more complicated it becomes.. I’m keeping it simple and sticking to what I believe all seems to fall into place on that morning at that time

 

[Chrissy74]

Totally



There are many theories posted all over social media that I find hard to imagine and sometimes second guess my own thoughts n gut feelings every time a new piece of information comes to light.. yes I think it’s a far stretch that William could possibly have been the victim of an unfortunate and unintentional accident but I always go by the words “never say never” so anything is possible.. if it weren’t then this case would have been solved by now.. going by everything that I’ve read, researched, contemplated, evaluated repeat, I’ve narrowed my thoughts on this down to a very short list of possibilities and people.. the more we throw into the mix the more complicated it becomes.. I’m keeping it simple and sticking to what I believe all seems to fall into place on that morning at that time

And as for William not being a wanderer, perhaps by nature he wasn’t but I have 3 children and I’ve seen each of them do things in situations they normally wouldn’t do.. kids are curious no matter how well behaved we think or want them to be.. not that I’m implying anything but all it takes it something to spark that curiosity and off they go

 

[louisepiglet]

I cannot believe that PS would not have been looking out the front in anticipation of the post lady. He continued to pursue and harass her to such an extent that she had to take out an AVO. He made a fool of himself going to the post office in tears to declare his love for her. That morning his wife was going to be out. I would bet my bottom dollar he was watching to catch a glimpse of her. I can totally understand why Jubelin does not believe he saw nothing.

 

[Chrissy74]

I cannot believe that PS would not have been looking out the front in anticipation of the post lady. He continued to pursue and harass her to such an extent that she had to take out an AVO. He made a fool of himself going to the post office in tears to declare his love for her. That morning his wife was going to be out. I would bet my bottom dollar he was watching to catch a glimpse of her. I can totally understand why Jubelin does not believe he saw nothing.

Some discrete stalking perhaps.. I think Savage is a man of routine.. with all his morning walks and talks and cups of tea and fascination with cars coming in and out of the street that if anyone saw what happened that morning it would likely be Paul..

 

[stormbird]

Hi all! I haven't made any posts yet, just been following & reading with interest for a couple of years now.

One thing that I would like to know, that I haven't seen mentioned so far (please correct me if I'm wrong) is about Williams older sister.

Was she still outside playing when William disappeared? Or did she tire of the game and go up on the deck with FFM & FFG? If she was still playing outside, surely the FFM would ask Where did you last see William? Where was he hiding? Etc, etc. I'm just not sure if any of this has been asked on the thread. Even in the reenactment FFM just says 'it went quiet & then I started calling for William' Which seems to imply that she knew where the older sister was at the time.

CathyNSW,

I'd like to know more about William's sister too. The Nowhere Child podcast says that she was interviewed by police on 14 Sep 2014 (i.e. two days after William disappeared). And the next day, 15 Sep 2014, they walked her through the scene:
"They asked her when and where she last saw her brother. And she told them: they'd been out on the deck and he'd been roaring like a tiger, and then he ran off, and she didn't see him again." (Transcribed by me from "Love and Loss", Nowhere Child, ep.3, at about 31:00 or 32:00.)

From that, I take it that she remained on the deck while William jumped off and ran around the corner of the house. (In the early days it was reported they were both out playing hide-and-seek or whatever, but I think that description then changed over time.) I'd like to know what she meant by "he ran off". Might she have seen him heading off somewhere, or did she just mean he ran around the corner?

 

[MissMarpleAU]

Yes MOP Agree… I was always led to believe that surveillance warrants were very difficult to obtain....

I have a friend who works in surveillance (Police) who plants the bugs etc … but he is very tight lipped about it....

But I think they break in to your home to plant them as well …. as in, not placed while police are in the house talking to you etc.... Someone else may know more about this subject.....???

I’m not certain either but most local posties drive a scooter in fact I don’t think I can ever recall seeing a postie driving a van unless it was a courier

when I was driving up the coast and back I saw a postie in a van delivering mail to those houses in small towns on the highway.

 

[deugirtni]

Where are we up to ?? With the trial being extended into next week ...

I think there were 8 witnesses to be called

These are who we have heard from :
Beacroft
Gallyot
Savage
Dukes
Batchelor
Douiehi

So possibly 2 more to go?? Plus ?Jubes and ”Closing Arguments” .., (I do hope we get to hear a lot of what Cunneen says....)

Have I missed anyone???

Scott Cook
Mick Willing
For the Crown.

Then the Defence will commence.

The other day, didn't Cunneen complain about hearing about more evidence being brought forward by the prosecution with only a few hours' notice? Mightn't that indicate there may be more witnesses than initially expected? Just wondering.

 

[Sillybilly]

Police made secret recordings of William Tyrrell person of interest Paul Savage speaking to dead wife

"Don't tell anyone love, they're right after me. Sorry".

[...]

"You're just a little boy, you're nobody" and referring to a Sydney suburb close to where William's family lived.

But Detective Beacroft agreed the quality of that recording "wasn't great" and the Tyrrell strikeforce was "divided" about whether those words were spoken.

<bbm>

IF PS in fact said this, what opinions do members have on what this could be related to?

 

[deugirtni]

Police made secret recordings of William Tyrrell person of interest Paul Savage speaking to dead wife

<bbm>

IF PS in fact said this, what opinions do members have on what this could be related to?

To me, and only knowing what we've read in MSM or in court, he meant Jubelin. I believe Savage is almost around 20 years older than Jubelin and definitely old enough to be his father. Even though Jubelin is a man and not a little boy, I could see PS referring to him that way, because of his anger at the way he's been treated by him. imo.

 

[they'll get you]

“Paul Savage, we know, he’s a street stickybeak,” Jubelin told investigators. “His version of events was that he didn’t hear any of the commotion (in the street on the morning William disappeared.)

“His version of events, he went walking up into the bush, uphill, got a little bit lost, and came back and had a cup of tea.

“That makes me suspicious. It’s against his character. Someone invests so much time to look for (William) and simply goes into the house and has a cup of tea … that is strange.”

Jubelin looked at the circumstances surrounding the AVO.

“She (the post lady) had been stalked by Paul Savage,” he said.

“It got to the extent where he would come out and say I love you, turning up at the post office — crying shaking, saying we need to be together.

“He kept harassing her … police took out an AVO, he breached it, he was charged, he pleaded guilty.”

By Jubelin’s account, the “harassment” — which Savage denied to him — then stopped.

During that time, he said, Savage turned his attention to William’s foster grandmother, who lived opposite him, and had recently become widowed.

“He would turn up unannounced and just stand there and stare at her,” he said.

Two days before William disappeared, the court heard, the “post lady” was due to visit William’s foster nana on Benaroon Drive where William was staying when he went missing.

Jubelin wondered if Savage would have been “hyper-vigilant” and looking out for her.

NoCookies | The Australian
William Tyrell’s hunter Gary Jubelin is now the hunted

How was PS to know the postie was going to visit with FGM in two days time?
Was his nose getting rubbed into it and the two ‘untouchable women’ meeting and gossiping next door. I’m getting vibes FGM was a trouble maker as well and not really liked.

Dammit who’d live in Kendall?

 

[CathyNSW]

CathyNSW,

I'd like to know more about William's sister too. The Nowhere Child podcast says that she was interviewed by police on 14 Sep 2014 (i.e. two days after William disappeared). And the next day, 15 Sep 2014, they walked her through the scene:
"They asked her when and where she last saw her brother. And she told them: they'd been out on the deck and he'd been roaring like a tiger, and then he ran off, and she didn't see him again." (Transcribed by me from "Love and Loss", Nowhere Child, ep.3, at about 31:00 or 32:00.)

From that, I take it that she remained on the deck while William jumped off and ran around the corner of the house. (In the early days it was reported they were both out playing hide-and-seek or whatever, but I think that description then changed over time.) I'd like to know what she meant by "he ran off". Might she have seen him heading off somewhere, or did she just mean he ran around the corner?

Thank you Stormbird. Yes, that's all I was curious about. This poor little mite deserves all the privacy she can get.

 

[CathyNSW]

CathyNSW,

I'd like to know more about William's sister too. The Nowhere Child podcast says that she was interviewed by police on 14 Sep 2014 (i.e. two days after William disappeared). And the next day, 15 Sep 2014, they walked her through the scene:
"They asked her when and where she last saw her brother. And she told them: they'd been out on the deck and he'd been roaring like a tiger, and then he ran off, and she didn't see him again." (Transcribed by me from "Love and Loss", Nowhere Child, ep.3, at about 31:00 or 32:00.)

From that, I take it that she remained on the deck while William jumped off and ran around the corner of the house. (In the early days it was reported they were both out playing hide-and-seek or whatever, but I think that description then changed over time.) I'd like to know what she meant by "he ran off". Might she have seen him heading off somewhere, or did she just mean he ran around the corner?

Thank you Stormbird. Yes, I was curious about when she was interviewed. Obviously, FFM & the police would have spoken to her on the day, but if she was on the deck she would not have seen much. The poor little mite deserves all the privacy she can get.

 

[katydid23]

Three of the relevant conversations were recorded when warrants for listening devices — and the bugs themselves — were in place, meaning police were recording conversations at Savage’s house, as well as on his mobile phone and landline.

But Jubelin allegedly used his own phone to record the calls, mainly as a back-up, and his phone was not covered by the warrant.

The court has heard that the bugs in Savage’s house tended to produce recordings of “poor to very poor” quality.

Savage listens to Ray Hadley — a nice-and-loud radio talkshow — for hours every day, and not at a low volume. He is also a lonely widower who mutters to himself and to his dead wife, Heather, pretty much constantly.

The fourth recording was made when no warrants were in place. That would seem to be more serious, except that there had been a warrant. It had simply expired. A new one was soon issued.

On the face of it, this is not a detective “gone rogue”. He wasn’t chasing down a suspect who wasn’t already under surveillance.

Savage was very definitely under surveillance. The police had cameras in the bush around his house as well.

The court has heard that he, or rather his adult daughter, found one of the cameras and kept it for several weeks.

NoCookies | The Australian
William Tyrell’s hunter Gary Jubelin is now the hunted

Wow. so PS was already under surveillance by warrant, and Jubelin used his own phone for back up, and he loses his job and reputation over it?

 

[Chrissy74]

I k

How was PS to know the postie was going to visit with FGM in two days time?
Was his nose getting rubbed into it and the two ‘untouchable women’ meeting and gossiping next door. I’m getting vibes FGM was a trouble maker as well and not really liked.

Dammit who’d live in Kendall?

i get that vibe too

 

[they'll get you]

The old timers would remember sleuthing the area under where the side verandah is, the land falls away and there’s an area there to hide.
A perfect place for an old nosey neighbour to lay in hiding listening to what the women were saying.



Then around came William.

 

[Chrissy74]

The old timers would remember sleuthing the area under where the side verandah is, the land falls away and there’s an area there to hide.
A perfect place for an old nosey neighbour to lay in hiding listening to what the women were saying.

View attachment 230632

Then around came William.

Are you suggesting ps was actually on fgm’s property at that time in that area you pointed out just doing what he liked best which stickybeaking and listening in? And then when you wrote around cane William the hairs on my arms just stood up

 

[Chrissy74]

Ye

To me, and only knowing what we've read in MSM or in court, he meant Jubelin. I believe Savage is almost around 20 years older than Jubelin and definitely old enough to be his father. Even though Jubelin is a man and not a little boy, I could see PS referring to him that way, because of his anger at the way he's been treated by him. imo.

thats what I took out of his words when reading

 

[they'll get you]

I k

i get that vibe too

Curiously FGM keeps popping up as one who was not regarded in the area, Chapman mentioned her as well.

 

[they'll get you]

Are you suggesting ps was actually on fgm’s property at that time in that area you pointed out just doing what he liked best which stickybeaking and listening in? And then when you wrote around cane William the hairs on my arms just stood up

We sleuthed this long ago.
I can’t find the close-up but on the very right, where the verandah wraps around the house to where the land rises, under the verandah there is a perfect little area there to hide and listen.






Where the lattice is on the very left, under the verandah.

 

[they'll get you]

iirc FFC said William roared around the side of the house once or twice.
Who was he roaring at?
The person who took him.