Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #77

[Couldbe]

Is it possible that the Inquest in William’s Death is going to re -open because the ODPP have rejected the charges submitted by the NSW Police????


MOO - A Question

That might be the case; I was taking an optimistic view .. thinking that to charge FM with 'interfering with a corpse', the Coroner first needs to declare William deceased. I am thinking that the bone fragment (Big dig) and (William's DNA) will be submitted as evidence. MOO

 

[SLouTh]

That might be the case; I was taking an optimistic view .. thinking that to charge FM with 'interfering with a corpse', the Coroner first needs to declare William deceased. I am thinking that the bone fragment (Big dig) and (William's DNA) will be submitted as evidence. MOO

Excellent point!!

 

[Chrissy74]

There is also an official definition for NSW Coroner‘s Court

Open findings​

An “open finding” refers to the situation where a coroner is unable to make a finding due to insufficiency of evidence. Open findings will often be made where a person’s remains are decomposed. In such cases, the coroner will make findings on each of the statutory criteria for which they can be made, while those remaining are left open.

Open findings, in particular as to cause and manner of death, are also common in inquests in relation to missing persons.

Coronial matters

www.judcom.nsw.gov.au

Let’s not forget about L and what information/evidence she has provided. Would love to see L claim the million dollar reward

 

[SouthAussie]

That might be the case; I was taking an optimistic view .. thinking that to charge FM with 'interfering with a corpse', the Coroner first needs to declare William deceased. I am thinking that the bone fragment (Big dig) and (William's DNA) will be submitted as evidence. MOO

If the police had a bone fragment belonging to William, that would be enough forensic evidence in a court of law to prove his death. I can't see that they would need the Coroner to rule on that, if their potential charges are otherwise sound.

 

[SLouTh]

If the police had a bone fragment belonging to William, that would be enough forensic evidence in a court of law to prove his death. I can't see that they would need the Coroner to rule on that, if their potential charges are otherwise sound.

Would the regular legal process still be the same, with an inquest still being open???

Or because the inquest is still technically “ongoing /open”, they have to follow a different legal pathway???

I don’t know enough about the law to know the answer….





Edit to add:

Does anyone know or remember when the Coroner in Daniel Morcombe’s case declared that Daniel was deceased?? Before or after Cowan was charged????

That decision may assist us in knowing the legal process for possible charges, with an inquest being open.

IMO

 

[LolaAngelina]

Let’s not forget about L and what information/evidence she has provided. Would love to see L claim the million dollar reward

What evidence has she provided in regards to William’s case?

 

[LolaAngelina]

That might be the case; I was taking an optimistic view .. thinking that to charge FM with 'interfering with a corpse', the Coroner first needs to declare William deceased. I am thinking that the bone fragment (Big dig) and (William's DNA) will be submitted as evidence. MOO

There’s absolutely zero chance that the police wouldn’t have announced it if it was Williams bone.

 

[JLZ]

That might be the case; I was taking an optimistic view .. thinking that to charge FM with 'interfering with a corpse', the Coroner first needs to declare William deceased. I am thinking that the bone fragment (Big dig) and (William's DNA) will be submitted as evidence. MOO

No. The inquest resuming means police have taken their investigation as far as it can go under the present circumstances. The investigation precedes the inquest.

I'd like to have a more explicit link, but this is the best I've got:

If the examination determines the cause of death was not natural, a police investigation will follow.
After reviewing evidence from police and all other evidence, the Coroner will decide if an inquest is needed. If no inquest is required, then the Coronial process is complete and the family can proceed with funeral arrangements.

Overview of the Coronial process

Overview of the Coronial process

coroners.nsw.gov.au

 

[JLZ]

Would the regular legal process still be the same, with an inquest still being open???

Or because the inquest is still technically “ongoing /open”, they have to follow a different legal pathway???

I don’t know enough about the law to know the answer….





Edit to add:

Does anyone know or remember when the Coroner in Daniel Morcombe’s case declared that Daniel was deceased?? Before or after Cowan was charged????

That decision may assist us in knowing the legal process for possible charges, with an inquest being open.

IMO

The final hearings for Daniel's inquest were in 2016, and the outcome delivered in 2019. Cowan was convicted in 2014.

 

[Warshawski]

That might be the case; I was taking an optimistic view .. thinking that to charge FM with 'interfering with a corpse', the Coroner first needs to declare William deceased. I am thinking that the bone fragment (Big dig) and (William's DNA) will be submitted as evidence. MOO

I would agree with you Couldbe.

This hearing is billed as an Inquest into the DEATH of William - imo they must be sure that he is deceased, otherwise it would say ‘suspected death’.

I found this interesting & along the lines of what I was thinking :

When a Coroner undertakes an inquest what can happen as a result?

The Coroner's Court also has the power of arrest, the power to administer oaths, and the power to sequester juries of six people during inquests. A Coroner's Court may also: Authorise a police officer or other person to enter any place and gather evidence, similar to a search warrant.9 Nov 2021

When Can a Coronial Inquest Be Held in New South Wales?​

 

[Awakening]

I would agree with you Couldbe.

This hearing is billed as an Inquest into the DEATH of William - imo they must be sure that he is deceased, otherwise it would say ‘suspected death’.

I found this interesting & along the lines of what I was thinking :

When a Coroner undertakes an inquest what can happen as a result?

The Coroner's Court also has the power of arrest, the power to administer oaths, and the power to sequester juries of six people during inquests. A Coroner's Court may also: Authorise a police officer or other person to enter any place and gather evidence, similar to a search warrant.9 Nov 2021

When Can a Coronial Inquest Be Held in New South Wales?​

I found this interesting.

“Once a finding has been made, the Coroner can:

Make recommendations to Government ministers/departments

The Coroner may make recommendations to government agencies with the intention of improving public health and safety.

Refer to the DPP if a known person may have committed an indictable offence

The Coroner does not have the power to find someone guilty of a crime.

Yet, the Coroner may refer the matter to the DPP if, at some time throughout the proceeding, the Coroner forms the opinion that a known person has committed an indictable offence in connection with the death.

In such cases, the Coroner must suspend the inquest. It is then a matter for the DPP to decide whether charges will be brought against the person.”

https://www.ruleoflaw.org.au/wp-content/uploads/The-Coroners-Court-Inquests-and-Inquiries-.pdf

Is this an attempt to put further pressure on the DPP to act?

 

[SouthAussie]

Is this an attempt to put further pressure on the DPP to act?

I wouldn't think so. A Coroner is a Magistrate. And a magistrate is supposed to be fair and impartial. Not work in concert with the police to pressure anyone, if that is what you mean.

For all we know, Harriet may announce that she is going to hand down her findings. William has been missing for more than the usual '7 year presumption of death'.

It seems unusual that MSM didn't get a sniff that the Directions Hearing was going to be scheduled.


Coroners in NSW are also Magistrates of the Local Court. Link

A person may be presumed dead if no one has seen or heard from them in seven years, and there is no evidence to the contrary. Link

 

[SLouTh]

It seems unusual that MSM didn't get a sniff that the Directions Hearing was going to be scheduled.

Yes agree……

I am also wondering if it is also unusual for a Directions Hearing to be called at this stage of the investigation???

My understanding is that an Inquest has to remain suspended while the ODPP are considering charges.

Is the Directions Hearing to inform all concerned parties, that the Inquest remains suspended, including the public?



If the Coroner herself signed off on the Brief of Evidence Recommending Charges to the ODPP then NSW legislation says this:

The protocol provides that the ODPP will make a determination within six months following receipt of the referral from the Coroner’s Court, subject to any requisitions for further material raised by the ODPP.

However if the NSW Police submitted the brief, I don’t think this rule applies . IMO

If the Directions Hearing is to advise an Inquest is re-opening or to advise the Coroner is handing her down her findings, then I suspect the ODPP has rejected the charges….

So in a nut shell, what I am trying to say, is that until the ODPP makes a decision, I think that the inquest has to remain suspended.

Coronial matters

www.judcom.nsw.gov.au

Section 44 - 120

 

[JLZ]

Yes agree……

I am also wondering if it is also unusual for a Directions Hearing to be called at this stage of the investigation???

My understanding is that an Inquest has to remain suspended while the ODPP are considering charges.

Is the Directions Hearing to inform all concerned parties, that the Inquest remains suspended, including the public?



If the Coroner herself signed off on the Brief of Evidence Recommending Charges to the ODPP then NSW legislation says this:

The protocol provides that the ODPP will make a determination within six months following receipt of the referral from the Coroner’s Court, subject to any requisitions for further material raised by the ODPP.

However if the NSW Police submitted the brief, I don’t think this rule applies . IMO

If the Directions Hearing is to advise an Inquest is re-opening or to advise the Coroner is handing her down her findings, then I suspect the ODPP has rejected the charges….

So in a nut shell, what I am trying to say, is that until the ODPP makes a decision, I think that the inquest has to remain suspended.

Coronial matters

www.judcom.nsw.gov.au

Section 44 - 120

I think the ODPP has made its decision (that FFC is not to be prosecuted) and interested parties have already been advised in writing that the inquest is proceeding. It's been a long time since the inquest was in progress so it's like starting again in terms of everyone's time commitments and representation arrangements. You don't want a tranche booked, court resources taken up and a hundred people inconvenienced, and then on the first day find it can't get started because one person didn't get organized. A directions hearing will minimize that chance. There might be other things to sort out as well, I don't know. But it won't be for the coroner to make a one-way announcement IMO.

 

[Awakening]

I’m interested in how this all works now!

We need an Australian legal expert on WS to explain it to people like me.

 

[SouthAussie]

If the Coroner herself signed off on the Brief of Evidence Recommending Charges to the ODPP then NSW legislation says this:

The protocol provides that the ODPP will make a determination within six months following receipt of the referral from the Coroner’s Court, subject to any requisitions for further material raised by the ODPP.

However if the NSW Police submitted the brief, I don’t think this rule applies . IMO

Here is a little more about this ^^^ from the Act.

Keep in mind that the referenced section 78(1)(b) is about a Coroner forming an opinion that a known person is responsible for the death.


If the coroner has suspended an inquest or inquiry after forming the opinion referred to in section 78(1)(b) (and a person has not been charged as referred to in subsection (3) in relation to an indictable offence), the suspended inquest or inquiry may not be resumed until the Attorney General, and Minister for the Prevention of Domestic Violence or the Director of Public Prosecutions advises that no proceedings will be taken against the known person (as referred to in section 78(1)(b)) in relation to the indictable offence.

(On page 54 of 97)

View - NSW legislation

legislation.nsw.gov.au

 

[SLouTh]

I think the ODPP has made its decision (that FFC is not to be prosecuted) and interested parties have already been advised in writing that the inquest is proceeding.

Yes…. Agree … Especially to call a Directions Hearing, as essentially the Inquest has been suspended since the last sitting.

If the Directions Hearing is to advise an Inquest is re-opening or to advise the Coroner is handing her down her findings, then I suspect the ODPP has rejected the charges….

BBM
I should have been more specific with this statement in my post …^^^^^^

I was reticent to suggest the ODPP had rejected the charges already, as I was unsure of usual timelines for such matters.

IMO

 

[JLZ]

Yes…. Agree … Especially to call a Directions Hearing, as essentially the Inquest has been suspended since the last sitting.


BBM
I should have been more specific with this statement in my post …^^^^^^

I was reticent to suggest the ODPP had rejected the charges already, as I was unsure of usual timelines for such matters.

IMO

These decisions can take weeks or even months and, during the process, the DPP may send requisitions to police for further material, further investigations and/or clarification on the materials received.

William Tyrell’s Disappearance: What Are the Proposed New Charges and Will the DPP Prosecute?

The toddler’s foster mother could soon be charged with perverting the course of justice and interfering with a corpse.

www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au

I feel like they've had enough time.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes…. Agree … Especially to call a Directions Hearing, as essentially the Inquest has been suspended since the last sitting.

I think the inquest was actually closed - not suspended - which doesn't mean it can't re-open, of course.

It was suspended in March 2020 due to covid, then officially closed in October 2020.

The inquest closed on Thursday and Deputy State Coroner Grahame will review more than 18 months of evidence before handing down her findings mid-way through next year.

The emotional gift that left William Tyrrell's inquest in tears

It was a poignant gift at the conclusion of an 18-month inquest into the disappearance of William Tyrrell that triggered tears from police, a former homicide detective, lawyers, reporters and those who loved the missing boy.

www.abc.net.au

 

[SLouTh]

I feel like they've had enough time.

IF this is the case, and the ODPP have rejected the charges, and the re-opening of William’s Inquest is announced on Friday…..

I wonder how the inquest will proceed??? Will they deliver reports of the searches, call any new witnesses, re call witnesses etc

Or if it will just be a case of the Coroner delivering her Findings and Recommendations ?

Will the public understand that a re opened inquest, means that the proposed charges have been taken off the table ??

I wonder how the media will report this on Friday??

And most importantly what it means for William’s case??


All IMO