Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #61

[Tigerlily75]

I can't find anything about whether the truck driver was ever found, came forward, questioned.

I'm fixated on it, because I can't understand why she is talking about this truck driver when she doesn't appear to have been asked about it (video of walk through could of edited that out).

And she talks about the truck driver not as a potential suspect but to tell us "he thanked me for pulling over but I hadn't pulled over, I had my head out the window looking for William"

Why the need to tell us that? Who cares if the truck driver thought she had pulled over?

So there's that aspect that bothers me but also, I would then expect her to question whether the truck driver might have been responsible because clearly the truck driver was in the area at the time.

Later on FM talks about seeing suspicious cars in the area, even locking eyes with one driver.

If FM saw the truck driver thank her for pulling over (which she emphatically denies doing) then clearly she locked eyes with him too (even though she had her head out the window looking for WT).

If my child was suspected to have been kidnapped, and presumably I was asked to go over every car and every person I'd seen in the area at the time, then I'd certainly mention the truck driver.

Because hypothetically the truck driver could have pulled over to have a wee on the side of the road or pulled into a truck stop for something to eat. Spotted little WT walking alone, looking for Daddy. Truck driver walks over to WT, takes him into his truck, starts driving, sees FM, thanks her for (not) pulling over and keeps going.

To be clear: I don't think the truck driver did this. What I'm saying is, it's a plausible scenario that I would expect the FM to consider and for police to find him and rule out.

Instead, I'm only seeing FM refer to the truck driver, not as a potential POI, but as way of defending herself. As way of explaining why she was on the side of the road.

Maybe someone who is more familiar with the case can clarify whether this truck driver was ever found, or is he the new witness?

JMO. Speculation. MOO.

I’m fixated on this now too. Your post is spot on.

 

[Milisi]

They sure were , along with Alioop and DS.

A very important special time in my life looking out for one I knew was a gem and had suffered a crap lottery.

 

[Warshawski]

Maybe growing up?

perhaps - but the words that stood out for me were ‘previously unknown’ so IMO that negated all those we’ve discussed

 

[Tigerlily75]

If he fell from a balcony, why would she not call an ambulance, but would instead, secretly, coldly, stash his body in her mother's car trunk?

I am trying to understand that decision. I don't think she would have lost her daughter, even if he had been severely injured or had died, from an accidental fall. Accidents like that happen all the time, especially when a child is at a relatives home, and not in a familiar, child proofed location.

It would have been a horrible tragic accident. It is hard for me to accept that she made that instantaneous decision and acted so cold and callous in the aftermath.

Is she an evil, heartless sociopath? I guess maybe if this new development is correct.

That's the thing, we don’t always understand why people do things. I don’t understand why Chris Watts didn’t just get a divorce, and how on earth he thought he was going to get away with killing his whole family. It just makes no sense. Some things just don’t make sense.

 

[Estelle]

I can't find anything about whether the truck driver was ever found, came forward, questioned.

I'm fixated on it, because I can't understand why she is talking about this truck driver when she doesn't appear to have been asked about it (video of walk through could of edited that out).

And she talks about the truck driver not as a potential suspect but to tell us "he thanked me for pulling over but I hadn't pulled over, I had my head out the window looking for William"

Why the need to tell us that? Who cares if the truck driver thought she had pulled over?

So there's that aspect that bothers me but also, I would then expect her to question whether the truck driver might have been responsible because clearly the truck driver was in the area at the time.

Later on FM talks about seeing suspicious cars in the area, even locking eyes with one driver.

If FM saw the truck driver thank her for pulling over (which she emphatically denies doing) then clearly she locked eyes with him too (even though she had her head out the window looking for WT).

If my child was suspected to have been kidnapped, and presumably I was asked to go over every car and every person I'd seen in the area at the time, then I'd certainly mention the truck driver.

Because hypothetically the truck driver could have pulled over to have a wee on the side of the road or pulled into a truck stop for something to eat. Spotted little WT walking alone, looking for Daddy. Truck driver walks over to WT, takes him into his truck, starts driving, sees FM, thanks her for (not) pulling over and keeps going.

To be clear: I don't think the truck driver did this. What I'm saying is, it's a plausible scenario that I would expect the FM to consider and for police to find him and rule out.

Instead, I'm only seeing FM refer to the truck driver, not as a potential POI, but as way of defending herself. As way of explaining why she was on the side of the road.

Maybe someone who is more familiar with the case can clarify whether this truck driver was ever found, or is he the new witness?

JMO. Speculation. MOO.

IMO many of these embellishments to FFC's story are red herrings.

What is a red herring defense?

Logical fallacy: According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a red herring may be intentional, or unintentional; it is not necessarily a conscious intent to mislead. The expression is mainly used to assert that an argument is not relevant to the issue being discussed.

A Red Herring Fallacy is a reference to fish with a strong odor. It could be used to confuse a dog that hunts by smell. By covering up a person's smell with the smell of a stinky fish, dogs could be led away from a person that the dogs were tracking.

 

[Memento Mori]

I think the same as you Mussopossum the investigators and law enforcement would not be doing a test as extensive and intensive as this if they did not have just cause and confidence that there was a strong possibility of finding William’s remains and/or crucial evidence relating to his case.

If little William is found and whoever is responsible for his death or a coverup of his accidental death is charged and convicted I hope the Australian authorities will take legal action to recover the costs involved of the investigation and search for him.

The total cost of the investigation and search must be several million Australian dollars. I do not begrudge a cent that has been spent searching for little William because he needs to be found, given a funeral and a proper grave. He deserves justice and so do his parents and family for the ordeal they have suffered and are still experiencing.

If it turns out there has been a coverup of William’s death whoever the person(s) is has stood by and watched millions of tax payer dollars being spent investigating and searching for him. The authorities and general public will be extremely angry if that is what has happened and rightly so.

I don’t know if whoever the person(s) involved will have the kind of money required to reimburse the Australian tax payers for all the costs of the search and investigation. But they need to be held legally and financially accountable for what they have done if they are charged and convicted. If they need to sell property or any assets they have to pay back as much as they can back to the Australian tax payers then that is what they should have to do.

Hear! Hear!

 

[Gotta have Faith]

How a no-nonsense 'old school' detective has turned the William Tyrrell investigation on its head - and he's cracked some of Australia's toughest cases

William Tyrrell investigation led by detective David Laidlaw in Kendall | Daily Mail Online

I posted that earlier at the end of the previous thread
Laidlaw isnt the sort of person to walk through a crime scene for cameras

 

[JBowie]

Not publishing the names and faces of foster parents is understandable in terms of protection of foster children, however it also keeps the public in the dark at the very time the police are asking the public to come forward with anything they may feel is relevant.

I can imagine a hypothetical circumstance where a member of the public seeing their face in the media might say, "Gee, he/she looks a lot like that person who I noticed belting a little kid in the shopping centre car park a few months ago. Better ring Crime Stoppers and let them know."

 

[stormyseas]

I can't find anything about whether the truck driver was ever found, came forward, questioned.

I'm fixated on it, because I can't understand why she is talking about this truck driver when she doesn't appear to have been asked about it (video of walk through could of edited that out).

And she talks about the truck driver not as a potential suspect but to tell us "he thanked me for pulling over but I hadn't pulled over, I had my head out the window looking for William"

Why the need to tell us that? Who cares if the truck driver thought she had pulled over?

So there's that aspect that bothers me but also, I would then expect her to question whether the truck driver might have been responsible because clearly the truck driver was in the area at the time.

Later on FM talks about seeing suspicious cars in the area, even locking eyes with one driver.

If FM saw the truck driver thank her for pulling over (which she emphatically denies doing) then clearly she locked eyes with him too (even though she had her head out the window looking for WT).

If my child was suspected to have been kidnapped, and presumably I was asked to go over every car and every person I'd seen in the area at the time, then I'd certainly mention the truck driver.

Because hypothetically the truck driver could have pulled over to have a wee on the side of the road or pulled into a truck stop for something to eat. Spotted little WT walking alone, looking for Daddy. Truck driver walks over to WT, takes him into his truck, starts driving, sees FM, thanks her for (not) pulling over and keeps going.

To be clear: I don't think the truck driver did this. What I'm saying is, it's a plausible scenario that I would expect the FM to consider and for police to find him and rule out.

Instead, I'm only seeing FM refer to the truck driver, not as a potential POI, but as way of defending herself. As way of explaining why she was on the side of the road.

Maybe someone who is more familiar with the case can clarify whether this truck driver was ever found, or is he the new witness?

JMO. Speculation. MOO.

It would make more sense to me if FFC had waved down the truck driver to ask if he had seen William. IMO

 

[SleepyJoe]

I have thought the same and only logical reasons that come to mind for myself if the balcony fall and cover up are correct are:

- Fear of removal of the other child in their care

- Shame around the way that this will appear to others and damage their reputation

- Reporting this accident would have resulted in an autopsy, perhaps bringing to light other abuse that WT had been subjected to.

JMO

Would love to hear other peoples theories!

Yes, I think that your thoughts are very plausible.

*** The following is my own pure speculation only about a possible sequences of events that could explain why someone might hide an accident***
***I am not suggesting that this is how the FFC felt or acted, nor that she is guilty if any crime***

Imagine a hypothetical professional person who is successful, with a good reputation, who is entrusted by others to look after non-biological children. This person likes things neat and organised and cares about things like efficient and timely repair of household goods, making sure that children in their care eat well and always brush their teeth before bed (even when arriving late at night to an away-from-home destination they are going to stay - instead of just letting them go to bed), that these children have a beautiful home to live in, go on nice holidays, have an abundance of toys, this person even makes story boards of the children with lots and lots of videos and photographs etc etc. This person likes others to think well of them and wants to think of themselves as doing a really good job of looking after the children (and convince others of this as well). They also really want to have a family of their own and have waited a long time to create one. They are invested in creating the Insta-perfect/ Facebook happy family image. Imagine that this person, being tired from a long car trip the night before, then getting up early with the kids, struggling with a boisterous child who is being demanding about what clothes to put on, then gets distracted doing something inside while the children are playing outside. This person then suddenly realises that they haven't heard one of the children in a while, and, feeling bad about not being attentive, quickly goes off to find the child. But instead, tragically, they come across a lifeless child who has been in a terrible accident. This person is used to being in control. They gasp, one hand flies up to the mouth in horror as they swallow their scream. This person knew that they weren't keeping a close eye on the child and now they feel completely responsible. Oh my goodness, how will the person ever explain this to anyone?! And now, because they know they *should* (in their minds) have been more attentive and are potentially to blame, the other much-wanted child might be taken away from them! Panic ensues "OMG! What can I do? I can't let anyone know about this!". In their panic, in a bizarre spur-of-the moment decision, the person decides to hide the body of the child - so the sibling doesn't see the body, so the partner won't know what happened. This person has a lot to lose if people think the child perished on their watch. Then, when the partner arrives to the scene, the person tells the partner that they can't find the child! The partner tells the person to call 000..... and it all snowballs from there.

This doesn't seem to make any sense to most of us. Many of us would scream, call an ambulance etc etc. But some may not scream, and in the heat of the moment, when stakes are high and thinking clouded by guilt, self-preservation and thoughts of protecting someone else (like another child), some may do things that ordinarily wouldn't make much sense. It doesn't mean that they are a sociopath/ psychopath/ cold/ callous. Just panicked and not thinking right. And then when once the lie starts it gets very, very difficult to come out later and tell the truth - especially knowing that it would bring the judgement and wrath of millions of people.

***Speculation only***

 

[GTaurus""]

This touched my heart when I read it.

October 8, 2020

"A recording of William’s sister, who is now 10, was played to the court.

“I hope this speech makes you solve the case,” she said in the recording, clearly and confidently.

“If it doesn’t, when I’m officially an adult I’ll be in the police force, a detective specifically, and I will find my brother and won’t give up until he’s found.”

She described William as only an older sister can: “a loving, kind, sweet boy who was annoying at times”.

“But the day he disappeared we lost everything,” she said. “We lost my innocent brother.”

“He now needs to be found so please help our family but most of all help me find our precious William.”

Sister of missing William vows to find him

After reading this, I find it hard to believe that Williams sister wrote these words. I am not discounting her feelings but some of the words seem, IMO, similar to wording used by the FFC. The more I listen to the FFC in interviews and have read in their appeals and posts, the more she comes across as needing to control the narrative. JMOO

 

[Awakening]

It would also make more sense to me if FFC had waved down the truck driver to ask if he had seen William. IMO

Good point.

Especially if she was concerned about William wandering into traffic - which I think she said was the reason she drove out there, in case he had,

You'd expect that if she had the truck drivers attention already (he thanked her) she'd wave him down, ask him if he'd seen a little boy or to look out for one.

 

[JBowie]

After reading this, I find it hard to believe that Williams sister wrote these words. I am not discounting her feelings but some of the words seem, IMO, similar to wording used by the FFC. The more I listen to the FFC in interviews and have read in their appeals and posts, the more she comes across as needing to control the narrative. JMOO

Yes, let's see how that jibes when the AVO/assault charges are dealt with.

 

[Gotta have Faith]

After reading this, I find it hard to believe that Williams sister wrote these words. I am not discounting her feelings but some of the words seem, IMO, similar to wording used by the FFC. The more I listen to the FFC in interviews and have read in their appeals and posts, the more she comes across as needing to control the narrative. JMOO

Laidlaw at the inquest when the sister was giving evidence was shaking his head taking down notes. There was a poster upthread who said while the sister was giving testimony it was believed FM was in the background coaching her.

 

[DDDddd]

FFC took the kids downstairs and set them up on the deck. Then "FFC and FD joined them and they played a game using dice". I thought it was between these 2 times that the tea was made. Apologies if this incorrect.

You're going to have to help me out here. I only joined this case last Wednesday so I'm obviously not up to speed with everything. I haven't seen a photo of the gate to the verandah. Are you saying that you can only get to the downstairs deck via the upstairs verandah? If all 4 were downstairs, why couldn't he run to the front of the house very quickly?

These photos show the proximity of the back deck to the verandah. Both are accessed by 2 stairs. The verandah wraps around the side and front of the house and with the ground slope becomes very high off the ground.

The graphic was from back in 2014 when the story was that FFC went inside to make a cup of tea when he disappeared. I drew a red circle around the verandah entrance.

 

[Oona]

These quotes are excerpts from an interview with a Police media spokesperson in 2015.
IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure

"Police: It’s a tough question, but when did you first suspect abduction?

FM: In my mind it was immediate, because there was no way in the world William would have gone into that bush, it’s too thick, there’s lantana all through it. There is no way in the world he would have gone into that bush.


Police: Being a cautious boy he would have thought twice?
FM: It was in my head and even Mum, while I was talking with Mum while we were waiting and I was doing the frantic thing and running through the house and opening up cupboards and all sorts of stuff, I just kept going through my head, somebody’s taken him, I can’t, in my mind it was the only logical explanation for what could have happened."

I am curious about "while we were waiting"...waiting for what/who. I thought FM had searched the house/cupboards early on, before searching along the street.

Also I would be more inclined to think a three year old had gone exploring in the street or bush before suspecting they had been abducted. In my experience, three year olds are very impulsive and fearless. William may have been a cautious child but he was described as very energetic and excited that morning.

 

[JBowie]

Laidlaw at the inquest when the sister was giving evidence was shaking his head taking down notes. There was a poster upthread who said while the sister was giving testimony it was believed FM was in the background coaching her.

My bolding. Yes, I read that, too, but when that sort of thing occurs during testimony in court the prosecution/defense barrister is likely call it out to the judge.

Granted coronial inquests are not the same as regular court but counsel assisting is there to help the coroner get truthful testimony.

 

[Estelle]

Not publishing the names and faces of foster parents is understandable in terms of protection of foster children, however it also keeps the public in the dark at the very time the police are asking the public to come forward with anything they may feel is relevant.

I can imagine a hypothetical circumstance where a member of the public seeing their face in the media might say, "Gee, he/she looks a lot like that person who I noticed belting a little kid in the shopping centre car park a few months ago. Better ring Crime Stoppers and let them know."

Does anyone know what the justification for the FPs still having anonymity could be?

 

[DDDddd]

Laidlaw at the inquest when the sister was giving evidence was shaking his head taking down notes. There was a poster upthread who said while the sister was giving testimony it was believed FM was in the background coaching her.

I find the shaking of his head so interesting! Not even a micro expression, it's like he couldn't hold in his contempt or incredulity for what he was hearing.

 

[they'll get you]

How a no-nonsense 'old school' detective has turned the William Tyrrell investigation on its head - and he's cracked some of Australia's toughest cases

William Tyrrell investigation led by detective David Laidlaw in Kendall | Daily Mail Online

I’m over the chest beating.