Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #60

[DDDddd]

The exact same was said about CS's abduction. No one would go to a an isolated spot with children at 6.30 at night. The majority of the public did not believe anyone could enter a tent with parents asleep inside and sneak out a child.
The parents were abused, threatened and villified by the public for their interviews and how they responded, how they drove around looking for their child and didn't wait at the tent, why they even went camping with kids in the first place, the way she was dressed, her parenting style, one parent being a step parent so........

And yet a kid snatched from a tent in the middle of the night while asleep made alot more sense to me re opportunistic abduction.

But broad daylight at 10 am on a big block at someone's private property while they're milling closeby just seems... inconceivable. What if the FM walked out? Why William and not his sister? How did it happen so quietly?

I'm not saying any other theory is more or less likely, but just that this one wouldn't have been my first consideration.

Is it possible that in attempting to not look incompetent the FM has tried to truncate the timeframe (her repetition of 'five minutes ago') and maybe William hasn't been supervised for a much longer period of time, which would lead to a greater chance of abduction (eg if he was sitting down in the front gutter for half an hour)?

Could it have been a different kind of accident - i know there has been consideration of a car running him over in the driveway but maybe he was wandering on the road and someone hit him but took the body to avoid charges?

Aside from malicious intent, abduction, covered up accident, or getting stuck, what else is there?

 

[nunaloon]

In regards to cadaver dogs it is a hotly debated topic. I heave heard it said the dog is only as good as its handler. All due respect to the dedication and commitment of the trainers and dogs . As I understand it LE have a variety of tools (so to speak ) to aid in investigation and all play an important part.

 

[drsleuth]

Thanks Doc.....
So the tea was made about 10:00am (roughly) , and possibly FM left the house for the drive and returned by 10:30ish, and at 11:06 when Rowley arrived the tea was still warm????

Does tea stay warm for an hour??? (I don't drink tea, but my coffee would be undrinkable after an hour)

Just wondering?? and wondering how it all fits with the timeline??? And WHY that question was asked??? Was it so obscure to catch someone by surprise??

JMO

I don't know , but Caddock wanted us to know

 

[drsleuth]

It's in the video statement..... IIRC
That was released by the Coroner during the inquest...

Correct

 

[bearbear]

it seems pretty lame police/msm calling out the fm as a liar because william was photographed without shoes on,
as others have said he could have slipped them off and on to go running around the yard, there must be more to the shoes?

 

[srper2]

If so, then I think the cadaver dogs would have detected that by now.

Thanks for the photos. Nice place ... pity about its recent history.

As far as I know, they never used dogs until recently? If the body was found by the family years later and moved maybe that is what they are looking for now? I remember the sad story of a man who went missing and his father found his body under the house caught between rock and brickwork and it had been right at the family home from day 1.

 

[cocomonkey]

Monday's 15th Nov announcement in news.com.au:
Police launch new search for William Tyrrell, saying there’s ‘no doubt’ they’re looking for remains.
Police have revealed “many hundreds of officers” will search three locations in the area where William Tyrrell vanished more than seven years ago — and conceded that they are most likely looking for the little boy’s remains after new evidence came to light.

That's a lot of officers and a lot of confident language. I'm feeling certain that they know more than they can let on but that this time they are on the right track, (excuse the pun.)

I really feel like the Foster mother foolishly tried to hide what happened for fear of losing William's sister. I think the fact that she has come across as believable and trustworthy is because fundamentally she is of good character. However, I can't think of any explanation as to why she didn't ring ambulance if she found him injured. It really doesn't fit in with any normal maternal feelings. No matter what type of carer you are you would immediately try to save that child. How dead could he be that she felt there was no hope?

 

[SouthAussie]

I think the time stamp on the camera was an oversight on the FPs behalf and worked in their favour. IMO it is unlikely they altered it. Rather, I think if the photo was taken at 7:39 they lied to police saying it was taken later, and it just so happens that the camera settings were wrong and it looks like it was taken at 9:39 instead.

So, whether the camera time is right or wrong, no matter how it 'corrected' ... they still took the photo at 7:39am, for some reason?

 

[Gotta have Faith]

I don't know, I feel like he might not have been. I feel sometimes - and always have - like some of the FFCs staged-sounding responses and overly detailed stories could be simply over-compensating for guilt over him going missing on her watch. I feel like enough time passed between when he was definitely last seen and when the real search began that he might genuinely have gotten lost and his body simply be missing somewhere they never thought he'd be able to go. Bodies do sometimes go missed by search parties, sometimes search parties that travel quite close by, and it's not until years down the track that land gets cleared, or some intrepid hikers cut a new path or something, that the body is found.

Years and years of apparently 'expert' police work, an inquiry, and still no firm, clear, obvious abduction suspect? Like I just can't fathom that, not after 7 years. If all this investigating (which should have been done FIRST thing) of the fosters rules them out then no I don't inevitably go back to assuming it's abduction. Abduction of random children by strangers is extremely rare. For this stranger to have abducted him *so well* that there's no body, no trace, from the middle of nowhere (relatively speaking)... just seems too weird. Pedophiles and those who create CSAM usually do so with children who are known to them, or willingly shared/given to them.

of course my theory that his body might just have been missed by a search party could also work for being abducted, not by a criminal mastermind who has brilliantly hidden the body without a trace, but by someone who just got lucky he hasn't been found yet.

Stranger things have happened though (and I feel like you can almost say that about any theory going at this point)

Your post is well written, thought out, logical, thank you. There has been so much Media attention given to this case over the years (like MM) and not one person has had charges laid against them, nor has anyone come forward with any REAL leads, even to collect the reward on offer. Are these perfect crimes or just lucky? I still cannot get my head around, WT is visiting FGM and he disappears ! I could believe if he was snatched from the house he lived in as his permanent residence with FPs, but to be visiting FGM and then no trace of him, as you said in a quiet area at the back of beyond and after all this time...NOTHING of substance???

 

[SLouTh]

"Emails from William's case worker in 2014 reveal the foster parents were making enquiries to adopt William and discussions were even had on the morning the little boy vanished."

I don't recall the FM mentioning this correspondnce in her timeline of events?

Can I ask where this info came from?? FM did make 2 other phone calls that morning that we know of .... however we may not have been told of this information as a lot of info was suppressed at the inquest - especially the foster information...

Very interesting information though.....

Time line is posted in this thread .... maybe 10 pages back??

IMO

 

[PinkPower]

So, whether the camera time is right or wrong ... they still took the photo at 7:39am, for some reason?

I believe the camera was forensically examined and found to be set 2 hours in advance? I could be wrong. I'm not across every detail of this case.

 

[Green beans]

I feel like we need Color coded time lines for every single person who was on / in / out of the street that day, all in one spreadsheet where events are marked to see exactly how it measures up. It’s so hard to put together and mix ups from reporting, and what not make it even more confusing. Was that ever done here? Like a whole streets events that morning- spread sheet

 

[PinkPower]

Can I ask where this info came from?? FM did make 2 other phone calls that morning that we know of .... however we may not have been told of this information as a lot of info was suppressed at the inquest - especially the foster information...

Very interesting information though.....

Time line is posted in this thread .... maybe 10 pages back??

IMO

Sorry, it's at this link: William Tyrrell's biological grandmother speaks out

I haven't seen a time line of the phone calls she made.

 

[iiiii's]

And yet a kid snatched from a tent in the middle of the night while asleep made alot more sense to me re opportunistic abduction.

But broad daylight at 10 am on a big block at someone's private property while they're milling closeby just seems... inconceivable. What if the FM walked out? Why William and not his sister? How did it happen so quietly?


Aside from malicious intent, abduction, covered up accident, or getting stuck, what else is there?

RSBM

Trafficking.

 

[SecondHandLover]

Does anyone actually believe the FF had the time, skill and foresight to change the photo times?

I'm fairly computer literate and that's not something that's straight forward to do as a panicked thought and in a very narrow window.

Best leave that discrepancy to some automated software mechanism, imo.

I'm not sure how the discrepancy got leaked to the public?

Surely by now Police have done some tests on similar cameras to see how they behave under similar settings. They surely know one way or the other what the time stamps mean.

FF did not hand over the photos until the next day, meaning hypothetically they could have had more than 24 hours to do it. I wouldn't call that a narrow window. I believe FD is very computer literate so I don't have trouble believing he could have the knowledge to do it if so desired.

The discrepancy got leaked due to the coronial inquest. The coroner urgently ordered investigators to forensically examine the photos to find out definitively what time the photos were taken and what caused the time difference. If police were able to reach a conclusive answer to this, it has not been made public yet.

 

[PinkPower]

It seems like Gary J had a soft spot for these FP, and took everything they said at face value. I feel like the Australian public were misled, because the abduction story was pushed so hard from the beginning, and it seems like any other (more obvious) avenue was dismissed.

I noticed the same. He seems awfully close with the FM. I'm not sure if there is something more to that, but it's unusual and seems unprofessional that he would publicly come out defending them when they have been charged with assaulting a minor. Bizarro!!!!

 

[JBowie]

Why wouldn't you delete the photo if it incriminated you?

Because you believe that it supports your story.

Why would you move the body?

Because you panicked. Thinks: this terrible accident is going to ruin my adoption plans.

Police solve crimes because they're good at understanding how people act when they're not behaving rationally.

They solve them when they find irrefutable proof and/or get a confession. Getting the latter usually requires putting a lot of heat on the chief suspect(s).

But I do think it's unhelpful to understanding the motives of the current police investigation to be throwing out questions related to logical actions a person would take to cover up a crime.

There's no questioning of police motives. The police are very publicly conducting a thorough search for evidence that a cover up of one sort or another has possibly occurred.

 

[SLouTh]

Sorry, it's at this link: William Tyrrell's biological grandmother speaks out

I haven't seen a time line of the phone calls she made.

Thanks ....

An early timeline, just of that morning, is here :
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #60
Pg 10

 

[iiiii's]

This is interesting:

"Emails from William's case worker in 2014 reveal the foster parents were making enquiries to adopt William and discussions were even had on the morning the little boy vanished."

I don't recall the FM mentioning this correspondnce in her timeline of events?

Does anyone have a timeline of the calls the FM made the morning William went missing?

I'll have to just put this down to my opinion however,I believe the phonecalls that may have taken place that morning were between agencies and not made by the FP's. IMO

 

[Angeline]

My take on the photo is, it was probably the forensics that adjusted the photo time when they got the camera & realised the time difference.

When it was bought up at the inquest by Swift ( rep the Bio dad ) & the corner agreed that should be looked at & Craddock agreed.

We never heard anymore about it , so I assume it all checked out

All IMO

Thanks drsleuth.

I wonder if the photo time actually didn't check out and if it's something that helped prompt this latest turn of events.

In an exclusive story, The Australian revealed that the currently halted inquest will now conduct an urgent forensic examination of the photograph.

... a newly revealed document from the inquest’s brief of evidence, obtained by The Australian, says the jpeg photograph was “created” at 7.30am and “corrected” at 9.37am.

... the report by X-Ways forensic software reads: “Created 12/09/2014 07:39:54 Corrected time: 12/09/2014 09:37:44”.

Mystery over last photo of William Tyrrell

12/09/'14
6-7am Children get up
7-7.30 FM gets up and opens curtains to see 2 strange cars parked across the road from her house between AMS house and number 35's house.
7.30 - Dress, get ready for the day

RSBM.

Original timestamp on the photo 7.39am.

FFC reportedly sees 2 strange cars at approx 7-7.30am

(AFAIK, no one else saw these cars on the street that day.)