Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #54

[JLZ]

Yes it does appear that BS was the focus with the previous investigator and information was leaked to the press back then. When Jubelin took over he seems to have discounted BS (although they still seem to have some animosity towards him - perhaps they are suspicious of all police for some reason) but he always refused to discuss POI's to the press so I guess that is why the general public were not aware that the focus had changed. However, now he is off the case it seems focus has changed again.

I don't agree GJ discounted BS when he took over. He has recently downplayed his then interest in BS, mentioning that he was against the raids happening at the time they did and pointing out that he wasn't in charge then. But he oversaw BS's arrest on the other matter and he made a big deal about BS being a suspect in William's disappearance while opposing BS's bail.

His method seems to be to personally focus on and pressure one suspect at a time. I don't necessarily think that he or the investigation lost all peripheral vision in doing so.

 

[deugirtni]

I don't agree GJ discounted BS when he took over. He has recently downplayed his then interest in BS, mentioning that he was against the raids happening at the time they did and pointing out that he wasn't in charge then. But he oversaw BS's arrest on the other matter and he made a big deal about BS being a suspect in William's disappearance while opposing BS's bail.

His method seems to be to personally focus on and pressure one suspect at a time. I don't necessarily think that he or the investigation lost all peripheral vision in doing so.

I am wondering if his recent downplaying of his then-interest in BS is in an effort to preemptively reduce any monetary penalties he might become subject to once BS's case against police goes to court. I am not sure if BS's lawsuit only named the NSWPD or if it also named individuals involved. jmo.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

It seems to me that the tactic is that the team is out collecting evidence that leads to POI(s) and that the team leader reviews all the evidence and finds his most likely suspect and concentrates on that one person. Once he has thoroughly investigated that person and has reached the conclusion that excludes that person, the leader would then move onto the next POI.

In most such unsolved murders where there is little evidence/no body,when it is eventually solved, it is frequently found that the perp was interviewed by junior officers and dismissed as a suspect early in the investigation.

It seems like a very valid and sensible tactic.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I am wondering if his recent downplaying of his then-interest in BS is in an effort to preemptively reduce any monetary penalties he might become subject to once BS's case against police goes to court. I am not sure if BS's lawsuit only named the NSWPD or if it also named individuals involved. jmo.

BS is taking NSWPOL to court, why add wishful thinking into it?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

It seems to me that the tactic is that the team is out collecting evidence that leads to POI(s) and that the team leader reviews all the evidence and finds his most likely suspect and concentrates on that one person. Once he has thoroughly investigated that person and has reached the conclusion that excludes that person, the leader would then move onto the next POI.

In most such unsolved murders where there is little evidence/no body,when it is eventually solved, it is frequently found that the perp was interviewed by junior officers and dismissed as a suspect early in the investigation.

It seems like a very valid and sensible tactic.

well said, some of these opinions are way off!

This thread is taking a strange turn, it seems now Jubelin is portrayed as some vigilante rogue cop who's targetted these poor poi's, and should be personally responsible for the conduct of the entire NSW police force and their investigation practices!
The general public are not aware of how often these internal investigations occur and can lead to charges and a trial, this one gained a lot of attention because Jubelin worked on WT's case, the most talked about disappearance in the country! I've followed other such investigations for personal reasons, they're common and to single Jubelin out like he's a oddity, is quite undeserving!

 

[Tinker Taylor]

well said, some of these opinions are way off!

This thread is taking a strange turn, it seems now Jubelin is portrayed as some vigilante rogue cop who's targetted these poor poi's, and should be personally responsible for the conduct of the entire NSW police force and their investigation practices!
The general public are not aware of how often these internal investigations occur and can lead to charges and a trial, this one gained a lot of attention because Jubelin worked on WT's case, the most talked about disappearance in the country! I've followed other such investigations for personal reasons, they're common and to single Jubelin out like he's a oddity, is quite undeserving!

"Jubelin is portrayed as some vigilante rogue cop who's targetted these poor poi's, and should be personally responsible for the conduct of the entire NSW police force and their investigation practices!"

Well, as we heard, the parents were the first to be grilled (as it should be). Then the investigation moved on to the next subject and to the next. If Jubelin is guilty of anything in this investigation, then it is simply of doing his job well.

This isn't about the WT investigation, there is something else going on that we are not privy to. Maybe a previous investigation, internal Police issue, or something in his private life.

 

[Blues Clues]

60 Minutes appear to have exaggerated the similarity of the two cars. PS's Pajero wasn't such a modern model and the colours were not the same imo. Silver Pajero and dark grey/green Range Rover IIRC. Still, to a 3yr old just the shape might be enough.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

"Jubelin is portrayed as some vigilante rogue cop who's targetted these poor poi's, and should be personally responsible for the conduct of the entire NSW police force and their investigation practices!"

Well, as we heard, the parents were the first to be grilled (as it should be). Then the investigation moved on to the next subject and to the next. If Jubelin is guilty of anything in this investigation, then it is simply of doing his job well.

This isn't about the WT investigation, there is something else going on that we are not privy to. Maybe a previous investigation, internal Police issue, or something in his private life.

There could be other factors involved, idk, and yes, everyone is asked the tough questions, especially close family members, neighbours and anyone who's visited the FGM's property.

But if anyone wants to gain perspective about these internal investigations and their occurrence, they're published when a trial is active, usually reported in the telegraph, little to no publicity otherwise but the public can follow if they want.
Jubelin thought this wasn't going to amount to charges, he was assured by the assistant commissioner it wouldn't be, but someone dug their heels in and it went to court, you'd be surprised how petty these charges can be.

 

[Blues Clues]

Gary Jubelin claims the recordings on his phone were for his own protection and not to further the investigation into Williams disappearance.
If that is true then this testimony from a junior officer given under oath is not to be believed?

 

[SouthAussie]

Weren't GJ and Lambert removed from the WT case after they had the physical spat, which would've been somewhere around August 2018?

No, I think it was January, from what I have seen... and after the December action (Coronial Investigation Scene Order, illegal recording of Savage).


Mr Jubelin said he was approached in January 2019 and removed from all duties after an internal investigation. He said he was banned from his former homicide squad office, moved to a different part of the building and told he should take sick leave.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...es-about-that-little-kid-20200212-p5404y.html

For four years, Detective Inspector Gary Jubelin led the team searching for the missing toddler after he vanished from his foster grandmother's house in Kendall, on the NSW north coast, on September 12, 2014.
Jubelin was let go from the search on January 22 this year after he was accused of making illegal recordings during his investigations.
Gary Jubelin was thrown off the investigation in search for missing toddler William Tyrrell | Daily Mail Online

 

[JLZ]

Gary Jubelin claims the recordings on his phone were for his own protection and not to further the investigation into Williams disappearance.
If that is true then this testimony from a junior officer given under oath is not to be believed?

View attachment 243108

I don't agree with your reasoning. Jubelin having made the recording for personal protection doesn't exclude the synopsis being relevant to the inquest, especially if the coroner asked for records of interviews with witnesses and POIs.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

There could be other factors involved, idk, and yes, everyone is asked the tough questions, especially close family members, neighbours and anyone who's visited the FGM's property.

But if anyone wants to gain perspective about these internal investigations and their occurrence, they're published when a trial is active, usually reported in the telegraph, little to no publicity otherwise but the public can follow if they want.
Jubelin thought this wasn't going to amount to charges, he was assured by the assistant commissioner it wouldn't be, but someone dug their heels in and it went to court, you'd be surprised how petty these charges can be.

"he was assured by the assistant commissioner it wouldn't be"
This person (David Hudson) wasn't asked if this is what he was told and why he said it if it was not the truth.

Wasn't there also evidence from Jubelin that he got the OK from senior police before doing the recordings?

 

[purpleandgreen]

"Jubelin is portrayed as some vigilante rogue cop who's targetted these poor poi's, and should be personally responsible for the conduct of the entire NSW police force and their investigation practices!"

Well, as we heard, the parents were the first to be grilled (as it should be). Then the investigation moved on to the next subject and to the next. If Jubelin is guilty of anything in this investigation, then it is simply of doing his job well.

This isn't about the WT investigation, there is something else going on that we are not privy to. Maybe a previous investigation, internal Police issue, or something in his private life.

Ambition, politics and tall poppies, as I've said before, TT.

 

[Wexford]

I don't agree GJ discounted BS when he took over. He has recently downplayed his then interest in BS, mentioning that he was against the raids happening at the time they did and pointing out that he wasn't in charge then. But he oversaw BS's arrest on the other matter and he made a big deal about BS being a suspect in William's disappearance while opposing BS's bail.

His method seems to be to personally focus on and pressure one suspect at a time. I don't necessarily think that he or the investigation lost all peripheral vision in doing so.

But the other matter is apparently unrelated and was 'flushed out' as a result of investigations into WT. It still needed to go to court if the evidence was there and the witnesses were willing and Jubelin did have some prior knowledge of this family so no doubt he was keen to see it through as well.
I don't think anyone lost peripheral vision, I just find it very interesting that the more obvious targets were not of apparent interest to him. I have no doubt the team pursued them all to some extent.
PS was not an obvious target and therefore would also be extremely difficult to make a case against yet Jubelin chose to pursue him. I think there is more to it. We know there are those who think no one cares about WT and just want to see it made a cold case and no doubt those who want it solved quickly. If Jubelin was so intent on PS then perhaps there was good reason even if it is only as a witness.

 

[Chrissy74]

Sorry to side step here but can anyone tell me if PS was ever questioned about whether or not he knew FA personally or if FA had done some work for PS around the house? I can’t recall if a link was ever made or attempted to be made between the 2

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, it also appears that Jubes was prepared to have his actions scrutinised by a Supreme Court judge if charges were laid against Savage. With the Coroner being across the investigation into Savage.

There is a subscriber only article here that says (paraphrasing):
Supreme and Federal Court judges had issued a number of warrants and extension warrants to record conversations inside Savage's home and inside Savage's vehicle, and to place tracking devices on Savage's vehicle and cameras in bushland around Savage's home.
Also - in December 2018 - it says they had been investigating Savage for 18 months at this point - Harriet Grahame also granted a Coronial Investigation Scene Order to search Savage's property and vehicle. (This would have been shortly before Jubes and Lambert were removed from the case.)

View attachment 243064

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

No, I think it was January, from what I have seen... and after the December action (Coronial Investigation Scene Order, illegal recording of Savage).

Mr Jubelin said he was approached in January 2019 and removed from all duties after an internal investigation. He said he was banned from his former homicide squad office, moved to a different part of the building and told he should take sick leave.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...es-about-that-little-kid-20200212-p5404y.html

For four years, Detective Inspector Gary Jubelin led the team searching for the missing toddler after he vanished from his foster grandmother's house in Kendall, on the NSW north coast, on September 12, 2014.
Jubelin was let go from the search on January 22 this year after he was accused of making illegal recordings during his investigations.
Gary Jubelin was thrown off the investigation in search for missing toddler William Tyrrell | Daily Mail Online

I don't recall hearing that Lambert was removed from the WT case in January 2019, the same time GJ was removed from the case? Is there a link to show that? I thought he had been moved to a different department and/or taken sick leave after the July/August 2018 blows with Jubelin?

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't recall hearing that Lambert was removed from the WT case in January 2019, the same time GJ was removed from the case? Is there a link to show that? I thought he had been moved to a different department and/or taken sick leave after the July/August 2018 blows with Jubelin?

Perhaps there is a link to my BBM in your post - that should answer your question.

 

[they'll get you]

Ambition, politics and tall poppies, as I've said before, TT.

Like a rooky cop who took offence at having to go through someone’s garbage.

 

[Chrissy74]

But the other matter is apparently unrelated and was 'flushed out' as a result of investigations into WT. It still needed to go to court if the evidence was there and the witnesses were willing and Jubelin did have some prior knowledge of this family so no doubt he was keen to see it through as well.
I don't think anyone lost peripheral vision, I just find it very interesting that the more obvious targets were not of apparent interest to him. I have no doubt the team pursued them all to some extent.
PS was not an obvious target and therefore would also be extremely difficult to make a case against yet Jubelin chose to pursue him. I think there is more to it. We know there are those who think no one cares about WT and just want to see it made a cold case and no doubt those who want it solved quickly. If Jubelin was so intent on PS then perhaps there was good reason even if it is only as a witness.

I have to agree with you there Wexford. Our perspective is based purely on information made available us via various (some reliable some not) sources however there is so much more information that hasn’t been released and it’s that information that investigators work off to put the pieces of the puzzle together. It may not be completely visible looking from the outside in but we place our trust in the ones with all the knowledge and experience. So for GJ to persue PS in such a way that it ultimately cost him his career then there has to be a reason much greater than what we can see and what we think.

 

[Warshawski]

Not if they are taken off the job due to some sort of problem - that's the case... I'm not against Gary, but come on - are we thinking no one else could give a handover? that's just ludicrous isn't it?

There’s all sorts of workplaces, and all sorts of ‘teams’ IMO. And certainly some where where one person actually does the job while many others fake up!

In this instance we’re not talking about a replacement for an Admin role (no offence intended to all the very important & capable occupants of that role & indeed they usually have hand-overs)

Its my opinion ( and leaving Jubelin totally out of this) a proper hand-over should be compulsory for the departing Lead Investigator of a serious crime, perhaps even here a murder investigation.
IMO it’s deserved of so much more than a simple debrief by ‘any’ member of the Team - if we’re genuinely committed to the business at hand. If not, why even have a Lead, with all the responsibility that comes with that role.