Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #60

[PinkPower]

Fair theory, the only thing with these accident theories, regardless of neighbour or FF, its the initial screams and shrieks of an adult who has hit a child or seen them fall, or happened upon them. Your first instinct is not lets cover this up. Its a scream or shriek. No one heard one. The FF would have heard one from the neighbour. The Neighbour would have heard one from the foster family. He heard them playing, the other neighbour was on the porch having a cigarette its a missing piece of the puzzle. But then again you would think someone would see the abduction. Or see whoever hide the body.

Not everyone screams in these circumstances.
I certainly don't. I saw somebody hit by a car in front of me and quietly ran to help him, no screaming, nothing.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

I don’t really understand your response. I wasn’t on here for the Cleo case.

I’m saying just because “it happens” doesn’t mean it’s happened in this case. Parents (or foster parents) killing their children also “happens”.

We don’t know what happened. You don’t know, I don’t know. So why get so frustrated at people exploring the possibility being currently implied by the police? It’s possible is it not?

We have two theories that seem equally unlikely - a stranger abduction in broad daylight with people sitting on the deck, or a foster parent killing and burying a body in a seemingly short timeframe. Both possibilities are on the table. Both are strange.

In Cleo’s case Cleo was seen at the campground. They all went to bed. Very early in the morning she and her sleeping bag were gone. How far could a 4 year old go before dropping the sleeping bag? So she didn’t wander off. The zip was too high. Everything seemed to point to someone external opening the tent and scooping her up in her sleeping bag.

I don’t understand the frustration or snarky comments. Both possibilities are on the table.

I accept those possibilities. Why go into a solved case, it's solved, there was a brazen abduction in CS's case, why can't that apply here? The likelihood one or both FP's are involved in WT's disappearance, yes, it's a possibility too. FM is a POI and her story is being tested as we speak.
We're going through what we know and make our own deductions, the pages and pages about GJ and saying the FP are guilty is where this thread is going down.

 

[jackal67]

In regards to what was said about the birth parents seeing bruises on wt I have raised 3 very boisterous boys who have accidents ect but never had a black eye the fact that he had a black eye 22 days before he went missing after climbing in his foster mum I wonder what he hit his face on to cause a black eye? The picture is after it had already began to heal so must have been quite a bad bruise

Hi. New to this case I am in UK. So did the birth mother have visitation rights to WT and his sister?

 

[asyousay]

Well LE certainly believe they have found their guilty person.



it’s interesting how some don’t believe the person could of done yet LE wouldn’t go to all this trouble if they didn’t have some kind of proof of what they believe. I guess they now need a ton of evidence to back it up.


MOO

 

[JoeDetective]

Fair theory, the only thing with these accident theories, regardless of neighbour or FF, its the initial screams and shrieks of an adult who has hit a child or seen them fall, or happened upon them. Your first instinct is not lets cover this up. Its a scream or shriek. No one heard one. The FF would have heard one from the neighbour. The Neighbour would have heard one from the foster family. He heard them playing, the other neighbour was on the porch having a cigarette its a missing piece of the puzzle. But then again you would think someone would see the abduction. Or see whoever hide the body.

You can never be sure how someone is going to react, she did speak of a long extended roar then nothing.
The key differentiator in this case to most missing child cases is the motive for a coverup, undoubtedly they would have lost custody of the other child if WT died accidentally in their care. They have a motive that biological parents do not have to cover up an accident with a noble lie.
There is another case that comes to mind where the parents have a strong motive to cover up accidental death for professional reasons that has many parallels with this case.

This motive combined with the statistical probability of the parent's involvement, the statistical probability of the last person to see him being involved combined with the lack of any evidence pointing at abduction and the inconsistencies in statements it seems like an obvious primary line of enquiry.

 

[PinkPower]

I accept those possibilities. Why go into a solved case, it's solved, there was a brazen abduction in CS's case, why can't that apply here? The likelihood one or both FP's are involved in WT's disappearance, yes, it's a possibility too. FM is a POI and her story is being tested as we speak.
We're going through what we know and make our own deductions, the pages and pages about GJ and saying the FP are guilty is where this thread is going down.

Stranger abductions are very unusual. Particularly in a remote rural residential culdesac.

CS's case was anomalous in nearly every sense.
But it was obviously an abduction from the very beginning. The parents were exceptionally honest, and all evidence pointed towards an abduction. As opposed to this case, where there is literally no evidence that there was an abduction.

That's why comparing the two is perilous in addition to a logical fallacy of false equivalence, IMO.

 

[JBowie]

Hi. New to this case I am in UK. So did the birth mother have visitation rights to WT and his sister?

Yes, but it was only something like one hour every few months at a designated shopping centre and she has said that the foster parents made it very clear that they were never happy to see her and made those visits uncomfortable experiences for her.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

No one will be charged over William Tyrrell's disappearance unless physical evidence is found | Daily Mail Online

Police have confirmed that the search for William Tyrrell's remains has so far not turned up enough physical evidence for anyone to be prosecuted.

 

[Tigerlily75]

I accept those possibilities. Why go into a solved case, it's solved, there was a brazen abduction in CS's case, why can't that apply here? The likelihood one or both FP's are involved in WT's disappearance, yes, it's a possibility too. FM is a POI and her story is being tested as we speak.
We're going through what we know and make our own deductions, the pages and pages about GJ and saying the FP are guilty is where this thread is going down.

No one is saying it can’t. I literally just said both possibilities are on the table. It could have been an abduction. It could have been a murder (or accident and cover up). What I’m not understanding is the frustration directed at those who are exploring the latest theory coming from police, with FM as a POI.

I haven’t said “she’s guilty” at all and I resent that implication. But do I think it’s up there as a possibility? Absolutely. William was there and then he wasn’t. Something happened to him and FM was the last to see him. He was either abducted or he was killed. Why not wait and see where this goes instead of making your decision now? I mean do as you like of course, but I’m keeping an open mind.

Edit: apologies to the mods, I should have used initials when discussing the other case

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Stranger abductions are very unusual. Particularly in a remote rural residential culdesac.

CS's case was anomalous in nearly every sense.
But it was obviously an abduction from the very beginning. The parents were exceptionally honest, and all evidence pointed towards an abduction. As opposed to this case, where there is literally no evidence that there was an abduction.

That's why comparing the two is perilous in addition to a logical fallacy of false equivalence, IMO.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[marellajubes]

You can never be sure how someone is going to react, she did speak of a long extended roar then nothing.
The key differentiator in this case to most missing child cases is the motive for a coverup, undoubtedly they would have lost custody of the other child if WT died accidentally in their care. They have a motive that biological parents do not have to cover up an accident with a noble lie.
There is another case that comes to mind where the parents have a strong motive to cover up accidental death for professional reasons that has many parallels with this case.

This motive combined with the statistical probability of the parent's involvement, the statistical probability of the last person to see him being involved combined with the lack of any evidence pointing at abduction and the inconsistencies in statements it seems like an obvious primary line of enquiry.

Oh the theory is solid, like some of the other ones. There are a few things that fail me though and probably with more evidence will be clearer and without projecting myself and what I would do. The timeline erks me, its so tight and she gave herself that tight window. She called the cops. She could have waited longer. Unless you consider hiding it from the FF aswell. I guess we will see, IMO though this case is not being solved without a body or a confession, and due to time, I do not think a body is going to be discovered without a confession. So unless whoever did this breaks or someone who know something breaks or already has, I do not see it getting solved.

 

[PinkPower]

You can never be sure how someone is going to react, she did speak of a long extended roar then nothing.
The key differentiator in this case to most missing child cases is the motive for a coverup, undoubtedly they would have lost custody of the other child if WT died accidentally in their care. They have a motive that biological parents do not have to cover up an accident with a noble lie.
There is another case that comes to mind where the parents have a strong motive to cover up accidental death for professional reasons that has many parallels with this case.

This motive combined with the statistical probability of the parent's involvement, the statistical probability of the last person to see him being involved combined with the lack of any evidence pointing at abduction and the inconsistencies in statements it seems like an obvious primary line of enquiry.

Which case?

 

[PinkPower]

"The grandmother has also revealed insights into the supervised visits that her son and his partner had with William, while he was in the care of his foster parents.

'So, we were like just having a little picnic - out jumps the foster care mother … about like giving the kids lollipops and Kinder Surprises,' she said.

'So she's just like watching what's going on. Like and my son used to always say he was too scared to love his kids … he was too scared to love them for an hour ... supervised visits.'"

Source

 

[Tigerlily75]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Sometimes, some of us get it right. True story.

 

[HilaryHormone]

i wonder if fps are found not guilty of harming william and they are cleared of the assault charges on lt, will they ever be able to foster again?

I wonder if they’d even want to.

I agree, I'm thinking everything that can be done has been done to confirm the actual time of the pics, purely because the FM and the 96 minutes after the pics were taken is of interest in this new investigation.

Re: @SLouTh post with link

William’s foster parents told police that the timer on the camera was off by about two hours and it is understood that further investigations have confirmed that.

The photo discrepancy is one of the most perplexing aspects for me. Surely they should have been analysed in the early stages of the investigation, did it really take the bio Dad’s lawyer to notice at the inquest?

C’s explanation that the camera time was out originally sounds reasonable IMO. This may have been something that they picked up on when reviewing the photos and changed innocently with no malicious intentions. Or it could equally point to deception and twatting around with the timeline, of course. But the FC’s didn’t necessarily need to prove WT was alive at 09:37, they could have left the timestamp at 07:39 and we’d still be where we are at now surely?

Has anyone got a compilation of the variations in stories from the Foster Mother, from the various sources she has told her story, there is a multitude of problematic inconsistencies, certainly enough to never rule her out as a suspect. I do not see how she could be ruled out as a suspect based on the inconsistencies, that's not to say she is guilty but for her to not be a suspect at any stage of the investigation I find highly problematic.

It is definitely problematic, but the inconsistencies could have reasonable explanations and it’s clear they can’t move on her without evidence or a confession. IMO the FFC does not seem particularly likeable and could even be considered quite cold at times. This is a privileged, wealthy woman who has no issue with public speaking and clearly holds herself in high esteem. She has likely never been so helpless or had so little control in her life as she has since WT went missing. It’s very common for anxiety to manifest as anger, so IMO it is possible that her rage at LE investigating her is due to the impact that’s having on her sense of self; concern that focussing on her is detracting from finding the true culprit and/or anger that the apparent conflict within the ranks of LE is potentially blighting the investigation.


I am concerned that I haven’t read or heard anything from FFC where she goes any deeper than describing events though. As a parent, I’d be riddled with guilt at a child going missing in my care, my own or someone else’s. Perhaps the details that some are finding odd (e.g. positioning of taking photo/stopping for a truck to pass/the silence after that last roar etc), however, are her means of being open without exposing her private grief/guilt. I continue to be baffled by poor WT’s case and pray for whoever is responsible to be identified and punished. I’m just not sure the FFC’s personality is indication of guilt, but if genuine evidence or a confession comes to light then I don’t think I’d be shocked either. I just don’t understand why all the adults present that day aren’t implicated together. Just MOO.

Yes, but it was only something like one hour every few months at a designated shopping centre and she has said that the foster parents made it very clear that they were never happy to see her and made those visits uncomfortable experiences for her.

IMO interactions with the bio family of a child you are offering alternative care for would be uncomfortable also. Some families never agree with care plans and can be hostile towards FC’s. I read somewhere that the visits were also supervised by two workers from children’s services which in my experience could be due to ongoing risk and need for collaboration, indicating this wasn’t a family who worked with them willingly. In those circumstances, I’d make effort to arrange for workers to transport the child also to reduce contact between the FC and bio family, because it’s not fair on a child to witness either. That arrangement would obviously depend on availability of resources though.

 

[asyousay]

How many days after did the Foster Mum suddenly remember suspicious cars?


Surely that’s the kind of thing you remember straight away as your thinking your son has been taken?!

 

[Trivento]

How many days after did the Foster Mum suddenly remember suspicious cars?


Surely that’s the kind of thing you remember straight away as your thinking your son has been taken?!

In the recent CO doc.(7 News ) ..ex FBI related detective KI said it would not be at all unusual for a recollection like that to take a couple of days to reappear due to initial shock effects.

 

[asyousay]

In the recent CO doc.(7 News ) ..ex FBI related detective KI said it would not be at all unusual for a recollection like that to take a couple of days to reappear due to initial shock effects.

Thanks - or we what the Police are saying she simply made it up to bolster her case in saying he had vanished.



looking at Google maps it’s pretty isolated so the odds on her leaving him alone unsupervised and a perv just waiting in a car seems pretty remote.


MOO IMO

 

[jackal67]

Yes, but it was only something like one hour every few months at a designated shopping centre and she has said that the foster parents made it very clear that they were never happy to see her and made those visits uncomfortable experiences for her.

Thank you

 

[Trivento]

Thanks - or we what the Police are saying she simply made it up to bolster her case in saying he had vanished.

looking at Google maps it’s pretty isolated so the odds on her leaving him alone unsupervised and a perv just waiting in a car seems pretty remote.


MOO IMO

An acquaintance of FA had been at the house not long before WT disappearance to give a decking repair quote according the documentary.
It’s possible some info about house was given to FA who perhaps went out there on the 12th with theft in mind or suchlike and it escalated into an opportunistic abduction.
Despite recent news I don’t think that scenario should be abandoned yet..imo