Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #58

[Ozgal]

First post on WS in 4 or 5 years, it's been quite the crazy time in the past few months in regards to missing children. The young fella from Putty, little Cleo and of course the recent developments surrounding William's disappearance.

I'd echo the sentiments of Cleaver Greene in that clearly something fresh and compelling has been brought to the attention of police. This is an unusually narrow scope of investigation and given the high profile nature of this case and the well publicised and as the Commissioner has publicly stated, ill focused investigation, police are obviously VERY confident that they have it right this time.

I don't necessarily agree that this new information cannot have come from William's sister however. You'll have to forgive me as I'm not up to speed on the pseudonyms used during the inquest but the sister is now of an age (if I understand correctly, I've not paid close enough attention to the particulars of this case) where any information she provides is generally going to be viewed as more credible than any statement(s) given when she was much younger.

Interviewing children, particularly in cases where they may have been a party to particularly traumatic events, is an extremely delicate exercise. It's very difficult, if not impossible in some cases to elicit pertinent information without questioning methods that are likely to withstand the various legal challenges that they would inevitably face when the matter is brought to court. Interviewing a 10-13 year old is infinitely easier than interviewing a 5 or 6 year old.

Total speculation on my part as a lay observer in this case but it's entirely possible that William's sister is (or was at the time that the new information came to light) is now capable of a level of communication and recall that she can effectively give an unprompted and credible version of events without being asked leading questions which are likely to be legally problematic.

Of course there are no doubt countless other possible sources but to exclude William's sister as the source would be premature in my opinion.

I find it interesting that numerous people are advancing the accidental death and panicked disposal of the body theory. I understand how this conclusion could be reached but having been involved in numerous highly publicised matters in a precessional capacity, I'm acutely aware that police are experts in saying a lot, without saying much at all. Not a criticism at all, in fact it would be negligent of them to offer anything more than this.

Reading between the lines with regards to the statements police have made in recent days (read: total speculation on my part), I'd be surprised if this was not still a homicide investigation. There are certainly crimes attached the conduct that would be required to conceal a fatal, but accidental incident, but the language being used and the pretty much unprecedented and transparent access media outlets are being granted in relation to the search, it leads me to believe this is far more serious than potential charges of interfering with a corpse, obstruct police, perjury and so on (insert equivalent NSW offences here, my purview is strictly QLD biased). These are all serious offences, make no mistake, but to my mind and in my experience, they do not match up to the information being provided by police. I suspect that they believe something more sinister may have occurred.

I may well be proven to be totally off base with the above but it's where my mind sits at the moment. I suspect we will know a great deal more in the coming week or two. Feel free to revisit this thread to ridicule my version of events!

Touching on the somewhat surprising transparency of the current status of the investigation, I can't help but wonder if this is a subtle but very deliberate 'we got this very wrong and are making every attempt to clear those previously, but wrongly suspected of involvement in William's disappearance'. Formally clearing previous suspects at this stage of an investigation would be improper, but at the same time, going to great lengths to ensure that basically everyone knows who they are closing in on, is a tactic you rarely, if ever see. There may well be an element of psychologically squeezing the suspected party involved as well but to me it seems a thinly veiled call out that 'the neighbour across the street and the convicted sex offender down the road had nothing to do with this'.

<modsnip>

Regardless, I can only hope for as speedy a resolution as possible, for both William and family and swift justice to anyone who may be criminally involved in his disappearance.

Great informative post...thx

 

[Ms Kite]

Hello old friends... I'm sorry to have not posted in a while.

I'm lost for words with these latest developments.

Just waiting now with baited breath to see where this lands.

 

[organised_chaos]

Not sure if anyone has uploaded specifically who the person of interest is? I didn't see anything but forgive me for double posting. Will delete if needed. FM has been named as person of interest

William Tyrrell’s foster mother emerges as person of interest

 

[Chestnutsunfish]

The latest developments have truly shocked me.

I personally believe the balcony theory is like another suggested an attempt at throwing an accident theory out there in order to facilitate a confession from those involved.

It may be naive of me but I can’t fathom covering up an accident if it was an accident. It just doesn’t make sense.

 

[Waverider]

Just a question and please correct me if I am wrong and I really don't want to offend anyone. I am in Brisbane , but did spend some time in Syd and Mel many years ago. I felt at the time that people especially in the more upmarket suburbs are a lot more competitive, overseas holidays, the car you drive etc etc. was very important and I guess more shallow. I am just trying to get a general picture and understand why someone would go to such great lengths to cover up lies.

If someone were to go to these lengths, we’re not talking about the garden variety shallow eastern suburbs Sydneysider. This would be someone who grew up wishing they had money and never felt good enough. When they finally “made it”, they would do anything to keep the image of their perfect life. They can’t take responsibility for anything that goes wrong - it is always someone else’s fault. They might even begin to believe whatever story they concocted because the pain of knowing they’re a “failure” is unbearable.

 

[organised_chaos]

If someone were to go to these lengths, we’re not talking about the garden variety shallow eastern suburbs Sydneysider. This would be someone who grew up wishing they had money and never felt good enough. When they finally “made it”, they would do anything to keep the image of their perfect life. They can’t take responsibility for anything that goes wrong - it is always someone else’s fault. They might even begin to believe whatever story they concocted because the pain of knowing they’re a “failure” is unbearable.

The way you just described that made me think of the show 'Big Little Lies'. Apparently that was based on Sydney northern beaches mothers....

Big Little Lies

 

[Detective Willy]

Not sure if anyone has uploaded specifically who the person of interest is? I didn't see anything but forgive me for double posting. Will delete if needed. FM has been named as person of interest

William Tyrrell’s foster mother emerges as person of interest

A few days ago it was both of the FP being looked at and now it is just the FM. Hence IMO FF has co-operated with Police or he would still be a POI. Theoretically if something happened when FF was away on the morning he would still be guilty of being an accessory after the fact, hiding this for 7 years. Unless they are saying FM did this and FF was totally unaware. This is where I start getting the headache, I need a panadol.

 

[marellajubes]

They are saying for their forensic expertise, but maybe they are involved for the other expertise the AFP are good at doing and finding on the dark Web. Like you say NSW Police would have pretty advanced equipment/technology. I'm sure more will come out in the media over the next couple of day's/wks, but I do believe a lot will be suppressed due to the protection of children. LE are drip feeding to the media, as quite a few people knew about LT's removal and the FGM car being seized last week.

There is a lot more to come out and this is all my own opinion

Im led to believe this is all a big show for one person to put the pressure on. The access the media has is insane, never really seen before. Just them taking the car, the camera angles etc. The knowledge of where the car was. Thats a police invitation. The close ups of them sifting through the garden beds. They are supposedly looking for remains, yet they let a camera that close to the sifter that is sifting for remains? What if they found a tooth or bone? It not something that LE would be willing to do so publicly degrading WT remains like that. The luminol tests last night, again when have you seen that done so publicly, on dirt that will no doubt glow just on the bases of it being in nature, fertilisers, blood and bone etc. I thinks its all a big show. So any media releases of bringing in the big guns, the AFP, whilst probably correct not unusual and just to add pressure to a suspect that may be ready to cave.

This happened with the DM case, they knew who did it, they just needed that confession to where the body was, they didn't so much care about the details of the confession as they knew it would be a lie. But they needed the location cause they can figure the rest out later/ provide evidence of what they already know. My belief is they have a good idea who it is (which is obvious). They are been unusually clear that they, the police have screwed up the case, which is not something LE just offer up to the media without an investigation into their conduct or public backlash. This to me shows they are showing the suspect that things have changed the new detectives are no longer fooled and will not be distracted anymore. They are showing them a plausible manslaughter accident confession. They are literally showing the suspect the steps that LE would believe, this may all be in preparation for testing that car, and then going to the suspect with the results and their other evidence. This seems to be just the prelude to questioning a suspect and making them think they have more than they actually have. Cause if they had more, there would be an arrest. If the daughter explained what happened, there would already be an arrest. At the end of the day they want the remains, and will do anything they legally can to get them, including an all access media blitz. They can figure out cause of death, reliability of the confession later.

 

[deugirtni]

I wonder what happened 18 months ago that attracted their interest ?

I think a lot was going on ~around~ 18 months ago... imo

i) Third tranche of Coroner's Inquiry ended abruptly due to Covid-19 (March 17, 2020): "Deputy state coroner Harriet Grahame told the court on Wednesday that the matter would be adjourned in an effort to help slow the spread of COVID-19, with a directions hearing to be held at some point in the future.
However, she emphasised the police investigation is still ongoing.
“Nothing in relation to this matter I consider to be a cold case,” Ms Grahame said.
“It’s an ongoing investigation, it’s continuing, I’m happy to indicate that.”
New leads
Counsel assisting Gerard Craddock SC said that the inquest had already uncovered new leads.
“As a consequence of the evidence called here, there has been a witness who we had no idea about who has come forward and is speaking to police,” Mr Craddock said. Inquest into missing toddler William Tyrrell halted abruptly

ii) Spedding announced his lawsuit against NSW (around mid March 2020?) "Bill Spedding is suing the state of NSW for malicious prosecution after he became a high-profile person of interest in the disappearance of William Tyrrell in 2014." Bill Spedding sues NSW over Tyrrell case - McIvor Times

iii) Jubelin's trial wound up (April 2020) "Lia Harris@LiaJHarris·Apr 5: Magistrate Hudson told the court Jubelin “made a decision Mr Savage was his man and pursued him as a person of interest at all costs”.
Lia Harris@LiaJHarris·Apr 5: Jubelin has been found GUILTY of all charges.
Lia Harris@LiaJHarris·Apr 5: Magistrate Hudson told the court the prosecution had proven its case that Jubelin illegally recorded four conversations with Savage, saying “the court cannot accept that the recording of the conversations was reasonably necessary to protect his lawful rights”. (from Lia Harris Twitter account)

iv) A new search was ordered by the coroner (June 2020) "Police in NSW launched a fresh search on Monday as part of the ongoing investigation into the disappearance of missing boy William Tyrrell." Fresh search launched by police in case of missing boy William Tyrrell

v) Coroner released a bunch of docs (around July 2020) "A police officer investigating the William Tyrrell case has cast doubt over evidence given by several key witnesses, including the boy's foster mother and a neighbour who claimed to have seen him in the back of a speeding car moments after his baffling disappearance.
On Tuesday, Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame released 48 documents in relation to William's disappearance, including transcripts of police interviews with persons of interest, transcripts of telephone calls, statements from police officers and photos of a Spider-Man suit that police planted in the bush as part of a surveillance operation." William Tyrrell case: NSW Police doubted key witness evidence, documents reveal

Anything else we know of?

 

[leopink74]

I am curious to know why the AFP are going to be flying drones over the FGM’s house - what are they hoping to achieve ?

 

[marellajubes]

A few days ago it was both of the FP being looked at and now it is just the FM. Hence IMO FF has co-operated with Police or he would still be a POI. Theoretically if something happened when FF was away on the morning he would still be guilty of being an accessory after the fact, hiding this for 7 years. Unless they are saying FM did this and FF was totally unaware. This is where I start getting the headache, I need a panadol.

Or they do think it was the FF, but publicly pinning it on the FM to pressure her into talking. If I was covering up a homicide/manslaughter for someone (I wouldn't), I would definitely start talking if the finger was pointed at me.

 

[marellajubes]

I am curious to know why the AFP are going to be flying drones over the FGM’s house - what are they hoping to achieve ?

Maybe some sort of ground penetrating radar, or just something to put on the news to freak out a suspect even more than they already are.

 

[Gotta have Faith]

The only logical conclusion that I can come to is that the FF has dobbed in FM after they separated and FGM passed. FF no longer feels the need to protect other persons?

<modsnip: No MSM to support such speculation> Does anyone think perhaps the FGM may have had something to do with William's disappearance? Perhaps and just my IMO, while FM was making a cuppa, William may have been too noisy and FGM lashed out and it's been covered up by FPs? Protect the FGM ? Someone in that house knows something. Either FF, FM FGM or all 3 of them. Just IMO.

 

[organised_chaos]

Now it is all over the news about the FM. Kelly Fedor reporting

https://twitter.com/i/status/1460771307365281797

 

[Trmtrm2]

Its probably already been discussed but what were the shoes he was wearing? He is bare foot in the last photos, if they were taken 7.37 or 9.39? Was he now wearing shoes when missing? As FM has said quite a few things, tried getting him to climb a tree, running around on grass under house? Ridding a bike into the garden, out the front waiting for FF you would think he would of needed quite a good pair of shoes for thies activities, I know they hav always been looking for a spider man outfit but what about the shoes? I'm assuming its a shoes off house so maby no one wearing shoes on balcony, if infact he was last seen on the 5m balcony would that mean he had shoes off, was everyone inside with shoes off and would of had to then all put shoes on to search, plus the story with the corner the sister riding bike "who's that in the car mummy", now everyone was inside making cuppa, im just thinking that they were all out with shoes on then all came in and took shoes off possible thats why WT is on the tall balcony as everyone has shoes off, (if its beening looked into to see if WT has behaviour problems as of the bruising that the BM complained about so FM is looking into behaviour problems, really I can't see him being left outside with shoes on running around while FM FGM and sister take shoes off all going inside for that cuppa especially with FF about to pull onto the driveway) (to me it looking like everyone finished up taking shoes off to hav morning tea cuppa inside an WT allowed to be on 5m balcony maby so he doesn't mess up house maby playing and waiting for everyone to join him with drink and food) as mention in previous posts about a book or podcast that the FGM is close to the superintendent, dose anyone hav any more info on that matter? I'm thinking no where in the house or any items they brought up to Kendall were ever forensically checked its looking like the FM was in control of the narrative basically he isn't on the property no one suspicious, then when he wasn't found near by oh yes there was suspicious people in cars still leading the narrative the search isn't on them but now on local people, i think anyone else in Australia who's 3yr old disappeared that day would not be allowed to drive that night to collect sister from the airport alone, you would think police would be hanging around them to some extent, I just can't see if I called police and had grazed hands and knees and said I whent in for a cuppa now 3yr old is missing that I would be free to do as I please go on long drives to airport even if it was a child that had been in my care since 9 months old to mentally be fine for a long drive anyone else would be to upset to be driving long distances with the almost a million dollar reno they are about to do you think the family could arrange for a payed taxi or a family friend to collect the sister, you think all the cars would be searched what if he was hiding in the boot, someone mentioned in a previous post it was possible for FM to take WT to that road she drove up when searching then collect him when going to the airport then take him to a different location, the only thing that doesn't make sense is the time difference in the photos how the FF never said that they were taken when he was home, its obvious that the difference in the FM stories that the coroner is not buying the time different photos and its obvious that if the FM wasn't looked into she now needs to be so the coroner can complete the inquest, while most people would be worried about WT it appears thies people are worried about their identitys i don't remember that being an issue with the TP case were a foster child in qld was missing then turned out to be murdered by the foster parent, I feel the identity should of been public what if someone saw the FM with WT or saw her and her car near the bushland but it was never reported because her identity was private, they are foster parents meaning they are ment to have children in care until bio perents ready to take back but thies foster parents are acting like its an adoption (forever home) trying to adopt and having identity hidden even from the biological parents so many red flags to the agenda and personality for the foster parents and i wonder how many other foster carers get to take the foster children overseas you would think the foster children would be placed in alternative care while the foster carers travel the world, it just feels like the foster parents had extra privileges, WT is no longer in their care they are not his perents anymore i don't like the fact that they are incontroll of the WT campaign, from what I hav read the campaign has spent 42 thousand less than what was donated so I wonder where that money is apparently they are no longer taking donations, this is my first post on this thread so im sorry if I got anything wrong

 

[Marg944]

Maybe some sort of ground penetrating radar, or just something to put on the news to freak out a suspect even more than they already are.

HOW DRONES CAN HELP FIND HUMAN REMAINS
Here’s how the sensors investigators attach to drones actually help them find human remains:

• Near infrared (NIR) imaging. As a body decomposes, it introduces so many nutrients into the soil that the area is called a Cadaver Decomposition Island (CDI). Research indicates that CDIs show up on the NIR spectrum, and that drones equipped with NIR sensors could help find human remains by searching for CDIs.
• Infrared imaging. The presence of a dead body can significantly alter the composition of chemicals in the surrounding area. Nitrogen is one of the chemicals bodies release as they decompose, and the presence of extra nitrogen can change the chemical signature of plants growing over a grave, so much so that these plants reflect infrared light differently from other plants, allowing a drone equipped with an infrared sensor to identify the location of a human body.
• Hyperspectral/multispectral imaging. Spectral data collected by drone can be matched with an existing library of spectral data, which can help find both missing people and human remains. Examples of spectral data that has been catalogued include clothing samples from wet and dry conditions, skin tone data, and blood (both fresh and aged).

Drones for CSI—How Drones Can Help Find Human Remains

 

[AC's Grandma]

So could they be using the AFP capabilities on the FGM's car to see where it went and when on the day WT went missing? If so, that could tell them what they need as final proof of what they believe they already have to make a solid case.
I have another thought. Could it be that they've found what may be WT's body and they have obtained specimens of dirt, etc on the body and they want to determine where his body was and for how long?
I can't figure out how you would think a body or body parts are in the garden at the FGM's house. The police had to have searched and kept watch over things for a long time after it was reported WT went missing. Who had the time and knowledge to move his body somewhere to bury it on the property during an investigation that lasted years without getting caught?
Was GJ excluding the foster parents because of their status and therefore never considered them being POI because no one of their stature would do such a thing?
I have so many questions and all of what I've posted are just my thoughts and questions running through my mind.

 

[marellajubes]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/716054155147969/user/849050444 Does anyone think perhaps the FGM may have had something to do with William's disappearance? Perhaps and just my IMO, while FM was making a cuppa, William may have been too noisy and FGM lashed out and it's been covered up by FPs? Protect the FGM ? Someone in that house knows something. Either FF, FM FGM or all 3 of them. Just IMO.

I think if there was a confession from any party, either sister or FF, there would be an arrest already. I think it may be more one of them has come forward and said "hey she lied about this or that," or "this doesnt add up". So not a full I witnessed the whole thing, but more "she wasnt doing that when she says she was". etc

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Maybe to see disturbances in the ground that can only be seen clearly from above.

Like even barely noticed lush ground cover where the rest of the ground is bare and a slightly different colour
and that may not really show well when you're walking around.

I am curious to know why the AFP are going to be flying drones over the FGM’s house - what are they hoping to achieve ?

 

[Gotta have Faith]

Im led to believe this is all a big show for one person to put the pressure on. The access the media has is insane, never really seen before. Just them taking the car this morning, the camera angles etc. The knowledge of where the car was. Thats a police invitation. The close ups of them sifting through the garden beds. They are supposedly looking for remains, yet they let a camera that close to the sifter that is sifting for remains? What if they found a tooth or bone? It not something that LE would be willing to do so publicly degrading WT remains like that. The luminol tests last night, again when have you seen that done so publicly, on dirt that will no doubt glow just on the bases of it being in nature, fertilisers, blood and bone etc. I thinks its all a big show. So any media releases of bringing in the big guns, the AFP, whilst probably correct not unusual and just to add pressure to a suspect that may be ready to cave.

This happened with the DM case, they knew who did it, they just needed that confession to where the body was, they didn't so much care about the details of the confession as they knew it would be a lie. But they needed the location cause they can figure the rest out later/ provide evidence of what they already know. My belief is they have a good idea who it is (which is obvious). They are been unusually clear that they, the police have screwed up the case, which is not something LE just offer up to the media without an investigation into their conduct or public backlash. This to me shows they are showing the suspect that things have changed the new detectives are no longer fooled and will not be distracted anymore. They are showing them a plausible manslaughter accident confession. They are literally showing the suspect the steps that LE would believe, this may all be in preparation for testing that car, and then going to the suspect with the results and their other evidence. This seems to be just the prelude to questioning a suspect and making them think they have more than they actually have. Cause if they had more, there would be an arrest. If the daughter explained what happened, there would already be an arrest. At the end of the day they want the remains, and will do anything they legally can to get them, including an all access media blitz. They can figure out cause of death, reliability of the confession later.

They are letting media to the house site but I have not seen photos of the other 3 sites in the bush away from the house theya re searching.