Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard, Kendall (NSW), Sept 2014 #76

[Warshawski]

"I think police want the public to blame the DPP instead of themselves for failing to solve the case."
(Comment by @JLZ in the last thread) Link


I was thinking about this last night, mostly because I am currently reading Frank & Fearless by Nicholas Cowdery.
Nicholas Cowdery was the NSW Director of Public Prosecutions for 17 years, and in this book he speaks of high profile cases that he chose to prosecute or not prosecute.

He says there is always someone hating the DPP's decisions, whether that be the police or the accused. The ODPP prosecutors become immune to that. They are an independent office that is designed to run with no political affiliations (although every few years politicians try to change that). They simply look at the law, and the law is their guide in their decisions.

4½ weeks now since it was leaked that a brief was given to the DPP. And the brief was said to have been provided 'earlier in June' so it could be up to 7 or 8 weeks that the DPP have had the brief.

I wonder if there will be another leak, if the DPP declines (or has declined) to charge and prosecute.

Thanks for sharing SA.

My brain has never gone to blaming the DPP - I acknowledge that everyone has a job to do & I‘m trusting that they do it.

First Time - and is there a collective ‘hands up’.

I’m with you on your ‘wondering’...as I suspect there’s always a bigger picture.

 

[k-mac]

Not sure why there is assumptions that there is something wrong in William's case because we haven't heard anything. It has been a few weeks.

Since the thread is mentioning Caroline Burne's case, you can see it was over 2 years before the DPP made a decision to proceed.

Byrne murder case: Timeline of events

Gordon Wood: a timeline of the main events in this protracted legal case.

www.abc.net.au

March 9, 2004 - Police complete five-year investigation into Ms Byrne's death and send a report to the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP).
April 4, 2006 - Wood arrested in London, weeks after DPP agreed there was enough evidence to charge him with murder.


A few weeks after handing the DPP Williams brief is a bit premature and perhaps optimistic to surmise that it is just going to fall over.

moo

 

[LolaAngelina]

Not sure why there is assumptions that there is something wrong in William's case because we haven't heard anything. It has been a few weeks.

Since the thread is mentioning Caroline Burne's case, you can see it was over 2 years before the DPP made a decision to proceed.

Byrne murder case: Timeline of events

Gordon Wood: a timeline of the main events in this protracted legal case.

www.abc.net.au

March 9, 2004 - Police complete five-year investigation into Ms Byrne's death and send a report to the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP).
April 4, 2006 - Wood arrested in London, weeks after DPP agreed there was enough evidence to charge him with murder.


A few weeks after handing the DPP Williams brief is a bit premature and perhaps optimistic to surmise that it is just going to fall over.

moo

It’s actually been around 6 weeks.

 

[k-mac]

It’s actually been around 6 weeks.

Right.
Not a long period of time in the grand scheme of things.

When you compare other examples ie Caroline Byrne. (2years)

 

[Awakening]

Zooming in on particular date? Sounds like inside info to me.

On what we know of proposed charges through MSM reports, my own guess is that the ODDP will not agree to proceed.

I wish I did have inside info. The police seem to like making announcements around his birthday or the missing anniversary, so that’s my guess. If nothings happened by the end of September, then nothing ever will. MOO.

 

[SouthAussie]

Caroline's father remains absolutely certain that Wood was responsible. IMO, he is correct.

The problem with that case is going to be the same problem with William's case. No matter who the accused is.


"To prove that Gordon murdered Caroline, no other reasonable explanation for her death could exist. One obvious explanation for how Caroline ended up at the bottom of the Gap was suicide. Unless the Crown could rule that out as a reasonable possibility, Gordon could not be convicted of Caroline's murder."
Ref: Frank & Fearless by (former) Director of Public Prosecutions Nicholas Cowdery, Chp 11


There are theories in William's case that the Crown would have to clearly rule out.
It isn't just a case of "well, that is unlikely" as some (not you) may think. It is a case of ruling other theories out completely. That those things couldn't possibly have happened.

 

[JBowie]

Unless the Crown could rule that out as a reasonable possibility, Gordon could not be convicted of Caroline's murder."

"In March 2006, the New South Wales Director of Public Prosecutions Nicholas Cowdery QC agreed with police that there was enough evidence to charge Wood with Byrne's murder." -- Wiki

And he was convicted by a jury on the evidence and arguments advanced by the prosecution.

Granted Wood later won an appeal that quashed the conviction but I remain convinced that he was involved. IMO he's as cunning as the proverbial outhouse rat.

 

[drsleuth]

https://www.news.com.au/national/william-tyrrell-fake-news-and-a-real-tragedy/audio/f1bfadaa67a2fe6b9565c882953d93b0

William Tyrrell: fake news and a real tragedy​

We catch up with the latest on the disappearance of William Tyrrell, some of the more hysterical reporting and the virtual lynch mob that surround it.

Good summary

 

[butterstick]

Thanks for sharing SA.

My brain has never gone to blaming the DPP - I acknowledge that everyone has a job to do & I‘m trusting that they do it.

First Time - and is there a collective ‘hands up’.

I’m with you on your ‘wondering’...as I suspect there’s always a bigger picture.

There's zero evidence the current police leaked the DPP approach to the media. They seemed annoyed it was.

It's quite a silly suggestion. (not from you, Warshawski)

And, in any case, if the police are to be blamed, the public are far more aware of the investigators during previous years.

 

[LolaAngelina]

https://www.news.com.au/national/william-tyrrell-fake-news-and-a-real-tragedy/audio/f1bfadaa67a2fe6b9565c882953d93b0

William Tyrrell: fake news and a real tragedy​

We catch up with the latest on the disappearance of William Tyrrell, some of the more hysterical reporting and the virtual lynch mob that surround it.

Good summary

This was really well said.

“Imagine you are the foster mother and you’re innocent. You have the grief of a child going missing. I’m sure they were aware of those people digging into who they were and posting screenshots. You have that going on and then for years you have these online trolls digging into your business, you’ve got journalists posting about every time you make a marketplace sale. Even though your identity is concealed it’s not really. I’ve seen people post really personal details like their phone number, their address, which means they probably don’t feel safe. The police have thrown this grenade into the public and gone “we think that this woman was involved in his disappearance” and then just left you. Who knows what sort of vigilante justice could come from that, it’s quite scary. So l really want people to take that empathy journey every now and then. Remember what happened to cases in the past like Lindy chamberlain.
Things that took us a long time to figure out what the truth was, in the meantime those peoples lives were destroyed. Where we are right now is we don’t know anything. I hope what the police know they keep to themselves. If they are going to charge someone, just charge someone don’t announce it, just shut up.”

 

[iiiii's]

I listened, I'll never get that 40 minutes of my life back.

 

[Warshawski]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

This on William’s situation was a fair summation initially (IMO) but lost it’s way I think toward the end.

Of course ‘people‘ will look up, search out etc in the hope of providing a hint toward the solving of this truely awful situation.
Children are not balloons - they do not fly off into the sky, nor do they burst unaided into oblivion. So there has to be an explanation for William’s disappearance. .. IMO there’s a ‘universal’ rule that exists regarding our Children. It’s the reason why perpetrators get such a hard time in jail ( hardened murders will not go easy on those who harm kids. . those here from the penal institutions know that)

And if truely ‘searching’ for answers (in any crime) I expect that as the Police are, as we all are here, and as many are independently questioning - every blade of grass needs to be turned over thrice & put under the microscope. Of course (in this situation) those surrounding William during the time of his disappearance will be / should be examined ever so closely.
I’m sure it’s uncomfortable, particularly as people are grieving & can barely focus - however if I was in that situation I would be doing my utmost & wracking my brain for every iota of minuscule information.

As much as I’m abhorred by the treatment of Lindy Chamberlain & Kathleen Folbigg & never believed in their guilt, I don’t raise them as a comparison here. (Technology has moved on a long way, plus the sleuthing community would never accept a stitch-up such as happened in Lindy’s case ! )

Nina & Rebecca lost me on their impartiality when they became disturbed by people looking into the former Fosters and their selling stuff on Gumtree etc - yet they made no mention of the various other charges against them, quite serious charges to do with dummy auction bids and treatment of others fostered by them.

N & R laid Blame on Police for publicly releasing info on evidence being presented to DPP, with no evidence to support their opinion - while at the same time they put ‘blame’ on their media affiliates for the various publications about William’s situation.

Personally, I find it sad. This is not a situation for capitalisation.

Bless You William. I know the time will come when you shine through.

 

[Warshawski]

The problem with that case is going to be the same problem with William's case. No matter who the accused is.


"To prove that Gordon murdered Caroline, no other reasonable explanation for her death could exist. One obvious explanation for how Caroline ended up at the bottom of the Gap was suicide. Unless the Crown could rule that out as a reasonable possibility, Gordon could not be convicted of Caroline's murder."
Ref: Frank & Fearless by (former) Director of Public Prosecutions Nicholas Cowdery, Chp 11


There are theories in William's case that the Crown would have to clearly rule out.
It isn't just a case of "well, that is unlikely" as some (not you) may think. It is a case of ruling other theories out completely. That those things couldn't possibly have happened.

There is a big difference though SA … while the body of Caroline Byrne was found, currently William is still missing.

 

[Warshawski]

This was really well said.

“Imagine you are the foster mother and you’re innocent. You have the grief of a child going missing. I’m sure they were aware of those people digging into who they were and posting screenshots. You have that going on and then for years you have these online trolls digging into your business, you’ve got journalists posting about every time you make a marketplace sale. Even though your identity is concealed it’s not really. I’ve seen people post really personal details like their phone number, their address, which means they probably don’t feel safe. The police have thrown this grenade into the public and gone “we think that this woman was involved in his disappearance” and then just left you. Who knows what sort of vigilante justice could come from that, it’s quite scary. So l really want people to take that empathy journey every now and then. Remember what happened to cases in the past like Lindy chamberlain.
Things that took us a long time to figure out what the truth was, in the meantime those peoples lives were destroyed. Where we are right now is we don’t know anything. I hope what the police know they keep to themselves. If they are going to charge someone, just charge someone don’t announce it, just shut up.”

I agree Lola - powerful, well written statements. My heart breaks for all those who knew & loved William. They deserve the truth.

I can’t begin to imagine the experience of a Mother of a missing child.

Some years ago I was embroiled in what thankfully turned out to be a playful prank ( interestingly between an approx 7- 8 yr old neighbouring foster daughter of my daughter & my 3 -4 yr grandchild). Speaking personally - I was frantic, my heart racing, we / I calling for him, searching outside & inside to no avail - yet part of me doubted ‘foul play’ was possible in that situation. I was very loudly saying that I was Calling the Police, as I was about to, when he popped up out of a cardboard box that I’d previously looked in !! and while she the little miss was ‘looking for him everywhere.
(Some interesting take-aways & follow up discussions were had, with a good kid developed and eventually returned to her rehabilitated Dad)

As a mother I grieve everyday my stillborn daughter. As many will ask, ‘Is it better to have had & held‘ or ‘never to have had at all’ - and those of us will never know the answer (subjective to degrees as it may be )

Speaking personally I know if it was my child missing, I’d leave no stone unturned for answers. I’d be an open book on all I could provide that may help to find him & I’d be appreciative of the many people (globally) who are United in his cause.

 

[SouthAussie]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

Of course ‘people‘ will look up, search out etc in the hope of providing a hint toward the solving of this truely awful situation.

I don't think that is what they were saying. That people are 'looking them up'.
They are saying that there is a virtual lynch mob out there that is stalking.

Big difference between
a) looking to see who these families are
b) tracking down where they live, putting their address online, watching what they are selling on GumTree, etc etc ... (not to mention those who have already been arrested and charged for harassing them)

Not only stalking the foster parents, but also stalking the bio mum.
And the media are publishing anything that they can attach the name William Tyrrell to. (click bait)

imo

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I don't think that is what they were saying. That people are 'looking them up'.
They are saying that there is a virtual lynch mob out there that is stalking.

I think these people -should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

 

[JLZ]

Was there ever a report of what the wife of neighbour RD (who was mistaken about his tennis club times) remembers?

(Edited to remove his full name)

 

[butterstick]

This was really well said.

“Imagine you are the foster mother and you’re innocent. You have the grief of a child going missing. I’m sure they were aware of those people digging into who they were and posting screenshots. You have that going on and then for years you have these online trolls digging into your business, you’ve got journalists posting about every time you make a marketplace sale. Even though your identity is concealed it’s not really...”

Absolutely.

Same can be said about being a bio parent. You child is lost and you are powerless. The media paints you in a highly unsympathetic light. They follow you and dig up your life. No protections. Etc

Or a POI who loses access to their grand children because of a media storm, and you are later totally cleared. Etc.

These are unfortunate things. For many years the foster parents were highly protected, and comparatively still are given the media blackout.

What matters, ultimately, is any efforts to help/find WT.

 

[LolaAngelina]

Absolutely.

Same can be said about being a bio parent. You child is lost and you are powerless. The media paints you in a highly unsympathetic light. They follow you and dig up your life. No protections. Etc

Or a POI who loses access to their grand children because of a media storm, and you are later totally cleared. Etc.

These are unfortunate things. For many years the foster parents were highly protected, and comparatively still are given the media blackout.

What matters, ultimately, is any efforts to help/find WT.

BBM The bio parents would still be protected if a certain person didn’t decide to out them. That’s the only reason the media could publish their names and their criminal history.

 

[butterstick]

The foster parents names have appeared in various places too, and that hasn't lead to their faces and names being on front pages. It's a choice.