Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #58

[leopink74]

Do you think a child would die from falling over the railing? I would think that some broken bones would be inevitable, and maybe a concussion, broken back or neck, but death? How likely is that?

I imagine it would depend on how they fell and what they fell onto. And it is my understanding (I am not a medical professional so happy to be corrected), you can die instantly from a broken neck..

 

[JCB]

First post on WS in 4 or 5 years, it's been quite the crazy time in the past few months in regards to missing children. The young fella from Putty, little Cleo and of course the recent developments surrounding William's disappearance.

I'd echo the sentiments of Cleaver Greene in that clearly something fresh and compelling has been brought to the attention of police. This is an unusually narrow scope of investigation and given the high profile nature of this case and the well publicised and as the Commissioner has publicly stated, ill focused investigation, police are obviously VERY confident that they have it right this time.

I don't necessarily agree that this new information cannot have come from William's sister however. You'll have to forgive me as I'm not up to speed on the pseudonyms used during the inquest but the sister is now of an age (if I understand correctly, I've not paid close enough attention to the particulars of this case) where any information she provides is generally going to be viewed as more credible than any statement(s) given when she was much younger.

Interviewing children, particularly in cases where they may have been a party to particularly traumatic events, is an extremely delicate exercise. It's very difficult, if not impossible in some cases to elicit pertinent information without questioning methods that are likely to withstand the various legal challenges that they would inevitably face when the matter is brought to court. Interviewing a 10-13 year old is infinitely easier than interviewing a 5 or 6 year old.

Total speculation on my part as a lay observer in this case but it's entirely possible that William's sister is (or was at the time that the new information came to light) is now capable of a level of communication and recall that she can effectively give an unprompted and credible version of events without being asked leading questions which are likely to be legally problematic.

Of course there are no doubt countless other possible sources but to exclude William's sister as the source would be premature in my opinion.

I find it interesting that numerous people are advancing the accidental death and panicked disposal of the body theory. I understand how this conclusion could be reached but having been involved in numerous highly publicised matters in a precessional capacity, I'm acutely aware that police are experts in saying a lot, without saying much at all. Not a criticism at all, in fact it would be negligent of them to offer anything more than this.

Reading between the lines with regards to the statements police have made in recent days (read: total speculation on my part), I'd be surprised if this was not still a homicide investigation. There are certainly crimes attached the conduct that would be required to conceal a fatal, but accidental incident, but the language being used and the pretty much unprecedented and transparent access media outlets are being granted in relation to the search, it leads me to believe this is far more serious than potential charges of interfering with a corpse, obstruct police, perjury and so on (insert equivalent NSW offences here, my purview is strictly QLD biased). These are all serious offences, make no mistake, but to my mind and in my experience, they do not match up to the information being provided by police. I suspect that they believe something more sinister may have occurred.

I may well be proven to be totally off base with the above but it's where my mind sits at the moment. I suspect we will know a great deal more in the coming week or two. Feel free to revisit this thread to ridicule my version of events!

Touching on the somewhat surprising transparency of the current status of the investigation, I can't help but wonder if this is a subtle but very deliberate 'we got this very wrong and are making every attempt to clear those previously, but wrongly suspected of involvement in William's disappearance'. Formally clearing previous suspects at this stage of an investigation would be improper, but at the same time, going to great lengths to ensure that basically everyone knows who they are closing in on, is a tactic you rarely, if ever see. There may well be an element of psychologically squeezing the suspected party involved as well but to me it seems a thinly veiled call out that 'the neighbour across the street and the convicted sex offender down the road had nothing to do with this'.

<modsnip>

Regardless, I can only hope for as speedy a resolution as possible, for both William and family and swift justice to anyone who may be criminally involved in his disappearance.

 

[Violet77]

Possible. But if they are still together my guess is the sister. I'm wondering if participating in the inquest coupled with now being a preteen instead of a young child has prompted the sister to re-evaluate her own memories, to question what she had always believed.

Perhaps things she was told as a young child no longer make complete sense to her. If she was told to lie about a seemingly minor detail/s at the time, she may now wonder why.

Perhaps this had her questioning her FPs directly and when she wouldn't quit with the questions there was some sort of altercation?

She was determined to find William, even vowing to become a detective when she was grown to take over the search for her brother… maybe she already started digging close to home for information

 

[Ozgal]

Apparently AFP special unit is joining the case today. I am not sure what they will do that is different to what is already being done? anyone a lot more wiser about it can you please explain to me in simple terms what this means

AFP to join search for William Tyrrell

They are saying for their forensic expertise, but maybe they are involved for the other expertise the AFP are good at doing and finding on the dark Web. Like you say NSW Police would have pretty advanced equipment/technology. I'm sure more will come out in the media over the next couple of day's/wks, but I do believe a lot will be suppressed due to the protection of children. LE are drip feeding to the media, as quite a few people knew about LT's removal and the FGM car being seized last week.

There is a lot more to come out and this is all my own opinion

 

[marellajubes]

Why the difference in these 2 photos?

They are supposedly the same photo taken the morning of his disappearance.

One seems to be the raw photo the other a cleaned up photo.

I understand some people regularly enhance their photos but this couldn't have been done by the FPs as he was missing soon after this photo was taken.

Did the police or media enhance it for the purposes of releasing it to the public?

I would say the opposite happened, the clearer image is the real, original image and the grainier one is from a report for the coroner so could be printed/scanned/reduced and degraded as the image quality was not the purpose of the particular report page but the metadata. The photos was one of many photos that morning on the porch, so that is likely one of multiple photos on the one page of the report all reduced to size to fit, like a grid. Then media or whoever has taken a photocopy or photo of the report. Hence the degradation.

Its much easier to take quality from a photo, then to bring it in.

 

[insanity]

Maybe he ADHD or some other? FM couldn't cope?

I've wondered that. At the very least being a foster child there would have to be trauma and attachment issues. So not necessarily an easy child to parent. (I have 2 bio boys who are asd & adhd so speaking with some knowledge).

 

[PingTheRouter]

It could depend on what they landed on.
It wouldn't take much of a fall to kill someone if the person landed on concrete or on rocks in a garden.

you can die from falling while standing, its happened before

so yeah from a 2 story balcony.. easy i agree Tootsie

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Yes and it has happened a lot.

you can die from falling while standing, its happened before

 

[Awakening]

Exactly, it's so baffling. I can't imagine a person covering up an accident, maintaining that story for 7 years, apparently actively encouraging the police to pursue the case and supposedly seeking out MSM and participating in podcasts to keep the case alive.

If that was true the person would surely have some sort of disorder where they felt supremely confident they wouldn't be suspected and perhaps even enjoyed the attention?

Because if a person covered up an accident I'd expect them to become withdrawn in the hope it would all blow over.

Equally baffling to me, is the police doing all this in the manner that they are. Mainly the inviting of the media to see what they are doing, the confidence they have and that they are NOT saying that this part of a normal investigation, we are revisiting the scene with new tech to categorically rule it out, this is routine, the FPs are not suspects, the FPs have always been cooperative. Similar to what happened in the CS case. And if the police have this wrong? Boy oh boy.

The 2 possible scenarios here: FP's covering up an accident or FPs innocent and LEs latest moves are all wrong - well both scenarios are just extraordinary and baffling to me.

 

[Wombat87]

I imagine it would depend on how they fell and what they fell onto. And it is my understanding (I am not a medical professional so happy to be corrected), you can die instantly from a broken neck..

But unlikely and why would you hide it

 

[Nessie]

I’m not totally convinced by the accident/balcony fall theory and tend to agree with posters saying that could be a red herring thrown out by LE to try and solicit a confession.

I appreciate it’s the kind thing to do to give the FP the benefit of the doubt if they were somehow involved…. But I just think all possibilities are open here… to me the accidental death theory doesn’t quite fit with the new allegations involving them (that I don’t think we can go into anymore due to the court non-pub).

I also wonder whether people would be reacting the same way if the FP presented differently…ie weren’t from such a wealthy/privileged background.
Just my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 161976]

It could depend on what they landed on.
It wouldn't take much of a fall to kill someone if the person landed on concrete or on rocks in a garden.

Or just the ground if it was dry and hard. If it was head first, it may not take much of a distance for a person to die from a fall.

As a child I was walking on and fell off a garden wall, into the garden,onto the grass. The wall was only about 3ft/1 metre but the ground was hard and dry. My dad had to bring me to hospital I had concussion. It wasn't even a dramatic fall, just a small one. Head injuries can vary widely and sometimes be fatal, imo.

 

[EllaN1]

Just a question and please correct me if I am wrong and I really don't want to offend anyone. I am in Brisbane , but did spend some time in Syd and Mel many years ago. I felt at the time that people especially in the more upmarket suburbs are a lot more competitive, overseas holidays, the car you drive etc etc. was very important and I guess more shallow. I am just trying to get a general picture and understand why someone would go to such great lengths to cover up lies.

 

[Ozgal]

Do you think a child would die from falling over the railing? I would think that some broken bones would be inevitable, and maybe a concussion, broken back or neck, but death? How likely is that?

My son fell 5m out of a tree and the doctor's were amazed he survived, he appeared ok and uninjured after the fall and got up and started running around with his friends....we stopped him, made him sit down and called for an ambulance to come check him out. While waiting for the ambulance, he started to have pains in the stomach, became pale and sweaty. We didn't live far from the ambulance station/hospital thankfully, but when the ambulance arrived his blood pressure was really low and they suspected internal injuries. When we arrived at the hospital a team of surgeons were waiting for us at the ambulance door with a portable ultrasound and it turned out he had ruptured his spleen. It was one of the worst times of my life and he was only 7yrs old at the time, 6wks in ICU, 3mths off of school and now a healthy 20yr old boy

 

[Gotta have Faith]

Police seize car belonging to William Tyrrell's foster grandmother for forensic examination | Daily Mail Online

Police has just seized the car belonging to the Foster Grandmother to test it. Won Would there be anything to find?der what they are trying to find after 7 years?

 

[marellajubes]

Just a question and please correct me if I am wrong and I really don't want to offend anyone. I am in Brisbane , but did spend some time in Syd and Mel many years ago. I felt at the time that people especially in the more upmarket suburbs are a lot more competitive, overseas holidays, the car you drive etc etc. was very important. I am just trying to get a general picture and understand why someone would go to such great lengths to cover up lies.

A pending adoption case is more likely than keeping up appearances to cover up an accident. If not an accident then more likely to cover it up. Also complete psychotic break after witnessing your child die could also be possible. Who knows, it seems really sad if this was just a tragic accident, because all this grief the extended family went through, the daughter, the bio family, the community. If it was an accident, it most likely would not have resulted in anything other than deemed a tragic accident.

 

[kazbar]

I am so saddened by this colossal waste of time by the police in doggedly pursuing the wrong lines of investigation, and delaying justice for poor young William.
The police force need to employ more intuitive people. For the first time ever 2 days ago, I saw a photo of the balcony at the back of that house, and immediately thought :"that's a huge drop down to the ground!". Surely someone among the police attending would have reacted the same way, knowing that William is only 3, and he was dressed in a spider man suit. Why didn't they pursue that line of enquiry from the start?

 

[Gotta have Faith]

what about this one :

Commissioner Fuller said the current team of investigators, led by Detective Chief Inspector David Laidlaw, inherited a "bit of a mess" but have "really cleaned up the investigation".

He said time had been wasted in the past and some people had needlessly come under suspicion.

Police close in on new person of interest in William Tyrrell disappearance as fresh searches continue

I believe this has all blown up due to the success of the CS case, so they took another look and here we are

 

[PolyDot]

Do you think a child would die from falling over the railing? I would think that some broken bones would be inevitable, and maybe a concussion, broken back or neck, but death? How likely is that?

I think it is possible either way … I don’t want to think about the possibility of injuries & now dead ? ,
However maybe he didn’t fall from balcony - maybe police trying to give those responsible an easy confession ‘ it was accidental’

 

[Awakening]

Touching on the somewhat surprising transparency of the current status of the investigation, I can't help but wonder if this is a subtle but very deliberate 'we got this very wrong and are making every attempt to clear those previously, but wrongly suspected of involvement in William's disappearance'. Formally clearing previous suspects at this stage of an investigation would be improper, but at the same time, going to great lengths to ensure that basically everyone knows who they are closing in on, is a tactic you rarely, if ever see. There may well be an element of psychologically squeezing the suspected party involved as well but to me it seems a thinly veiled call out that 'the neighbour across the street and the convicted sex offender down the road had nothing to do with this'.

Regardless, I can only hope for as speedy a resolution as possible, for both William and family and swift justice to anyone who may be criminally involved in his disappearance.

IMO, this is a very good point that you raise.

If anyone: friend, family, neighbour, workmate, employee, babysitter, house cleaner, gardener, casual acquaintance of the FPs, had thoughts that some of the behaviour of the FPs was odd, they may well have dismissed it as nothing because a) they thought the FPs were unlikely to be responsible and/or b) the police clearly had other suspects in mind.

By police doing what they are doing now they are clearly telling people that there are other POIs and this may prompt those that have previously held back information to come forward. No matter how minor or seemingly irrelevant, that information could be absolutely crucial IMO.