Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #61

[Oona]

Depends on what size truck it was, takes a loooong time to pull those suckers up !/ Especially if it is an 18 wheeler and by the time he saw the boy - no chance of pulling up without a lot tyres squealing. A small delivery truck would have no problems pulling up

Unfortunately it would be hard for the truck driver to know what they might have witnessed as the foster family have not been publicly identified.

 

[Milisi]

see, for me, if I thought my husband would be home any time and my mother was there at the house, I would search as much as I could (even using the car) whilst waiting for him. He was expected within a few minutes, so it could be assumed she would see him up (the FF) the road as she drove up searching

*I wouldn't call him if I thought he'd be back any minute

(posted this upthread, wasn’t sure if it had posted, but replying again here…)
I always call my husband first in any situation e.g computer problems at work, call him before the I.T guy. Trouble with car, ring him before the mobile mechanics. Trouble picking up kids, call him before mother, in fact just in any imaginable circumstance he is my go to person. In every thing. Definitely if I couldn’t find my child I would call him before 000. The only thing I would concede in her actions would be if phone reception was an issue, but if she could get through to 000 I would expect she would also be able to get through to him. IMO

 

[Gotta have Faith]

Ep. 1 (part 2) from the Where's William podcast

As the family was going to visit the MFGF’s gravesite that afternoon, they decided to do some drawings for him. FFC took them outside onto the patio and set them up on the decking* with paper, pencils and crayons. The kids got some leaves from the garden to use in their drawings.

[* Natarsha then incorrectly refers to it as the verandah. Big difference. The verandah is about 15’ off the ground].

The last photos of WT wearing his Spiderman outfit were taken on the decking.

WT then continued playing while his nanna watched. FFC and FD joined them and they played a game using dice. WT then jumped off the side of the patio onto the grass and started playing Daddy Tiger. FFC talked about this in her police statement. He pretended to be Daddy Tiger. He wanted FD to play but she continued drawing. He crawled around on the ground for a bit, playing tiger. He walked around the side of the house. I told him to make sure he stays close on the grass. I heard ‘roar’. It sounded really close and loud, like he was just around the corner. Mum and I laughed and we spoke to FD. After a couple of minutes, I thought ‘Oh, he’s quiet’.

At the time when this is happening, FD is there, FFC, WT and FFGM were there. FFGB was sitting on the patio having a cup of tea, so she recounts that moment in her statement to police as well. William lost interest in drawing pictures and rolling the dice and he ran down the two small stairs of the back patio onto the grass, and he ran around the right-hand side of the house. About 5 minutes had passed and FFC said, “Mum, he’s a little bit quiet”.

FFC got up from the patio when she realised that he was quiet. She walked around the corner, looking out onto that grassed area, expecting to see him playing there where he was supposed to be playing but she couldn’t see him. I think back to that moment where I just went, “I can’t hear him. Why, why can’t I hear him?” and I walked around, because it was just 2m, 3m away from where we were sitting, and I just walked out and I just see nothing. I see nothing. I hear nothing. I’m anxious. I’m walking around in a circle on the spot thinking “Where is he? Why can’t I see him?”, and I’m yelling out, “William, where are you? You need to talk to mummy. Tell me where you are. I can’t see you. I can’t hear you. Where are you? And he was nowhere and I just, and I’m just standing there thinking, “How could he just disappear?”

In light of the above, I can’t understand how the police or anyone else thought he fell 15’ from the verandah because he couldn’t – he was on the ground. If he went around the corner from the rear deck area, in one minute or less he’d be out the front of the house. Someone posted earlier that there were fences, but there don’t appear to be any.

View attachment 322998 View attachment 322999 View attachment 323000 View attachment 323001 View attachment 323002

The day William Tyrrell vanished - NZ Herald
Could William Tyrrell case finally be solved?
Is this the escape route taken by missing William Tyrrell’s abductors

She is thinking all those thoughts in a very short space of time? In that time frame if it was me all I would be thinking is where the eff are you?? I wouldn't have time to think of anything else or even remember what I was thinking,,,,,,,,,My legs would be engaged not my brain......I would be motoring down the way I thought he went......

 

[JBowie]

I just watched this special from the ABC that details what Bill Spedding was put through. His grandchildren were taken away from him. Lost his business. He has to live with the stigma his arrest put on him. Starting his life over again in retirement age. And that awful woman (whose identity was concealed unlike Spedding's) who walked up to his new home with no repercussions for her harassment. Shocking. Disgusting. All his wife asks for is an apology.

This 4 Corners episode ought to become a training video for cops everywhere showing how not to carry out investigations.

I'm not referring to interrogation procedure, but rather their incredible incompetence in relation to seeking/recognizing corroborating evidence when it was right in front of their faces. The detective [Moynihan *] who told Spedding to never contact him again ought to be demoted to parking cop for that alone.

This is a classic example of confirmation bias on the part of the police involved.

It's obvious that the cops initially assigned to the case were out of their depth, but IMO Jubelin has a lot to answer for, too.

Lately he's been talking about what he considers lazy police practice. Methinks he needs to look in the mirror on that score.

* Footnote:

A seasoned homicide detective could be sacked after an internal investigation found he had sex in his unmarked police car while he was on duty, took photos of his genitalia in the office and pretended to be at work when he wasn’t.

Over the course of Detective Sergeant Justin Moynihan’s career, he has played a leading role in some high profile investigations, including the case of missing toddler William Tyrrell. (Nov 10, 2019 - 6:24AM The Sunday Telegraph)

 

[Nessie]

(posted this upthread, wasn’t sure if it had posted, but replying again here…)
I always call my husband first in any situation e.g computer problems at work, call him before the I.T guy. Trouble with car, ring him before the mobile mechanics. Trouble picking up kids, call him before mother, in fact just in any imaginable circumstance he is my go to person. In every thing. Definitely if I couldn’t find my child I would call him before 000. The only thing I would concede in her actions would be if phone reception was an issue, but if she could get through to 000 I would expect she would also be able to get through to him. IMO

Hard to know exactly what you’d do but I think I’d probably call in order to ask him to keep an eye out while driving home.

 

[TickettyBoo]

I'm more of a lurker than a poster but I've followed this on and off since the beginning.

What are the chances that the new witness/evidence has came from the "family friend" the house was sold to? Or from the workmen who laid the new driveway. Someone had said that its not unusual for a body to be moved more than once.
its probably a stretch but what if the ground was disturbed after being prepped for the concrete but was maybe initially thought to be from an animal digging.
They do seem very focused on finding something at the house

 

[Chestnutsunfish]

If he fell from a balcony, why would she not call an ambulance, but would instead, secretly, coldly, stash his body in her mother's car trunk?

I am trying to understand that decision. I don't think she would have lost her daughter, even if he had been severely injured or had died, from an accidental fall. Accidents like that happen all the time, especially when a child is at a relatives home, and not in a familiar, child proofed location.

It would have been a horrible tragic accident. It is hard for me to accept that she made that instantaneous decision and acted so cold and callous in the aftermath.

Is she an evil, heartless sociopath? I guess maybe if this new development is correct.

I have thought the same and only logical reasons that come to mind for myself if the balcony fall and cover up are correct are:

- Fear of removal of the other child in their care

- Shame around the way that this will appear to others and damage their reputation

- Reporting this accident would have resulted in an autopsy, perhaps bringing to light other abuse that WT had been subjected to.

JMO

Would love to hear other peoples theories!

 

[Trmtrm2]

I know alot of people are saying there wasn't enough time to cover up an accident, I think its more possibly that it was planned, maby the FGM was told that it was an accident and cover up thats why word of accident eventually got out, but im thinking that because of everything with the adoption process this could of been a planned disappearance to gain adoption of the sister so the siblings are no longer bound to each other in the foster placement system, the foster family always wanted someone to be prosecuted because possibly they were not able to proceed with adoption of the sister while the brother in their care was missing, they clame WT would never wander so its obvious they are suggesting an abduction especially with the later statement of cars, just say a random paedophile was to be charged whether convicted or not possibly the adoption could of proceeded, im surprised they were able to keep the sister with the brother missing in their care, maby they used lawyers to fight the department to keep the sister in their care but was told the department won't hand over an adoption until WT is found and their names cleared of any involvement

 

[k-mac]

The thing with time lines, Every time something is trying to be covered up, times and numbers are fudged. Always

Fake alibi's are always brought forward to a shorter window. Always

The truth is the truth is the truth.

You can't make a square peg fit in a round hole.

The fosters need not fear the truth if they are telling it.

moo

 

[Spiralscientist]

Yeah, I feel the same - lots of answers to questions that could result from the original question. I am curious as to what she does for a living. Someone in mannnny threads previously said that FM worked in the area of computers or technology? this would need fact checking. being able to think of all the possibilities arising from a mere question means someone that is used to having to 'think on their feet' and be able to rationalise and justify their every decision or thought. even without provocation...JMO IMO MOO (possibly - this line of thought is merely reflecting on ways of answering questions)

It might be personality related. I also give way too much detail when asked questions. I think it is because I am extremely observant so I need to sift through all of the sensory details in my head when I am working out the answer.
Investigators that question a lot of people would probably know whether there is a personality type that also does this, even when they are not lying.

 

[Nessie]

“I’m thinking bugs….when they played the recording of LT in the coronial enquire, Laidlaw shook his head and took notes. Maybe he had heard FM coaching LT on what to say?”

just saw this comment on one of the FB pages….was anyone there who saw that?

 

[Awakening]

On the news tonight they explained that the search area is on both sides of Battar Creek Rd in a small, very specific radius. To me that means that technology pinpoints that car in that location.

I wonder if that's where she was seen by the truck driver?

 

[Monsoon]

On the news tonight they explained that the search area is on both sides of Battar Creek Rd in a small, very specific radius. To me that means that technology pinpoints that car in that location.

And/or maybe something was found washed downstream from that creek that goes under the road there. If it was a bone, DNA tested positive for WT, it makes more sense of the certainty that he will be found in that area. (Although- wouldnt they make that sort of thing public straight away?) I think there was a bit of emphasis on the hydrology expert and their knowledge of how things moved downstream.

 

[Gotta have Faith]

I have thought the same and only logical reasons that come to mind for myself if the balcony fall and cover up are correct are:

- Fear of removal of the other child in their care

- Shame around the way that this will appear to others and damage their reputation

- Reporting this accident would have resulted in an autopsy, perhaps bringing to light other abuse that WT had been subjected to.

JMO

Would love to hear other peoples theories!

Fear of jail time?

 

[Tigerlily75]

You're right. FM appears to do a lot of preempting.

Same with her walk thru where she says a "truck driver thanked her for pulling over, but she wasn't pulled over she had her head out the window looking for William. He thought I was pulled over but I wasn't".

RSBM

You know, I knew of this story, but for some reason, reading it like that … made me feel a bit sick.

Do we know exactly where this was, and did they ever find the truck driver?

 

[Trmtrm2]

How dangerous of the department to hav left the sister in the care of thies people who took their eyes off the brother and he was never seen again, especially the fact its always possible that they could of been invited because no one else has ever been convicted, now the sister has bruising and its both FM and FF being charged and restraining order, I wonder if the real family can sue the department for failure to keep the sister safe after the brother disappeared, even if thies people are not involved the department should of cancelled their foster carer status just to protect the department from any law suits in the future and removed the sisters

 

[DDDddd]

I have thought the same and only logical reasons that come to mind for myself if the balcony fall and cover up are correct are:

- Fear of removal of the other child in their care

- Shame around the way that this will appear to others and damage their reputation

- Reporting this accident would have resulted in an autopsy, perhaps bringing to light other abuse that WT had been subjected to.

JMO

Would love to hear other peoples theories!

Don't forget, there are at least three trauma responses (fight, flight and freeze). Not everyone would scream.

 

[Gotta have Faith]

“when they played the recording of LT in the coronial enquire, Laidlaw shook his head and took notes. Maybe he had heard FM coaching LT on what to say?”

just saw this comment on one of the FB pages….was anyone there who saw that?

IF this is true, I suspect Laidlaw was biding his time to get the sister away from the FP to ask questions and not have the FP run interference

 

[JudgeJudi]

Your premise only works if he was out of sight for less than 60 seconds. FFC stated she saw William, went inside and made a cup of tea and was on the deck with FFGM and LT drinking tea; that is 3-5 minutes minimum. And the entry to the verandah is metres from the deck. It's not confirmed whether or not the gate to the verandah was open or shut. Earlier photos from the case show it open.

FFC took the kids downstairs and set them up on the deck. Then "FFC and FD joined them and they played a game using dice". I thought it was between these 2 times that the tea was made. Apologies if this incorrect.

You're going to have to help me out here. I only joined this case last Wednesday so I'm obviously not up to speed with everything. I haven't seen a photo of the gate to the verandah. Are you saying that you can only get to the downstairs deck via the upstairs verandah? If all 4 were downstairs, why couldn't he run to the front of the house very quickly?

 

[Spiralscientist]

I have thought the same and only logical reasons that come to mind for myself if the balcony fall and cover up are correct are:

- Fear of removal of the other child in their care

- Shame around the way that this will appear to others and damage their reputation

- Reporting this accident would have resulted in an autopsy, perhaps bringing to light other abuse that WT had been subjected to.

JMO

Would love to hear other peoples theories!

Yes I think similar things. I have also wondered whether if a child that was not your own (as in this case) fell due to an issue with the house, such as the balcony not being compliant, could there be legal action from the biological parents, or the state. I don't know the legal side of that.