Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #64

[katydid23]

That the voices of foster children should be prioritised? Do you disagree?

I don't disagree. That was my original point.

I said at the beginning, that many people had negative feelings about fosterers and adopters. And people resounded by saying NO, no one ever says anything negative about them, they are noble and wonderful...

And I disagreed and said that has not been my experience at all....and I am not saying their negativity is invalid. I am just saying it exists.

 

[JayWill]

And yet Gary Jubelin was investigating the possibility that HS had accidently hit William with her car or he had climbed into their pool.

Did FGM have a pool? I haven't heard that before. And he only investigated them when urged to by other members of his team. MOO.

 

[organised_chaos]

I am having a realllly tough time finding the most recent statistics - I will look further tomorrow. But, this is the best I could find from 2015 - 'hundreds' of children have been abused by foster carers (emotional, sexual, physical) from 40 000+ foster care placements in Australia. I will find something much more recent and share with you when I find it. The second article (below) is the process of removing a child in Australia into the care of foster parents (2019-2020). During 2018–19, 170,200 (30 per 1,000) Australian children received child protection services (investigation, care and protection order and/or were in out-of-home care). Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children were 8 times as likely as non-Indigenous children to have received child protection services. Children from geographically remote areas were more likely to be the subject of a substantiation, or be in out-of-home care than those from major cities. Over 3,700 children were reunified with family during 2018–19. I cannot see any statistics outlining abuse by foster carers for 2018-2019. I will keep searching

In 2019–20, about 174,700 children aged 0–17 received child protection services. These include investigations (which may or may not lead to substantiated cases of child abuse or neglect), care and protection orders and/or out-of-home care placements. This equates to a rate of 31 per 1,000 children. More than half (57%) of these children were the subject of an investigation only and were not subsequently placed on a care and protection order or in out-of-home care. A small proportion (7.2%) were involved in all 3 components of the system. That is the third report below -

Hundreds of children in care abused last year, report finds

https://apo.org.au/sites/default/files/resource-files/2021-05/apo-nid312307.pdf

Child protection - Australian Institute of Health and Welfare

 

[Eloise]

Who is HS? I have never heard of that before. Do you have a link please?

PS's wife

 

[ozazure]

I really don't understand the child welfare system. As a mandatory reporter I now feel so jaded about making reports that only bring more grief down on a child as so little is done as a result, it just alerts parents to instill more fear about disclosure.

And yet here's William's mother who has managed to retain custody of two subsequent kids. At some point it seems LT should have gone home to her if she was parenting adequately. The foster home, if appropriate, would be available for another child in need. But no - they lose William, the ultimate worst outcome, and yet maintain guardianship of his sister. It makes no sense. And now years later there's an AVO to protect her, it's so sad.

I really can't get my head around a scenario that involves the foster parents aside from negligence in supervision but I am completely convinced their wealth and influence from the time they decided to foster "because they always wanted to", until recent times, has played a very large role in William's story.

I honestly expected them to divulge infertility or waiting too long to have kids as the impetus for fostering but there wasn't even that chink in the armour exposed on the podcast. They wanted the kudos for fostering versus admitting the kid's challenging family situation allowed them to have a family, that they were the ultimate beneficiaries.

 

[BreakingNews]

Let's get back to William. I am more confused than ever over NSW LE. Seems like now they don't have a poi??? And are doing what the Coroner has requested they do. But ultimately the Coroner doesn't make arrests, the police have to. In MOO NSW police don't really have any new leads of their own. Only doing what they should have done from the get go to please Coroner. Egos aside, for Williams sake!

 

[Blues Clues]

Who is HS? I have never heard of that before. Do you have a link please?

"The inquest heard Mr Savage's late wife, Heather, had left for bingo at 10.37am on that day."

Tyrrell neighbour faced damaging questions | Port Stephens Examiner | Nelson Bay, NSW

 

[centred]

OMG LOL!!! I’m sure he’d agree

LOL

The originator actually said "A BIG toe in one black suit " to give a factual account of the quip , I wish I hadn't seen it now because I do not think toes are sexy let alone Big toes and yes it is hard to see him without seeing a Toe . I suppose i must still have a soft spot for GJ and I do hope he isnt unduly harmed TBH

 

[Estelle]

PS's wife

From the link above: A former homicide detective (Gary Jubelin) who led the investigation into William Tyrrell's disappearance hypothesised during a police interview that the three-year-old may have been killed accidentally by a neighbour's wife who has since died.

It is so easy to blame a person for a crime once they are dead and cannot defend themselves. Jubes must have been desperate.

Where was the pool?

 

[Blues Clues]

Did FGM have a pool? I haven't heard that before. And he only investigated them when urged to by other members of his team. MOO.

No she didn't.

"Paul Savage, had a drained, dry-floor, tin-roof covered, empty pool on his property"

Caroline Overington on Twitter: "Today's evidence is that a neighbour, Paul Savage, had a drained, dry-floor, tin-roof covered, empty pool on his property the day William Tyrrell went missing. https://t.co/S321pM6mSK" / Twitter

 

[katydid23]

That the voices of foster children should be prioritised? Do you disagree?

But let me add one thing---as an adoptive mom with grown kids and grandkids....

I spent a lot of years on an Adoption Triad forum, with input from children and birth parents and foster/adoptive parents coming forth with their stories, feelings and experiences.

And I have learned that we cannot take everything each person says as total gospel until years later....for example, some adoptive parents in open adoptions dislike having so much communication with the birth parents and they grow to regret it AT FIRST----but years later they will come to appreciate it and see how important it was for their child. I saw that happen a lot.

And the same for the children. Sometimes kids come out of foster care and have negative reports and feelings about their life there. But a few years later they sometimes reevaluate, and begin to see things in a different way. Sometimes they were reacting as emotional teens react and not seeing some things objectively. And later they would come to the forum to update and say they changed their initial reactions as they matured...

So of course they should be prioritised but it is also important to understand that things are complex and emotionally charged sometimes, and just like ANY teen, they go through anger and resentment towards their parents.

For example, the foster child who reported that she was left behind during holidays with the grandparents. That is awful and so insensitive. Yet I would want to hear the other sides explanation. Was there a family tension and the birth kids felt the foster kids got all of the attention and there was hurt feelings there? IDK but it might be important to look at the big picture there too...

It is somewhat like having a blended family and all the difficulties that can come with that.

 

[winterberry]

From the link above: A former homicide detective (Gary Jubelin) who led the investigation into William Tyrrell's disappearance hypothesised during a police interview that the three-year-old may have been killed accidentally by a neighbour's wife who has since died.

It is so easy to blame a person for a crime once they are dead and cannot defend themselves. Jubes must have been desperate.

Where was the pool?

These people were cleared, are we allowed to talk about them on the forum if they are not POI?

 

[Jaded325594]

I am having a realllly tough time finding the most recent statistics - I will look further tomorrow. But, this is the best I could find from 2015 - 'hundreds' of children have been abused by foster carers (emotional, sexual, physical) from 40 000+ foster care placements in Australia. I will find something much more recent and share with you when I find it. The second article (below) is the process of removing a child in Australia into the care of foster parents (2019-2020). During 2018–19, 170,200 (30 per 1,000) Australian children received child protection services (investigation, care and protection order and/or were in out-of-home care). Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children were 8 times as likely as non-Indigenous children to have received child protection services. Children from geographically remote areas were more likely to be the subject of a substantiation, or be in out-of-home care than those from major cities. Over 3,700 children were reunified with family during 2018–19. I cannot see any statistics outlining abuse by foster carers for 2018-2019. I will keep searching

In 2019–20, about 174,700 children aged 0–17 received child protection services. These include investigations (which may or may not lead to substantiated cases of child abuse or neglect), care and protection orders and/or out-of-home care placements. This equates to a rate of 31 per 1,000 children. More than half (57%) of these children were the subject of an investigation only and were not subsequently placed on a care and protection order or in out-of-home care. A small proportion (7.2%) were involved in all 3 components of the system. That is the third report below -

Hundreds of children in care abused last year, report finds

https://apo.org.au/sites/default/files/resource-files/2021-05/apo-nid312307.pdf

Child protection - Australian Institute of Health and Welfare

Yeah i have had a hard time finding stats too, in Australia anyway. Suppression? I do believe any available stats would be heavily underreported though.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

LOL

The originator actually said "A BIG toe in one black suit " to give a factual account of the quip , I wish I hadn't seen it now because I do not think toes are sexy let alone Big toes and yes it is hard to see him without seeing a Toe . I suppose i must still have a soft spot for GJ and I do hope he isnt unduly harmed TBH

HAHA that’s even better

 

[JayWill]

@JayWill - just reposting my question in case you missed it.

No, I did not miss it.

 

[organised_chaos]

Yeah i have had a hard time finding stats too, in Australia anyway. Suppression? I do believe any available stats would be heavily underreported though.

could be suppression? but AIHW are a reporting body (and not biased or swayed by others) and there should be something on their site. I just haven't dug deep enough as kids and dinner rush lol. If you find something there - let me know!

Home - Australian Institute of Health and Welfare

 

[katydid23]

From the link above: A former homicide detective (Gary Jubelin) who led the investigation into William Tyrrell's disappearance hypothesised during a police interview that the three-year-old may have been killed accidentally by a neighbour's wife who has since died.

It is so easy to blame a person for a crime once they are dead and cannot defend themselves. Jubes must have been desperate.

Where was the pool?

I think that is a reasonable scenario he brought forth, since the pool was drained that day, I believe. Odd coincidence, right across the road, for sure.

 

[k-mac]

And yet Gary Jubelin was investigating the possibility that HS had accidently hit William with her car or he had climbed into their pool.

IMO GJ ticked all the boxes surface level.
Now we are getting to see some nuts and bolts and seeing how little was actually investigated...till now.

moo

 

[Estelle]

These people were cleared, are we allowed to talk about them on the forum if they are not POI?

I was simply wondering who HS was and found that link after someone told me who she was. It was in the MSM also.

 

[Jaded325594]

I don't disagree. That was my original point.

I said at the beginning, that many people had negative feelings about fosterers and adopters. And people resounded by saying NO, no one ever says anything negative about them, they are noble and wonderful...

And I disagreed and said that has not been my experience at all....and I am not saying their negativity is invalid. I am just saying it exists.

Oh ok

My issue is more around the whole system more broadly rather than individual carers. I take my hat off to carers who selflessly dedicate their time to making a difference to kids lives whilst also understanding and advocating for change.

There is a minority who do it for the money and are probably the ones who end up resenting and hurting kids.

A smaller minoroty who are sick in the head and seek access to vulnerable kids.

Others who see themselves as "saviours", not understanding the importance of maintaining family connections and strengthening families to proactively prevent removals. They're probably the ones who kick kids out at 18 for not being grateful enough.

These are purely my observations only from knowing kids in the system and reading stories online (royal commission etc).

Australia has a dark history with child removals, some interesting reading if you're interested and might explain some of the policy differences. x