Autopsy Report - UCF Osteological Analysis-Duct Tape Info

[ElaineG]

After looking at the evidence and what we know about the case I think there are 2 possible scenarios for the duct tape, *note this is only my opinion after looking at the evidence in its totality:

1. The frantic and flurry of calls made by KC on the 6/16 were to find someone to take care of Caylee so she could be with Tony that evening, when no one was available to help her she came up with her own twisted solution, she chloroformed her and put her in the trunk where no one would see the child, the duct tape was placed over her mouth so if she awoke she would not scream out, a small 2 year old would have a hard time pulling off duct tape wrapped around her head. [we do not know if she had used the chloroform as a babysitter or sleep agent before but since there levels in the car were too high to be part of a decomp event, it is possible she did this before] The next morning poor Caylee was already dead, after riding around with the body in her trunk for several days (this would explain the carpet decomp stain) trying to figure out what to do she then went to the house grabbed a laundry bag and after stuffing the body in that put it in plastic bags, the cell pings put her all over the place this week, mostly likely trying to find a place to dump the body.

2. This scenario is much more sinister, the fight with CA on 6/15 was the breaking point for KC. From the depositions we know there was escalating tensions about who was or should be raising Caylee. I think there is much more to this fight and others between CA & KC than is being released, KC had been making statements way prior to this fight that would indicate she was jealous of Caylee, there is even the statement from JesseG that KC broke up with him because he loved Caylee more than her and she even made 1 from jail about all they care about is Caylee. Then you have the comments about the constant way CA took over the "motherly duties" of Caylee which also angered KC. IMO she had been planning this for months or at least thinking about it and the fight 6/15 pushed her sociapathic brain over the edge. After GA left for work on 6/16, KC first duct taped her mouth so could not scream or breathe thru her mouth then chloroformed her over the nose (since she was searching chloroform on the net she knew it could also be deadly) I think when Caylee passed out she may have thought she was dead, she then placed her body in the laundry bag then in the garbage bags and then the limp body was put in the trunk, Caylee then actually died from lack of oxygen due to the duct tape and being in the laundry bag (suffocation) which means she was actually alive but unconcious when she was placed in the trunk where she remained for several days while KC tried to figure out what to do with the body. I think the intention of KC was to get rid of the burden and the competion of caylee and also punish and torment CA. Everyone talks about she wasn't smart enough, well she came up with the plan, she executed it and was almost able to hide the body, if it hadn't been for a nosy meter reader, the skeleton may have never been found but even though it was we still don't know the cause of death and we may never know as the defense will mostly likely be the babysitter did it.

What amazes me is that the CA, GA and LA didn't somewhere along the line figure out there was a problem. God Bless Caylee may she rest in peace and may KA rot in hell or least in prison!

 

[Starfish]

I think if Caylee was at one time buried in the sand box, there would be sand, even if it were a very small amount, mentioned in the autopsy. She might have laid her body on top of the sandbox for a short period of time, but long enough so that the dogs would pick up the scent of decomp.

Do we know that at age 2 years 10 months that Caylee weighed 40 lbs? I have a foster daughter this age that weighs in at 27/28 pounds and appears the same size as Caylee.

Sand is mentioned in the autopsy report.

The missing posters state Caylee's weight as 35 lbs.

 

[KenoshaKid]

Great Post. But as fellow Poster Tiki stated, it seems that the Duct Tape found with Caylee's remains match the Duct Tape From The A home as noted and confiscated by LE. Matching "Rare" Duct Tape also found on one of George's gas cans.

Yes, but they did not find the rest of the roll, correct? Just that one piece?
Maybe Casey stuck it on there the last time she used the gas can, to keep the gas from evaporating or spilling into her trunk. She may have had Amy's roll in her car and used it on the gas can and on Caylee and then pitched it or used it all up.

 

[KenoshaKid]

After looking at the evidence and what we know about the case I think there are 2 possible scenarios for the duct tape, *note this is only my opinion after looking at the evidence in its totality:

1. The frantic and flurry of calls made by KC on the 6/16 were to find someone to take care of Caylee so she could be with Tony that evening, when no one was available to help her she came up with her own twisted solution, she chloroformed her and put her in the trunk where no one would see the child, the duct tape was placed over her mouth so if she awoke she would not scream out, a small 2 year old would have a hard time pulling off duct tape wrapped around her head. [we do not know if she had used the chloroform as a babysitter or sleep agent before but since there levels in the car were too high to be part of a decomp event, it is possible she did this before] The next morning poor Caylee was already dead, after riding around with the body in her trunk for several days (this would explain the carpet decomp stain) trying to figure out what to do she then went to the house grabbed a laundry bag and after stuffing the body in that put it in plastic bags, the cell pings put her all over the place this week, mostly likely trying to find a place to dump the body.

2. This scenario is much more sinister, the fight with CA on 6/15 was the breaking point for KC. From the depositions we know there was escalating tensions about who was or should be raising Caylee. I think there is much more to this fight and others between CA & KC than is being released, KC had been making statements way prior to this fight that would indicate she was jealous of Caylee, there is even the statement from JesseG that KC broke up with him because he loved Caylee more than her and she even made 1 from jail about all they care about is Caylee. Then you have the comments about the constant way CA took over the "motherly duties" of Caylee which also angered KC. IMO she had been planning this for months or at least thinking about it and the fight 6/15 pushed her sociapathic brain over the edge. After GA left for work on 6/16, KC first duct taped her mouth so could not scream or breathe thru her mouth then chloroformed her over the nose (since she was searching chloroform on the net she knew it could also be deadly) I think when Caylee passed out she may have thought she was dead, she then placed her body in the laundry bag then in the garbage bags and then the limp body was put in the trunk, Caylee then actually died from lack of oxygen due to the duct tape and being in the laundry bag (suffocation) which means she was actually alive but unconcious when she was placed in the trunk where she remained for several days while KC tried to figure out what to do with the body. I think the intention of KC was to get rid of the burden and the competion of caylee and also punish and torment CA. Everyone talks about she wasn't smart enough, well she came up with the plan, she executed it and was almost able to hide the body, if it hadn't been for a nosy meter reader, the skeleton may have never been found but even though it was we still don't know the cause of death and we may never know as the defense will mostly likely be the babysitter did it.

What amazes me is that the CA, GA and LA didn't somewhere along the line figure out there was a problem. God Bless Caylee may she rest in peace and may KA rot in hell or least in prison!

I'm going with theory #1.I think the flurry of calls was her trying to find a babysitter.

 

[Starfish]

Bad guess on weight on my part. Looking up all facts before posting is somewhat troublesome. Sorry! 30lbs would be a big hole to dig in the sand too.

Do we know there wasn't sand in the black plastic bag? I don't know? Would there be sand mixed in with the plastic bag? I would think so. Isn't sand all over Florida? Also, I think she carried a dead Caylee out of the house in the clothes hamper. I don't think she buried Caylee in the sand box. She put her in the sandbox while in the clothes hamper.

I understood the autopsy report to say that the body was in 2 black plastic garbage bags with yellow tie handles (one cinched, 1 not) & then placed in the hamper bag.

 

[whiteangora]

Sand is mentioned in the autopsy report.

The missing posters state Caylee's weight as 35 lbs.

Some of the missing posters stated Caylee's height as 36"- 48" which is just ridiculous, no (almost) 3 year old is 4 feet tall.
I think the weight was a wild guess as well.

 

[whiteangora]

Funny how today on the Today show the defense expert claims that when he saw the body there was no evidence of duct tape, they were just bones. No residue, nothing......

Deny, deny, deny.

Ummm,..... Doesn't the SA have pictures of the skull laying on the ground at the scene WITH DUCT TAPE on it? If the only thing they can do is deny- well.... Good luck with that.

Maybe when Spitz saw Caylee's remains the duct tape was already removed, he can not continue to deny something that was photographed on the scene and in Dr. G's office. Last night on Geraldo, Dr Baden and and his Mrs were on saying the tape was all crumpled up.

 

[AnotherGladysKravitz]

IMHO Casey was pretty lazy so I do not think that she handled Caylee much after death...Wisteria got me thinking.... I agree that she may have placed her in the sandbox immediately after she died, left her there until she came back home, borrowed the shovel but it was too hot and too hard to dig a big enough hole so she bagged her up, put her into the car and called it a day.

Whenever the smell got too much for her, she dumped her in a familiar place, although she may have scouted places around the airport, she came back to where she was comfortable and was done with it.

I agree with KenoshaKid, she was probably looking for a babysitter and when none could be found....

 

[okiedokietoo]

Originally Posted by Wisteria View Post
Funny how today on the Today show the defense expert claims that when he saw the body there was no evidence of duct tape, they were just bones. No residue, nothing......

Deny, deny, deny.

Ummm,..... Doesn't the SA have pictures of the skull laying on the ground at the scene WITH DUCT TAPE on it? If the only thing they can do is deny- well.... Good luck with that.

Maybe when Spitz saw Caylee's remains the duct tape was already removed, he can not continue to deny something that was photographed on the scene and in Dr. G's office. Last night on Geraldo, Dr Baden and and his Mrs were on saying the tape was all crumpled up.

Both very good posts.
I am curious...do these experts/people lie all the time in normal day-to-day situations, do they only lie when they are experts for the defense or do they only lie when the defendant is guilty?

 

[SuziQ]

Why did The Today Show have the caption when BC was speaking..."Caylee's Attorney"? What a crock.

 

[Jolynna]

I'm going with theory #1.I think the flurry of calls was her trying to find a babysitter.

That has been my theory.

But, I've been thinking, maybe the flurry of calls was because Casey had just lost it with Caylee and Caylee got hurt. Somebody yesterday suggested that Casey shook her. Maybe she did that. Or maybe she threw her against the wall causing internal injury.

Originally the calls could have been asking for help because Caylee was hurt. But, Casey's parents were doing tough love and did not respond. Which might have made Casey even more frustrated and furious.

Thoughts would have been racing through KC's mind. Thoughts like, "It's just like my mother to be hateful and not answer the phone. She makes me do everything. I can't call an ambulance...that's HER job. It's HER fault I got so mad. But, who will go to jail? She is such a *****"

Only maybe while Casey was fuming over her parent's not answering the phone and plotting the lie she was going to give should they call her back, Caylee was crying and not letting Casey think. Every time Casey approached Caylee maybe Caylee screamed in fear, cringed and whimpered for Cindy.

Maybe Caylee was saying things like, "No, mama hurt me" when she pulled back.

If Cindy saw that, she'd never believe Caylee fell off of a table. She'd go for custody for sure. Maybe Cindy would have KC arrested for abuse. People would know. Tony might know. Tony wouldn't marry her for sure.

Casey's head is throbbing. Caylee won't stop crying. "Shut up. Shut up. Shut up."

Caylee becomes hysterical. She writhes from her injury. KC can't let Cindy see that.

KC heads out to the shed for duct tape.

(Still think KC was calling for a babysitter or to smooth things over to keep a roof over her head. But, I can imagine other possibilities. None which disprove KC was a deliberate murderer, though.)

JMO

 

[ecs5298]

Both very good posts.
I am curious...do these experts/people lie all the time in normal day-to-day situations, do they just lie when they are experts for the defense or do they just lie when the defendant is guilty?

They lie when the check clears!

They're professional liars, not amateur liars. They lie for money.

 

[okiedokietoo]

They lie when the check clears!

They're professional liars, not amateur liars. They lie for money.

Thank You!

 

[ElaineG]

I initally agreed with my own theory number 1 post#221 about the babysitter, but as more testimony and evidence came out, you get a different perspective into the mind and personality of KC and the deep seeded jeaousy towards her own child and the anger and rage towards her mother, not to mention the fantasy make believe life she created that did not exist. I think there are several mental disorders at work here, sociapathic, delusions, pyschotic and pathological lying but she knows the difference between right and wrong so insanity would not work as a defense. I think the murder was intentional to rid her self of the competion for attention (jealousy) punish CA (rage and anger) and she envisioned a different "fantasy llife" (she mentioned somewhere about going to NY with Tony) which would not be possble with Caylee around and also he wanted a boy. This was a deliberate premediated act of murder, it is so hard to believe because no one especally a mother would want to believe that a woman could actually be capable of planning and deliberately killing thier own child.

 

[magic-cat]

That has been my theory.

But, I've been thinking, maybe the flurry of calls was because Casey had just lost it with Caylee and Caylee got hurt. Somebody yesterday suggested that Casey shook her. Maybe she did that. Or maybe she threw her against the wall causing internal injury.

Originally the calls could have been asking for help because Caylee was hurt. But, Casey's parents were doing tough love (or just busy at work) and did not respond. Which might have made Casey even more frustrated and furious.

Thoughts would have been racing through KC's mind. Thoughts like, "It's just like my mother to be hateful and not answer the phone. She makes me do everything. I can't call an ambulance...that's HER job. It's HER fault I got so mad. But, who will go to jail?"

Only maybe while Casey was fuming over her parent's not answering the phone and plotting the lie she was going to give should they call her back, Caylee was crying and not letting Casey think. Every time Casey approached Caylee maybe Caylee screamed in fear, cringed and whimpered for Cindy.

Maybe Caylee was saying things like, "No, mama hurt me" when she pulled back.

Casey's head was throbbing. Caylee would not stop crying. "Shut up."

Caylee becomes hysterical.

Casey heads out to the shed for duct tape.

(Still think KC was calling for a babysitter or to smooth things over to keep a roof over her head. But, I can imagine other possibilities. None which disprove KC was a deliberate murderer, though.)

JMO

Hi!

Unfortunately, George and Cindy would not have known "tough love" if it came up and showed them its birth certificate. What they were doing was the same battle of wills that they had always engaged in and it never worked before (as Casey continued to engage in the same behaviors) and it did not work this time either. Tough love is not about ignoring someones phone call. Tough love is about ANSWERING the call and saying no! Tough love requires courage and determination and a will forged in steel with LOVE as the guiding light. None of these are Anthony traits that I have seen demonstrated. Their guiding light seems to have always been control and power-never pure true love, which would have answered her calls and calmly explained to her why she needed to be responsible for her own life and that began with taking care of her own child. Tough love does not ignore-it plunges in head first and bravely refuses to yield. What they were doing was just the same old same old-negative reinforcement for negative behavior. It NEVER works.

 

[Jolynna]

Hi!

Unfortunately, George and Cindy would not have known "tough love" if it came up and showed them its birth certificate. What they were doing was the same battle of wills that they had always engaged in and it never worked before (as Casey continued to engage in the same behaviors) and it did not work this time either. Tough love is not about ignoring someones phone call. Tough love is about ANSWERING the call and saying no! Tough love requires courage and determination and a will forged in steel with LOVE as the guiding light. None of these are Anthony traits that I have seen demonstrated. Their guiding light seems to have always been control and power-never pure true love, which would have answered her calls and calmly explained to her why she needed to be responsible for her own life and that began with taking care of her own child. Tough love does not ignore-it plunges in head first and bravely refuses to yield. What they were doing was just the same old same old-negative reinforcement for negative behavior. It NEVER works.

I did not say they were doing good tough love.

Not answering the phone could have been avoidance or tit for tat being nasty.

If it was nastiness or even if KC just thought it was nastiness, that would be like poking a sharp stick into a raging bull if KC was already boiling over.

 

[weasel]

I believe the hair was matted due to the fact it had been "tied", as in a pony tail.

 

[Searchfortruth]

Maybe when Spitz saw Caylee's remains the duct tape was already removed, he can not continue to deny something that was photographed on the scene and in Dr. G's office. Last night on Geraldo, Dr Baden and and his Mrs were on saying the tape was all crumpled up.

I have a feeling "Mr. Spitz" knows good and well the ME sent every piece of duct tape off to the FBI for testing, no way would they hand that over to the defense. But, notice Mr. Spitz mentions nothing about why the duct tape wasn't there, he must have received a check from JB recently...hope it clears the bank.

 

[coloradoteacher]

I just want to point out the fact that a 3 year old child could let their parent put duct tape over their mouth without a struggle- there might not have been a struggle until she found she couldn't breathe. My son was not weary or had fears until he was 4 or so. If I would tell him to do something he would do it. CA could have just said we're going to play a game where you can't talk so I am going to out this over your mouth and Caylee could have easily agreed. She would have had no prior experiences (hopefully) that would make her fear her mouth being covered, her mother (which makes this betrayal the most sick) or duct tape. Just a thought.

 

[Lexington]

IMO KC could have rendered Caylee not able to struggle by lying on top of her with Caylee's hands pinned behind her back. KC would then have two free hands with which to apply the duct tape without too much difficulty, just Caylee's head would move from side to side, explaining why her hair was matted in the back. I still am not convinced that the chloroform played a part in Caylee's death. If it was used on a rag to knock Caylee out, why such a high concentration in the trunk upon testing. I think it was used in the clean-up of the car, when the clean-up crew took over and started a cover up immediately. Jeez - KC didn't even bother to throw out a plastic bag with TonE's garbage and the paper towel containing decomp material. KC being as lazy as she is is not going to "make" chloroform. I think it was used by GA as part of his car detailing passtime, unknown to KC.