Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #78

[drsleuth]

I mean, their evidence generally about his mental state conflicts with what the nursing home staff were saying. Was past history of meningitis presented as another reason he should not be believed?

Yes it does. Compared to care staff who were with him all day most hours of the day, who would have been accustomed to his speech, cognition etc. IMO

 

[SLouTh]

Just thinking about how many questions were asked about a boat & fishing, so many witnesses were asked these questions.

Why??

Was the Coroner / Craddock thinking William may have been disposed of by use of a boat??? In waters some distance away, and, only accessible by boat???? And that is why he hasn’t been found as yet??

IMO

 

[FromGermany1]

Just thinking about how many questions were asked about a boat & fishing, so many witnesses were asked these questions.

Why??

Just reading my notes from Thomas Porter ( RP's brother who had POA ) & his wife Irma Porter.

They were AVL witnesses & was clear that they didn't want to be there IMO


Witness TP
They live in QLD

RP & TP's father lived in Kendall later in his later life near the railway line.

RP spent alot of time on a rural station in Nth QLD

Craddock : At some point towed a caravan & boat to dad's house

TP : Yeah, bought back down late..

Craddock : Was RP a man who spent most of his time on his own - sort of a bit of a loner?

TP : Because of his health alot of people took advantage of him

Craddock : Easily influenced?

TP : Yes he was.

Craddock " Do you remember when he bought caravan & boat to Kendall?

TP : Can't remember, wife may remember..

Craddock : Down Kendall your dad & Ray both have tinnies?

TP : Yes

Craddock : Dad & RP both keen fisherman?

TP : Yes

Craddock : For sometime RP was in housing Commission in Wauchope?

TP : Yes

Craddock : Than moved to Nursing Home called Bethany @ Port Macquarie. Not satisfied & moved him to another nursing home Mingalatta in Port Macquarie.

Craddock : Did you have greater contact after moved to Mingalatta. Visited every couple of weeks or so?

TP : Yes both my wife & I would come down.


Craddock : Went to flat in Wauchope & got things he wanted to keep. From stat dec didn't know much about RP's life ( lived 400kms west Brisbane ) . You had POA. Found out RP had been harassed about certain things.

Craddock : You said bit of a loner, did Rp have one good friend?

TP : about police asking silly questions

Craddock Ask again did he have one good friend?

TP : no answer

Craddock : From your statement 26/2/2010. You siad I know Ray had one good friend by the name of Frank.

TP : Yes, I never met him, didn't know him.

Craddock : Did RP also tell you that FA sometimes took his car?

TP : No

Craddock : In statement paragraph 11 , " Ray also told me FA sometimes took his car"

TP : Yeah could be

Craddock : Another sentence from statement, " I know that at some stage light green / cream colour ford station wagon"

TP : I don't know what happened to it.

Craddock : He told you police spoke to him many times at Mingalatta.

TP : ( Went on a bout meningitis for awhile ) I was surprised

Craddock : Did you think the stress of speaking to the police might have been detrimental to RP's health?

TP : Asked not to talk to police. Didn't get that far as he passed away. Only thing he told me when I asked was " about the children, my mate & I were fishing and children walked across the road and he told them to get back because it was too dangerous and the children went back across the road"

Craddock : Did he tell you where he was fishing?

TP : Down at the river, do not know name.

Craddock : Tell you who with?

TP : FA, that's how I got the name.

Than in x exam by Swift was asked :

Swift : How many times did he speak to you about the boy?

TP : Just the last time.......no second last time.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interestingly FA had no questions for this witness.

Thank you! Interesting always. My spontaneous impression of this: TP holds back everything you can hold back. No wonder, FA had no questions. Everyone was serving him, it seems (if he was behind bars or not).
My further thoughts: All the city names are showing up during questionings, which are known to us in relation to the crime and were "forgotten" afterwards. For example: Wauchope (AJ). As GJ said: a Moskito nest around there, reaching even to Queensland.

 

[SouthAussie]

No wonder, FA had no questions. Everyone was serving him, it seems (if he was behind bars or not).

I was wondering about the two pieces of paper FA gave the protected witness who visited him in prison. There was a name on each piece of paper IIRC.

I used to think that they were people that FA wanted to pin William's disappearance on. Now I am wondering if the names were people who FA wanted a threat passed along to ... if the two named people said anything they (or their families) would pay the price.

imo

 

[FromGermany1]

Was FA’s father also called Frank @drsleuth ???

I have found some family members in my searches for Darren,(trying to construct a family tree) and trying to work out if Henry Herbert George was FA’s uncle or brother? (I had thought he may have even been FA’s father??? ) Interestingly he has also been before the courts at age 20 for a child sexual offence ….

I believe that FA had a brother that was a priest ??? Can anyone confirm that ???

IMO

I can't help, I'm sorry, but FA and a connection with "priest" is buzzing through my memory .....

FA and his alias (or changed name) and the name of a Saint ..... ..... can't remember reasonable.

 

[JLZ]

I can't help, I'm sorry, but FA and a connection with "priest" is buzzing through my memory .....

FA and his alias (or changed name) and the name of a Saint ..... ..... can't remember reasonable.

Martin? He's younger than FA. I think FA's father would be dead.

 

[Awakening]

Do you mean RD??? Or have I missed some major evidence with DP???

FA is currently serving time of 16 years, for offences that relate to two young boys and a girl …

IMO

Do you know if those children were in foster care?

 

[drsleuth]

Was the Coroner / Craddock thinking William may have been disposed of by use of a boat??? In waters some distance away, and, only accessible by boat???? And that is why he hasn’t been found as yet??

IMO

I don't know, but that would be a reasonable thought to me IMO.

It's always stuck with me, just how often the question was asked ( I'll have a look at my notes to see who was asked re fishing & a boat in relation to FA & RP.

 

[SouthAussie]

I wonder how the police got onto the boat thing. I am guessing it was through something RP told them. It seems that the police knew about the letter asking/telling RP to move the boat to a "lady's place" before Irma Porter was asked about it (she had thrown the letter out).

Or maybe the police learned about it through the prison services. Do the prisons check the letters their prisoners write before posting the letters?

I know that the prison services handed over recordings of FA's phone conversations, because I came across an article yesterday where FA and Martin Parish's phone conversations had been recorded and they were speaking of getting the police to "realise" that someone was a pathological liar.

It seems that they were speaking of allegations about FA sexually abusing a child in a relative of MP's home in 2015.
Abbott was bailed but was not allowed to attend the church any more (maybe an AVO?) until late 2016 when the court changed the order.

MP also admitted he did "homework" for FA while the inquest was happening.

I can't help but wonder why MP was so invested in defending and helping FA.

Minister backed paedophile Frank Abbott in court twice: William Tyrrell inquest hears

 

[Couldbe]

"Steve" from the Ch7 doco said FA would have had RP's car for the day (while RP was having treatment), that he would have been in Benaroon Drive for petty theft, and that he is "100% sure" that FA took little William.

One of the (hotly contested) cars that FM saw parked in the street was very much like RP's car. The white station wagon.

imo (because the doco is no longer available to link)

Extracted from above to make comments about:

"Steve" from the Ch7 doco said FA would have had RP's car for the day (while RP was having treatment), that he would have been in Benaroon Drive for petty theft, and that he is "100% sure" that FA took little William.

This just my opinion:

Go phoned the FGM at 9.10am on that fateful morning. While it sounds quite a plausible explanation for his call, I propose the following:-

Question 1: When there was no answer … did he leave a message? … doesn’t matter if he didn’t, and if he did phone her to check on her being at home (In preparation for a robbery … one unanswered call by the FGM could have indicated to GO that she was out in her garden at that time. He would have phoned her again to save GO/FA unnecessarily driving there to steal.
However, the FM has said that she saw those two cars parked across the road at approx. 7 – 7.30am, and they would have been able to observe MFC’s vehicle parked at 48 Benaroon (Having arrived the night before for their visit).

Question 2: If those 2 cars were parked there and drivers were somewhere observing any activity at 48 Benaroon … why would GO’s phone call to check if FGM was at home be necessary?

Question 3: Most unlikely they would have expected the MFC to depart for Lakewood at around 9am, and the MFC said he did not see those 2 vehicles parked there when he drove off.
If, while FM, FGM and the 2 children were bike-riding), FA (Or an associate) did drive and turn around in the neighbour’s (Millers) driveway, he would mostly likely have concluded … that with much supervised activity of children (FM playing Mummy Monster and tree climbing, etc) that he should just abort any thoughts for stealing activity there.

Is it possible, that with discussions between the FM and the FGM during the next couple of days following William’s disappearance, FM learned about the vehicles that GO owned, and she just conjured up in her head she had seen those vehicles (In her desperation to explain how William could have been there roaring one minute and gone minutes later!).

 

[SouthAussie]

Looking at Google maps, it looks like the Clarence River is about 300km north of Kendall.

Maclean sits next to the Clarence River.

Google maps

 

[drsleuth]

These are the witnesses where fishing & a boat was asked about re FA & RP

Witness who owns property with communication tower
Craddock : Do you know weather Ray ever was talking about having a boat?
Witness : No

Witness JA ( owned takeaway shop @ Wauchope )

Craddock : Either of them ever talk about fishing?

JA : Now I think about it, yeah he did, don't know where

Craddock : Talk about boat?

JA : Not that I re-call

Witness DP
Craddock : Know FA & RP friends some years.

DP : Yes, used to go to Kew shops, Ray had a little white dog.

Craddock : Do you know if had boats at some time?

DP : Don't know, not on my property.

Witness IN ( Husband is Ainsley aka Dooley )

Craddock :

Craddock : Is Dooley a fisherman?

IN : Yeah used to do alot. FA & Dooley never went fishing together.

Craddock : Did FA talk about fishing with RP?

IN : Yeah used to go to Dunbogan - didn't talk alot about it.

Craddock : Did you know if FA or RP had a boat?

IN : No, never saw - never heard

Witness PT

Craddock : Did FA ever talk about fishing?

PT : Nothing I can remember.

Craddock : Did FA have a boat?

PT : never saw one


These are the ones that I have found so far....

 

[nightrider17]

The only thing that peeks my interest - why only dispose of WT by boat. IMO


If this is a fool-proof method to rid yourself of a problem why not use it repeatedly especially since FA has offended repeatedly?? well past 2014. JMO

 

[nightrider17]

If the FGM didn't know the family were arriving Thursday night but expected them Friday after lunch and the cars were there 7.00 am then like "Could be" mentioned it was not necessary to call unless to distract someone to go inside and leave child unattended outside?? JMO

 

[Couldbe]

If the FGM didn't know the family were arriving Thursday night but expected them Friday after lunch and the cars were there 7.00 am then like "Could be" mentioned it was not necessary to call unless to distract someone to go inside and leave child unattended outside?? JMO

JMO - Good thought, but that did not happen nightrider.

 

[SLouTh]

The only thing that peeks my interest - why only dispose of WT by boat. IMO


If this is a fool-proof method to rid yourself of a problem why not use it repeatedly especially since FA has offended repeatedly?? well past 2014. JMO

William may have been the only one (child victim) who died .?? And it may not have been planned for that to happen…???

The other child victims of FA are still alive … (the cases we know about, and ones he is currently serving 16 years for 10 offences, for… )

I think the “boat theory” is just one theory being explored by the Coroner .. (and / or they have some evidence regarding a boat we don’t know about ???? )

IMO

 

[SLouTh]

unless to distract someone to go inside and leave child unattended outside?? J

I have also wondered if this was the ulterior motive for that call at 09:10 as well ….to get the adults inside for the phone call, and leaving the children outside unattended ..

However, that failed as they didn’t hear the phone …

JMO

 

[SLouTh]

Is it possible, that with discussions between the FM and the FGM during the next couple of days following William’s disappearance, FM learned about the vehicles that GO owned, and she just conjured up in her head she had seen those vehicles (In her desperation to explain how William could have been there roaring one minute and gone minutes later!).

Of the 2 cars, that FM allegedly saw I think the one that is most recognisable, is the white station wagon, and a most similar car was owned by RP, (rather than GO), and one that FA was known to have had access to drive ..

When Police made the public statement that they were disregarding the 2 cars as a “false memory” by the FM ….. was that actually a “strategy” in play????? (By Police or the Coroner??)
To make the drivers / owners of those 2 cars, feel that Police were no longer interested in those 2 cars ….


July 2019:
Documents released by the inquest into William’s disappearance included a statement that suggested police could not corroborate the foster mother’s evidence that she saw two strange cars in the street on that September morning.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/william-tyrrell-where-foster-mum-fits-into-missing-toddler-mystery/news-story/65a0ecde5f265bf69beacef17bdfc066

 

[LolaAngelina]

Extracted from above to make comments about:

This just my opinion:

Go phoned the FGM at 9.10am on that fateful morning. While it sounds quite a plausible explanation for his call, I propose the following:-

Question 1: When there was no answer … did he leave a message? … doesn’t matter if he didn’t, and if he did phone her to check on her being at home (In preparation for a robbery … one unanswered call by the FGM could have indicated to GO that she was out in her garden at that time. He would have phoned her again to save GO/FA unnecessarily driving there to steal.
However, the FM has said that she saw those two cars parked across the road at approx. 7 – 7.30am, and they would have been able to observe MFC’s vehicle parked at 48 Benaroon (Having arrived the night before for their visit).

Question 2: If those 2 cars were parked there and drivers were somewhere observing any activity at 48 Benaroon … why would GO’s phone call to check if FGM was at home be necessary?

Question 3: Most unlikely they would have expected the MFC to depart for Lakewood at around 9am, and the MFC said he did not see those 2 vehicles parked there when he drove off.
If, while FM, FGM and the 2 children were bike-riding), FA (Or an associate) did drive and turn around in the neighbour’s (Millers) driveway, he would mostly likely have concluded … that with much supervised activity of children (FM playing Mummy Monster and tree climbing, etc) that he should just abort any thoughts for stealing activity there.

Is it possible, that with discussions between the FM and the FGM during the next couple of days following William’s disappearance, FM learned about the vehicles that GO owned, and she just conjured up in her head she had seen those vehicles (In her desperation to explain how William could have been there roaring one minute and gone minutes later!).

Very unlikely. Why would FGM know and remember not just one but 2 vehicles owned by GO? Why would that even be a topic of discussion with her daughter?

 

[SouthAussie]

William may have been the only one (child victim) who died .?? And it may not have been planned for that to happen…???

The other child victims of FA are still alive … (the cases we know about, and ones he is currently serving 16 years for 10 offences, for… )

I think the “boat theory” is just one theory being explored by the Coroner .. (and / or they have some evidence regarding a boat we don’t know about ???? )

IMO

Depending what age one considers a child victim to be. Helen Harrison was 17, technically still a minor. Just not a little kid. Pretty sure most people think FA was responsible for her death, and he brags how he evaded a murder conviction twice.

If FA is responsible for William's disappearance, I wonder if William would have been returned/dumped (alive) somewhere, if there wasn't a massive search happening all around Kendall for days and days. A massive search that very quickly went into effect, within about an hour of William's disappearance.

imo