GUILTY Austria - Woman Held Captive, Had 7 Children by Father

[reb]

also,, this:


<Mr Mayer said that his client was now a &#8220;broken man,&#8221; and he would try to have him declared mentally unfit to stand trial. &#8220;My client doesn&#8217;t belong in a prison; he belongs in a psychiatric ward," he said.
But police and prison authorities claim that Mr Fritzl appears &#8220;normal&#8221; and &#8220;composed&#8221;.>

hhhhmmmmm... interesting,, the difference another perspective can make...!

btw.... the first thing they should have done is tether him to a pole. he has far more freedom now than his victims EVER had. then feed him every 3 days or so.
which reminds me... i still find it unbelievable that he went down there every few days, for 24 yrs. there must have been longer periods of time where he didn't go down... surely there were times when he got tired of doing it, or was sick or something... i mean that is some SERIOUS dedication to your torture subjects!!! and to go through all that work.. pushing the shelf aside, doing the combination lock, etc. etc.. going through EIGHT doors in the process, including that little hole.... what a pain!! i would have gotten sick of the charade after 2 weeks!!

so.. if he averaged, let's say twice a week.. for 24 yrs.. that's around 2,300 times he went down there. and he had a wife and kids living with him every day.. and neighbors, and ALL those tenants.. and that no one ever caught him in the act, he never slipped up.. no freudian slips of the tongue,, no one happened to see him place the baby in a box on the doorstep, etc. etc... i still just can't believe it.
typically even if you are dealing with a really good compulsive liar, eventually things will start to not add up, you'll have a weird feeling in your gut that tells you something is not right, and so on.

 

[DawnTCB]

even if you are dealing with a really good compulsive liar, eventually things will start to not add up, you'll have a weird feeling in your gut that tells you something is not right, and so on.

I don't know, I don't consider myself a compulsive liar, but I did manage to conceal the fact that I was smoking from my ex husband for about nine years... Looking back I know it was my passive-aggressive response to the lies and deception I got from him over the years, but that's another story.

I paid cash for my cigarettes,and smoked only when I was out or he was out. When driving home I stopped about five minutes away, cleaned off the car window, emptied the ashtray, washed my hands, sprayed myself with Febreeze, brushed my hair. When I smoked at home I smoked outside, out of view of the neighbors, and flushed my butts (always checking to be sure it went down) or put them in a ziploc bag in my trunk until I could dispose of them elsewhere. I had a hiding place in a cup in a box in the garage for my pack. I kept my teeth brushed, and I never took any chances. If I couldn't reach him to see if he was on his way home, well, I just wouldn't take that chance. Was it a big hassle? Yes. Was it worth it? Well, now I would say no, but obviously then it would have been yes. People say to me, oh he must have known! But he didn't. I know the fury that would have landed on me if he knew... and I know when he did finally find out, after we were separated, he freaked. He would not have been able to pretend about that particular subject.

My BIL hid a pain medication addiction for years. My uncle hid a gambling addiction for years. Both of them stole to keep up their habits... both of their wives thought they were hard workers who were probably depressed. They had no clue of the reality until everything hit the fan.

Obviously I have no idea if she knew or not, but it seems to me that it would be easy enough to hide, especially since he has admitted to pilfering food from other tenants when they were out (less food missing from his own home) and he has been described as a tyrant (more likely that she would be HAPPY he was out of the house and not care a lick where he was as long as he stayed gone as long as possible). Honestly, he is described as so hateful, she might have happily believed he was having an affair and hoped that was true - less obligations for her, you know?

I am sure there were times when he might have been gone a little too long and made her suspicious, but the list of things he was more likely to be doing than keeping his "runaway" daughter and her three children in a secret area of the cellar is a long one.

 

[reb]

right, i agree... but how could she not know he might still be in the house? did she not check to see if his car was gone?

he said he was working on secret plans for work down in the cellar, and she was not allowed to go down there. for him to be down there for DAYS.... and, so often..... (if she saw his vehicle was still by their house),, and to be so secretive, then you would think that (duh......!) one might be a bit suspicious about what the heck was going on down there.

 

[Spazkat9696]

right, i agree... but how could she not know he might still be in the house? did she not check to see if his car was gone?

he said he was working on secret plans for work down in the cellar, and she was not allowed to go down there. for him to be down there for DAYS.... and, so often..... (if she saw his vehicle was still by their house),, and to be so secretive, then you would think that (duh......!) one might be a bit suspicious about what the heck was going on down there.

You never know what a person will do when living in that kind of fear under those kind of conditions until you are in that situation. Just ask Patty Hearst, Shawn Hornbeck or the numerous others who have Stockholm syndrome.

 

[Vegas Bride]

He also was a frequent customer at a brothel so who would be thinking he had a sex slave down in his dungeon when he was also paying for it elsewhere? The times he was down there his wife was probably thinking "well at least he's not spending money at the brothel tonight"

I hope he lives a long long time and suffers horribly for very day. I hope that at some point Elizabeth and her children can find peace and also have a voice in what should be done to him, I hope she will be able to look him in the face and he will see that he is no longer in control and she now has a life far away from him and he did not destroy her spirit!!

VB

 

[PSUfan]

He also was a frequent customer at a brothel so who would be thinking he had a sex slave down in his dungeon when he was also paying for it elsewhere? The times he was down there his wife was probably thinking "well at least he's not spending money at the brothel tonight"

I hope he lives a long long time and suffers horribly for very day. I hope that at some point Elizabeth and her children can find peace and also have a voice in what should be done to him, I hope she will be able to look him in the face and he will see that he is no longer in control and she now has a life far away from him and he did not destroy her spirit!!

VB

Very well said. I have the same prayers for the victims. Only, I would not want Elizabeth and her children to ever see him again.

She would be a broken woman, at the hands of this sadistic man, who even the professional brothel workers were afraid of. I only wish her peace and privacy.

I hope that she will be able to escape the press..escape her family if it helps her, and live the rest of her life out with the help of therapy, in a quiet private place.

 

[Zanko]

While it's possible the youngest is the granddaughter's, I doubt it. I think they're saying six of seven because they can't definitively say that the deceased twin is his, since they don't have a dna sample to test. If the youngest is the granddaughters, they wouldn't be saying "six of Elisabeth's seven kids". In addition, I doubt her daughter would have reached sexual maturity, or well, been able to conceive at thirteen or fourteen. I wouldn't be surprised if she's never had her cycle. Without the sunlight, and the limited oxygen, etc, I doubt her body has matured properly or quickly.

Although I do think it's possible that the youngest is Kersten's, I definitely wonder about Kersten's physical development. She was born in captivity and lived every single day in captivity. The lack of nutrients could very well affect her ability to develop normally. Plus, can you imagine the genetic issues? If the youngest is Kersten's, he is the monster's son and great grandson! I would imagine that the odds are against Kersten giving birth to a full term baby from this level of incest. Not impossible, though. Both Kersten and Elisabeth may have suffered multiple miscarriages over the years. I also wouldn't put it past this monster to have been raping the two boys as well.

 

[kuriouskate]

I want so much for good things to happen for Elisabeth now. I want people to come into her life who can wrap her in love and at least start her on the healing journey. I know 24 years were stolen but she's still young in many respects. I think about her all the time and I pray for new beginnings. Something kept her alive. I mean she could have gotten infections and died without medical intervention. She could have had complications in her pregnancies. Sheer depression and despondency could have driven her insane. She could have maybe figured out a way to kill herself...who would have blamed her? But something kept her alive in that insanity. I just cry out to the heavens above for good things and good people to somehow breathe new existence into her. God she needs good water and air to replenish her cells and human touch that gives life not steals it. I just had to say this. It makes me feel better just to send whatever I can out into the world for her cuz I'm just a blot on the map over here in Montana

 

[reb]

PSUfan... that is exactly what I have been thinking..... how ironic that she was hidden away as a secret prisoner all these years and no one knew her pain, or even that she existed.. and now the entire world wants to see them.. and every reporter on earth is frothing at the mouth and clawing each other's eyes out trying to get to them. and i bet everyone from maury povich, to oprah, to the enquirer, the lifetime network and scores of book and film companies are clamoring to get at them also.. anything to get a glimpse of them, to make money off them, to use them for their own gain and indulge peoples' curiosity. i too hope they are able to be spared from all this, because it could really mess them up to the point where they might want to go hide away again!

i hope that elisabeth gets to live out the rest of her life like a queen, getting whatever she wants,, namely,, lots of comfort, support, TLC,, all the free medical care she could ever need or want.... trips wherever she wants to go... and i'm sure her kids will get the best help with getting an education... and help with social development.. and so on.

 

[reb]

kate- i just wrote my post before reading yours.. looks like a lot of us (along w/ people all over the world i'm sure) are on the same page!

it will be interesting to see how it all unfolds.. if people will come together to help them, and how. i could see people donating enough money to her so they never have to worry about expenses again. i just hope the shock of all the attention doesn't do more harm than good, for them.

 

[MCDRAW]

right, i agree... but how could she not know he might still be in the house? did she not check to see if his car was gone?

he said he was working on secret plans for work down in the cellar, and she was not allowed to go down there. for him to be down there for DAYS.... and, so often..... (if she saw his vehicle was still by their house),, and to be so secretive, then you would think that (duh......!) one might be a bit suspicious about what the heck was going on down there.

I think he probably made her life miserable. She was just probably thankful that he wasn't around.

 

[reb]

i still find this amazing and heartwarming:

http://au.news.yahoo.com/080506/2/16r7o.html?f=mv

<Herbst said he had the impression that the victimised family had a loving relationship when he met them.

"My experience of the family was a very positive one. Looking at the way they treat each other, it is really very loving, they are open towards each other and they play together," he said.

United for the first time just over a week ago, Elisabeth Fritzl, five of her children and her mother Rosemarie are now in the care of a hospital in Amstetten, some 130km west of the capital Vienna.

"If you see the family with your own eyes, it makes you feel much better than looking at the whole case in theory and from afar," he said.>


and apparently,, (no surprise..) the paparazzi are climbing trees around the hospital in an attempt to get photos of the family.... and even though the whole world is curious about them,, that is just sick and cruel. good thing the police are doing their job.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/n...victims_doctor_makes_urgent_no_paparazzi_plea

also-
<The reports said that Elisabeth Fritzl had invented fantasy stories about why they were down there in an attempt to protect the children.>

 

[Native New Yorker]

I want so much for good things to happen for Elisabeth now. I want people to come into her life who can wrap her in love and at least start her on the healing journey. I know 24 years were stolen but she's still young in many respects. I think about her all the time and I pray for new beginnings. Something kept her alive. I mean she could have gotten infections and died without medical intervention. She could have had complications in her pregnancies. Sheer depression and despondency could have driven her insane. She could have maybe figured out a way to kill herself...who would have blamed her? But something kept her alive in that insanity. I just cry out to the heavens above for good things and good people to somehow breathe new existence into her. God she needs good water and air to replenish her cells and human touch that gives life not steals it. I just had to say this. It makes me feel better just to send whatever I can out into the world for her cuz I'm just a blot on the map over here in Montana

I love what you said, and hope and pray for the same things as well......

and you too, reb, I also hope that Elizabeth gets to live like a queen.
I know that her story has inspired me...
for one thing, I will never feel as bad about my own childhood, which was Paradise compared to the dungeon of horrors....
I am more grateful than ever for the things I have always taken for granted, fresh air, sunlight, good food, etc.....

 

[believe09]

Stop the discussion, Josef's feeling are being hurt by the negative press...

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/05/07/austria.meeting.ap/index.html

:boohoo::boohoo::boohoo:

Elisabeth is an inspiration in her own way-BUT she needs to be cared for , and praised and supported...

 

[Vegas Bride]

Isn't Elisabeth amazing? There she was with all the years of terror and abuse which none of us can really imagine, yet she was and is a loving mother, doing what she could to nurture her children! We hear stories every day of mothers who hurt and kill their children, mothers who have fresh air and open spaces with all that the world has to offer, yet they choose to harm the ones they should love and care about. I admire her so much for surviving and somehow with all the evil around her giving her children the love they needed.
Do they have Mothers Day in Austria? IMO no one deserves to be honored more than her! I also hope that the news media will be forced to leave them alone, the top government needs to step in and make sure they are safe and far from prying eyes.
Also I was wondering, in Austria do they have it where a lawyer would be provided for you if you can't afford one? Since it's been mentioned that evil one is very much in debt I'm thinking he really would not have the means to pay himself.

VB

 

[Floh]

He's talking. much more than the following at the link:

In his own words: Dungeon dad Fritzl on incest, Hitler and 'my proper family' in the cellar


But the evil pervert claimed he held Elisabeth "for months" before he gave in to his insatiable desire to have sex with his daughter.

***

Fritzl also admits to having incestuous urges for his own mother after she ditched her husband. And he claims he was influenced by the Nazis.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ews.html?in_article_id=564753&in_page_id=1811

He's going to throw everything out hoping something sticks. :furious::furious::furious:

 

[concernedperson]

He's talking. much more than the following at the link:

In his own words: Dungeon dad Fritzl on incest, Hitler and 'my proper family' in the cellar


But the evil pervert claimed he held Elisabeth "for months" before he gave in to his insatiable desire to have sex with his daughter.

***

Fritzl also admits to having incestuous urges for his own mother after she ditched her husband. And he claims he was influenced by the Nazis.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ews.html?in_article_id=564753&in_page_id=1811

He's going to throw everything out hoping something sticks. :furious::furious::furious:

Floh, I just don't know how much worse this could get. This man has no boundaries and has hurt so many people.

 

[AmandaBrown23]

he is so sickening. I cannot believe that woman had to lose her a huge part of her life for him and I feel even sorrier for the children that never got to go outside, or play at a park or go see a movie. I honestly think of all the things I have heard this is by far one of the worst.

 

[cinsbythesea]

He's talking. much more than the following at the link:

In his own words: Dungeon dad Fritzl on incest, Hitler and 'my proper family' in the cellar


But the evil pervert claimed he held Elisabeth "for months" before he gave in to his insatiable desire to have sex with his daughter.

***

Fritzl also admits to having incestuous urges for his own mother after she ditched her husband. And he claims he was influenced by the Nazis.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ews.html?in_article_id=564753&in_page_id=1811

He's going to throw everything out hoping something sticks. :furious::furious::furious:

Wow - what a guy - he even "bought Elizabeth a washing machine" so that she didn't have to wash all the clothes by hand. This animal is just bathing himself in self-justification. I cannot imagine how it must feel to be sharing the same space as this monster. From reading the article though - I have even more admiration for Elizabeth - she endured so much and yet was always thinking of her children first. I truly hope she is able to finally do some healing and get some overdue and well-deserved happiness from life.

 

[Hopeful One]

That last article made me sick to my stomach. He is a disgusting, perverted, freak. Those poor kids.