Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #60

[PrimeSuspect]

It's actually quite different because these people have been charged with assaulting a minor in their care and have been called POI's or in some news reports, suspects.
This was never true of the CS case. IMO.

One more thing, CS's alleged kidnapper, the accused, he's not been found guilty and neither have the FPs! If anyone has participated in other threads, knows this well.

 

[JBowie]

GJ was rock star status in this forum at one stage, going hard at everyone, no apologies. He has met many murderers, and is a reliable source when he says, “I didn’t think the FP were involved”. He says he keeps an open mind now, But Now, we are considering one or both FP are killers or have disposed of a body, AND fooled GJ. It just strikes me as less likely than likely.

Jubelin has a great record and it's tragic that he blew himself up by breaking the law out of frustration.

In such cases there are often long periods when, to the public and others, nothing seems to be happening, but police on the case often have a very strong suspect under surveillance and are waiting for that slip-up by the suspect that gives them the 'go' to make an arrest and lay charges.

From what we learned, GJ seems to have gone through the phone directory of suspects and was becoming desperate. One might say barking up a wrong tree.

Frankly, I believe that he should have been thanked and relieved of command of that task force some time ago and given another big case, in order to get some fresh eyes on the Tyrrell case.

Laidlaw's approach is to put intense pressure on suspects until either they break or he's satisfied that they are not guilty. No pussyfooting around. I think he should have been on the case from the beginning.

I feel that a lot of clues and momentum were lost in the early days of this case when it was run by the Inspector (name?) who retired soon after it began.

 

[nunaloon]

I have also seen confusing news coverage it infuriates me

 

[marellajubes]

GJ was rock star status in this forum at one stage, going hard at everyone, no apologies. He has met many murderers, and is a reliable source when he says, “I didn’t think the FP were involved”. He says he keeps an open mind now, But Now, we are considering one or both FP are killers or have disposed of a body, AND fooled GJ. It just strikes me as less likely than likely.

Remember he is no longer a police officer based on him not having an open mind and targeting an individual with no evidence.

Rock star status was helped because of forum rules. Whilst I agree with the rules, without being able to sleuth the parents, we were only able to sleuth and discuss the POI he provided publicly, so with only researching those people and with herd mentality, we were always going to be right by his side.

 

[Tigerlily75]

Abuse a huge problem is agreed. Kill or dispose of a body, that’s an escalation from abuse. I am just not buying in at this stage.

I’m not “buying in” either, but I’m open to the possibility. The window of time for an abduction, with family members sitting outside, in that quiet no through cul de sac, with no one hearing or seeing a thing, is equally unlikely.

But something happened, didn’t it.

 

[PinkPower]

IMO, It shouldn't be about rockstar personalities. It should be about the missing child.

 

[BigT]

Remember he is no longer a police officer based on him not having an open mind and targeting an individual with no evidence.

Rock star status was helped because of forum rules. Whilst I agree with the rules, without being able to sleuth the parents, we were only able to sleuth and discuss the POI he provided publicly, so with only researching those people and with herd mentality, we were always going to be right by his side.

The individual he targeted may not be out of the woods yet ! Just saying….

 

[marellajubes]

I’m not “buying in” either, but I’m open to the possibility. The window of time for an abduction, with family members sitting outside, in that quiet no through cul de sac, with no one hearing or seeing a thing, is equally unlikely.

But something happened, didn’t it.

CS was abducted right next to her parents. Its crazy the possibilities and the sheer and utter luck(lack of a better word) for it to sway in the favour of the perpetrator in cases like this.

 

[marellajubes]

The individual he targeted may not be out of the woods yet ! Just saying….

Sadly, a trial would be quite hard if turned out to be him when evidence was obtained illegally.

Did they find any historical allegations against him? It would be very odd for a 75 year old to just abduct a child without any escalation/history

 

[JBowie]

The individual he targeted may not be out of the woods yet ! Just saying….

True, and woe betide him if Laidlaw starts looking his way.

 

[Tigerlily75]

CS was abducted right next to her parents. Its crazy the possibilities and the sheer and utter luck(lack of a better word) for it to sway in the favour of the perpetrator in cases like this.

I know, it was so bold to open that tent. I would guess he sat for awhile, listening. And if interrupted he could have just said “oops sorry, wrong tent”.

 

[peanutJelly]

These were not my questions, and I wasn't seeking answers to them. They were questions other people in the thread asked. I was pointing out these questions assumed the person in question would be behaving logically and rationally after committing a crime. That is usually only the case in premeditated scenarios, not accidental ones. So an accidental cover up should assume illogical answers to these questions, based on emotional response in a high stress situation. Which is why I believe police are reinvestigating the initial statements again now. Just my opinion though, I am not a member of LE.




A large portion of police training, especially for detectives is behavioural studies. That training is part of what enables them to find irrefutable proof or get a confession. Understanding the way people behave in high stress situations is part of behavioural studies.



But there is questioning of police's motives for conducting the search/investigating the photographs?
"Why would the FF move the body back to their property?"
"Why would the FF bury the body on a property they were selling?"
"Why would FF change the metadata"
"Why the focus on the shoes?"
All of these are questions of motive for why police are searching the area now.
I was simply suggesting police probably aren't asking "Why would they" but instead asking "Is it possible they..." and then eliminating the improbabilities.

I think also they are less interested in why than could they. Any why theories would be for other specialists should there be a conviction. People behave the way they do for all

Also, if he was in fact wearing shoes, was she able to describe them? Did other family members notice them missing also?

Is it possible that the shoes are still in FM possession rather than found away from her somewhere? That would be suspicious if she said he was wearing them but photo suggests he wasn’t. Would be an incentive to keep them hidden all these years rather than disposing of them somewhere and risk them being found

 

[PrimeSuspect]

As a speed reader I’m not sure what you’re referencing with the last comment, but as far as abductions can go, of course they can happen. But are you suggesting that because Cleo was abducted, William was too? No one here knows what happened to William.

One should follow the evidence, not squeeze and bend evidence to fit a preconceived notion. Even if you’ve held onto a theory for years and years, if new evidence comes to light you should follow it and see where it takes you.

FTR, I followed the evidence in Cleo’s case and my theory (before she was found) was opportunistic abduction.

Who is?
Why can't someone suggest an abduction is possible?
I followed CS's case too, in this forum, it was accepting the life of young families who are beach campers that was hard for many to accept, if you're a beach camper, easy peasy! Where was the evidence to follow?

 

[JoeDetective]

As a speed reader I’m not sure what you’re referencing with the last comment, but as far as abductions can go, of course they can happen. But are you suggesting that because CS was abducted, William was too? No one here knows what happened to William.

One should follow the evidence, not squeeze and bend evidence to fit a preconceived notion. Even if you’ve held onto a theory for years and years, if new evidence comes to light you should follow it and see where it takes you.

FTR, I followed the evidence in CS’s case and my theory (before she was found) was opportunistic abduction.

None of the evidence in the CS case supported her parents' involvement, it was sad to watch the parents get attacked in that case, that is not to rule it out but it seemed quite clear all the evidence was pointing towards an abduction and the statements and behaviour were all consistent with other similar cases I have studied. Assuming the abductor had his/her cell phone turned on at the time I was quite confident the case would be solved knowing how remote and unpopulated that area was combined with the likely abduction time being the middle of the night. Abductors don't plan on getting caught so it was likely the cell phone was switched on and so it proved to be.

There is no evidence pointing towards abduction in this case, the only evidence I can see points at one individual. Maybe there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for all the inconsistencies in her statements and the absence of evidence of abduction does not mean he was not abducted just that one should follow the evidence.

 

[BigT]

Sadly, a trial would be quite hard if turned out to be him when evidence was obtained illegally.

Did they find any historical allegations against him? It would be very odd for a 75 year old to just abduct a child without any escalation/history

I was considering the hit by car driven by wife, panicked and hid the evidence theory. That could happen in the space of a cuppa. GJ accused him of lying in interview, not helpful, but doesn’t mean anything either. New evidence, say something found this week while going hard at another “single” POI will be admissible.

here he is accused of lying. No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

 

[JBowie]

I was considering the hit by car driven by wife, panicked and hid the evidence theory. That could happen in the space of a cuppa.

I guess, but you'd have to be the type of person who is capable of thinking quickly on their feet while remaining calm, cool and collected in the face of an event that would have others freeze or fall apart from shock and grief.

And, of course, you would have to be the type who instinctively and immediately thinks of how to cover your own arse in any adverse situation.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Seized Car Already Examined After William Tyrrell’s Disappearance 19/11/21

WT FGM's car which has been seized by police for forenic testing had already been examined days after the toddler went missing 7 years ago the Daily Telegraph can reveal. The new examination of the Mazda will include testing for DNA and police say they expect to keep the car for several weeks at a secure facility.

Seized Car Already Examined After William Tyrrell’s Disappearance 19/11/21

 

[marellajubes]

I was considering the hit by car driven by wife, panicked and hid the evidence theory. That could happen in the space of a cuppa. GJ accused him of lying in interview, not helpful, but doesn’t mean anything either. New evidence, say something found this week while going hard at another “single” POI will be admissible.

Fair theory, the only thing with these accident theories, regardless of neighbour or FF, its the initial screams and shrieks of an adult who has hit a child or seen them fall, or happened upon them. Your first instinct is not lets cover this up. Its a scream or shriek. No one heard one. The FF would have heard one from the neighbour. The Neighbour would have heard one from the foster family. He heard them playing, the other neighbour was on the porch having a cigarette its a missing piece of the puzzle. But then again you would think someone would see the abduction. Or see whoever hide the body.

 

[PinkPower]

Seized Car Already Examined After William Tyrrell’s Disappearance 19/11/21

WT FGM's car which has been seized by police for forenic testing had already been examined days after the toddler went missing 7 years ago the Daily Telegraph can reveal. The new examination of the Mazda will include testing for DNA and police say they expect to keep the car for several weeks at a secure facility.

Seized Car Already Examined After William Tyrrell’s Disappearance 19/11/21

Sounds like perhaps it wasn't originally swabbed for DNA which would point to again, an insufficient original investigation.

 

[Lunarmoth]

While there are some similarities between them that are obvious, I am really hesitant to compare the cases of WT with CS until there is a resolution to both.

It's just my personal feelings obviously. But, in the instance of CS the individual who was arrested is an indigenous man with a troubled upbringing and some clear mental health problems. (I'm no psych, but judging from his social media posts, these problems seem to be centered around the loss of his childhood.) All the reports I've read/heard from LE surrounding the case have really stressed that CS came out of that incident physically unharmed. While no doubt it was traumatic and scary for her, and absolutely terrible for her parents, the man did not harm her physically in any way, and I don't think police believe he intended to either as far as what I have been able to glean from their statements. Not in any way diminishing the gravity of his crime. What he did was terrible. I'm just saying for me, until the WT case is solved, comparing the two of them at the moment feels like I could be unintentionally implying the individual in the CS case is something they are not.