Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #60

[silverau]

RSBM

I just cant imagine anyone would risk calling police if you knew your child’s body was somewhere on your property.

IF the events were an accident and covered up (I am not passing judgement that this is what happened btw, this is my opinion) I feel that there could have been the hope that his body would be found and explained away (dependent on injuries, if any) as misadventure, got lost in the bush, fell down a hole, etc. When the focus becomes clear on an abduction, and no body found, I guess you'd run with that angle.

Suddenly remembering ( after a solo trip with your mind as company to the airport) days later you saw two cars that morning would have helped deflect suspicion on you.

Just my own opinion.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Its a good question actually.

And if adjusted, when? Just after she took the photo? When she says she went inside and neglected to make mention that was an activity she did (the camera) or when she was asked for a recent photo of William for investigators? (Latter is more reasonable IMO)

I'd also like to know if it was JUST that photo with the time adjusted in the sequence of patio photos or if all in the sequence were adjusted.

NoCookies | The Australian

William’s foster Mum has told police the later time is the correct one, saying the clock’s camera was off by about two hours.
A forensic digital report into the matter is being conducted, but the results were not released with the photographs today.
The photos are key evidence, because they provide “proof of life” for William on the morning of his disappearance.

 

[Thebottomline]

Its a good question actually.

And if adjusted, when? Just after she took the photo? When she says she went inside and neglected to make mention that was an activity she did (the camera) or when she was asked for a recent photo of William for investigators? (Latter is more reasonable IMO)

I'd also like to know if it was JUST that photo with the time adjusted in the sequence of patio photos or if all in the sequence were adjusted.

Wouldn’t it have been easier to just delete the photos ?

 

[iiiii's]

I am thinking that this search of the Kendall area has been planned for a while due to the number of officers involved. I thought it was said that this line of inquiry has been in the pipeline for quite a while. I'm wondering if they have just been waiting for an excuse to take William's sister from the Foster Carers for any reason they could think of. The investigators would know that when things "hit the fan" that the girl would need to be in a stable place. I'm wondering if they know full well the bruising is innocent but it gave them the an opportunity to act. It is just strange that as soon as she is reported to have bruising she is removed and the intense investigations and public innuendo began.

BBM This is a concern to me as well, to give them a taste of what it might feel like if she was removed completely to coerce some type of co-operation from the FP's. If it's a disingenuous tactic by the police, IMO it is cruel to this whole family.

 

[Tigerlily75]

I am thinking that this search of the Kendall area has been planned for a while due to the number of officers involved. I thought it was said that this line of inquiry has been in the pipeline for quite a while. I'm wondering if they have just been waiting for an excuse to take William's sister from the Foster Carers for any reason they could think of. The investigators would know that when things "hit the fan" that the girl would need to be in a stable place. I'm wondering if they know full well the bruising is innocent but it gave them the an opportunity to act. It is just strange that as soon as she is reported to have bruising she is removed and the intense investigations and public innuendo began.

Whatever has happened to the sister was discovered during the course of the homicide investigation by homicide detectives, rather than a separate report. It’s a homicide detective listed as bringing the AVO on public court listings. Whatever is being searched now has been planned for awhile and it was publicized in early September that they may have new leads and a new suspect. That’s when the family made the statement on the official FB page calling it “fake news”

Edit to add, from September 8: William Tyrrell's foster parents say reports of new lead is 'fake news'

 

[marellajubes]

Ok so the thing is this 96 minute window, all these things had to have happened, based on Prime Suspects post (sorry cannot link it as old thread)

WT had a fatal accident within minutes of the photo taken,
FM hid the body immediately (presumably in FGM car or temporarily in roof cavity/under house???),
FM made 2 landline phone calls, one to BS about washing machine, 2nd call to GO about the deck,
not having cups of tea and catch with her mother but plotting what to do next,
decided to 'look' for WT,
transferred body to FGM car or the body was already in boot after immediately after accident,
disposes of body by burying in the bushes while 'searching' for WT.
FGM has agreed to last sighting of WT outside playing,
FM calls FF on phone and he's taken it on board, and is instantly agreeable to a cover up. FF returns home and the whole charade begins.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ok things that do not add up to me is the ability for all this to happen and a covered up in the 96 minutes. Not to mention it would be the FM dictating that it be 96minutes. Remember she chose to call the police at that time, why not giver herself more time, why not a whole day. Was it done so the FF wouldnt find out, seems odd.

Also people are not career criminals, I assume anyone here would think that when a kid goes missing that LE would check attics and basements and sniffer dogs in car boots etc. We see so many crime shows we would just know we wouldn't get away with it or wouldnt think we would. The FF would be the same. It seems like an extremely high risk for little reward, if accident theory is correct, the risk of being caught with a dead body in the attic (or wherever it was) is a lot more than getting charged for a tragic accident.


Im starting to think that they have gone over every single bit of information and they have absolutely no one they can get a solid case on, and they only thing that has not been thoroughly checked it seems is the FM and the car/house. Also they are basing the entire investigation on the first statements of the FF, so maybe now the tactic is fresh eyes, lets look at it as though those statements are false and see where we end up. Honestly this should have been done at the beginning, and according to the FF they invite any thorough investigation, so I hope they still stand by this.

The AVO and the assault charge, whilst serious, it could be a trumped up charge to scare them and see if they break, the police may know full well it wont lead to anything (want to stipulate I have no more info than anyone else, it could be a very serious abuse incident). But we dont know anything about the circumstances, was this a child who went to their teacher to say abuse occured, were police called to an altercation. Or did someone see bruising and didnt believe the story told by the daughter and/or foster family.

Its such a tight window, and unless the accident occurred because of temper or anger or premeditated its seems strange that it would be covered up. Also not just getting your daughter and elderly mother to play along, but play along convincingly. Thats what gets me they would all have to be so convincing. Unless the mother knew the police would blame the Bio family, and led them down that path. But again, such a tight window to even calm done enough to convincingly pull it off.

 

[Waverider]

It's either a red flag or incredibly unfortunate that the time on the digital camera was adjusted for the morning WT disappeared. I may have missed it, but do LE know if someone adjusted the time before or after WT went missing?

It was discussed in the previous thread and I don’t think LE released this info. HOWEVER, to change the metadata retroactively it looks like it would have to be done on a computer, which suggests it was done after WT went missing.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Wouldn’t it have been easier to just delete the photos ?

That's a good question, imo, no last pictures of WT on the morning he disappeared would be catastrophic for the FP's account of that morning. Also, forensics could discover the camera was recently used and files deleted, hints to suspicious activity.
Lastly, FP's and all the family would cherish those last pictures of WT and they wouldn't consider removing them.

Also, GO, the deck man, said at the inquest, when he walked through the FGM's house, he saw pictures on display of FP's and the children. Imo, those last pictures were to add to the collection for FGM if things hadn't gone awry. JMO

 

[marellajubes]

I take Jubelin's word for it. If he said in his published book, that FGM's car was forensically examined and the Foster parents had their phones and computers examined, then I believe him. I don't think he would put that in the book if it was untrue. JMO

Great Expectations posted upthread:

And yet in CO's book "Missing William Tyrrell" page 97 it states that "There had been forensic testing of William's foster nana's car, and of the new four wheel drive. His foster parents had surrendered computers and phones for forensic testing too. "

And in the paragraph prior, " A crime scene officer...had gained consent from William's foster nana to conduct a forensic search of her house, three days after William disappeared"

He came in 5/6mths into the case, so any early forensics were done under a different lead. He may very well have thought thorough forensics were carried out, but maybe with a more thorough look during the coronial inquest found it wasn't sufficient enough, or maybe new technology exists now. Or maybe they have found something, and need to test fibres from the car's carpet against new sample.

There are a tonne of reasons why its been revisited, or why GB thinks it was done and wasn't at all or done properly.

 

[bearbear]

regarding the time difference with the camera, wasnt it found to be an odd number, like not exactly 2 hours, which it would be if it was a zoning difference but something like 2 hours 11 seconds, we discussed it way back?

 

[minusfour]

The police seem fairly confident. I haven't seen leaking like this for a long while.

I thought the current foster child might have known something, and talked now.

 

[marellajubes]

IF the events were an accident and covered up (I am not passing judgement that this is what happened btw, this is my opinion) I feel that there could have been the hope that his body would be found and explained away (dependent on injuries, if any) as misadventure, got lost in the bush, fell down a hole, etc. When the focus becomes clear on an abduction, and no body found, I guess you'd run with that angle.

Suddenly remembering ( after a solo trip with your mind as company to the airport) days later you saw two cars that morning would have helped deflect suspicion on you.

Just my own opinion.

But if orchestrated you would say that first thing? You go to the lengths of hiding a body, lying etc, would you not have a stranger danger story ready? Unless they thought they could blame it on a bio family abduction , which police initially thought was the case and when that didn't pan out after a few days, the new theory comes to you.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Re photos .. is it possible someone tried to adjust the time on the camera to the right time when they noticed it was out? I know perhaps not the smartest thing to do considering, but maybe at the time someone looked at them and thought 'Oh look the clock is completely out, let me change that to the right time now so that the photos show the actual time they were taken'?

 

[JLZ]

Wouldn’t it have been easier to just delete the photos ?

The point would be to make it look like William was alive and well and present at the later time. This would distract from a cover-up before that time.

 

[marellajubes]

regarding the time difference with the camera, wasnt it found to be an odd number, like not exactly 2 hours, which it would be if it was a zoning difference but something like 2 hours 11 seconds, we discussed it way back?

It was the inverse of each other. 7.39 and 9.37

Im a bit dyslexic and write my numbers backwards, so maybe in a rush or a particular way you learn or see numbers might account for this. Or it was just the time difference. Im sure experts were able to explain exactly what happened. Maybe that what has prompted the whole thing now.

 

[Thebottomline]

The police seem fairly confident. I haven't seen leaking like this for a long while.

I thought the current foster child might have known something, and talked now.

It’s felt like this a number of times with BS PS FA but this is the first time it’s reported they are solely focused on one person , the fm .

 

[marellajubes]

The point would be to make it look like William was alive and well and present at the later time. This would distract from a cover-up before that time.

Surely they looked at light and shadow and what not to prove the time of the photo beyond the discrepancies in the metadata. It would be easy enough to replicate.

 

[JLZ]

Re photos .. is it possible someone tried to adjust the time on the camera to the right time when they noticed it was out? I know perhaps not the smartest thing to do considering, but maybe at the time someone looked at them and thought 'Oh look the clock is completely out, let me change that to the right time now so that the photos show the actual time they were taken'?

Yes, but then it was called into question it would be sensible to admit to correcting the time.

 

[Thebottomline]

The point would be to make it look like William was alive and well and present at the later time. This would distract from a cover-up before that time.

I get that but if they had the presence of mind to think to do that then they must have reason to believe it may be something LE would look into , seems risky

 

[Gotta have Faith]

"William was dressed in a 'Spiderman' costume and he was full of beans," the grandmother told police a few days later according to a statement released by the NSW Coroners Court on Tuesday.
"He was jumping out of his skin with energy."
After playing on the rear verandah William ran around the right side of the house toward the front of the property.
"That's the last time I saw William," she said.
The woman describes the harrowing first moments of the search in which her daughter, William's foster mother, was calling out for the young boy.
Police arrived to search the house and surrounding area and the scene descended into "pandemonium", the foster grandmother stated at the time.
"I can't think of anyone who would want to harm William," she said, noting local police officer Wendy Hudson first asked the question.
"I suggested (a neighbour) across the road (as he keeps odd hours and lives alone).
"Wendy assures me that she has checked him out thoroughly."
AAP has chosen not to name the neighbour.
The foster grandmother, in the same police statement, said she was also concerned William might have made his way to nearby Batar Creek Road which had "lots of traffic moving back and forth".

William Tyrrell's foster nan named neighbour in investigation

"I suggested (a neighbour) across the road (as he keeps odd hours and lives alone).

Hmm, I'm wondering why the FGM pointed the finger at the neighbour across the road?? What was behind that? A dispute? Did the FGM have anything to do with WT disappearing? Was he too boisterous for her ?