Autopsy

[otto]

I agree if there had been previous domestic violence, Michelle would have been on her guard. Laci and Janet (another thread) didn't report any physical abuse to friends, family and LE, either.

I'm not sure what I think about the whole situation. It seems to me that if there was a lot of conflict in the marriage, Michelle would have been on her guard. From what we know of the crime scene, it doesn't seem like she was on her guard. Jason (or perhaps an unknown perp) didn't cut the phone line, so there was no concern about Michelle calling the police. She probably heard Jason come in the front door late in the evening and prior to her going to bed. Maybe he said that he had forgotten something so she went up to the bedroom to get it for him. I get the impression the entire attack took place in the bedroom, but we don't really know that yet. It seems unusual to run to the bedroom when being attacked because there's no way out ... unless there was a weapon or phone. If Michelle was on the main floor and attacked by a stranger, she would have run out the door, trying to draw the perp away from her daughter. If she were on the main floor and attacked by Jason, she would have run to the nearest phone. It seems to me that she was not expecting the attack because she was in a location where she didn't have a secondary exit and she didn't try to call for help in time to make the call.

 

[Samiya]

I'm not brave enough to experiment with plunging down a 100 foot embankment into a river to test this one out. The trooper who investigated the accident concluded it was an accident and reported she had a seatbelt on. Not enough for me to decide it but I do admit I have trouble swallowing a fair amount of the insider stories. JMO.

Please don't!!!!!! Lol it was bad enough picturing you choking yourself, lol.

The only 'insider' I'd believe in the case of the accident is the trooper. If Chelle was not wearing a seatbeat, I am darn sure he would've said so. He'd have shyteloads to answer for if he dared to lie about such an aspect of an accident.

The only coincidence in regards to the accident is that Chelle was pregnant with a boy. The rest is suspicious only because Chelle has been murdered 6 months later and was carrying another boy. Had Chelle not been murdered, no one would even be thinking of the accident........and that includes 'insiders'.

Sami.

 

[concernedperson]

Please don't!!!!!! Lol it was bad enough picturing you choking yourself, lol.

The only 'insider' I'd believe in the case of the accident is the trooper. If Chelle was not wearing a seatbeat, I am darn sure he would've said so. He'd have shyteloads to answer for if he dared to lie about such an aspect of an accident.

The only coincidence in regards to the accident is that Chelle was pregnant with a boy. The rest is suspicious only because Chelle has been murdered 6 months later and was carrying another boy. Had Chelle not been murdered, no one would even be thinking of the accident........and that includes 'insiders'.

Sami.

Honestly, I don't think it mattered whether it was a boy or a girl.I think JY didn't have enough time to react on MY's first pregnancy before it was a known fact and he hadn't assimilated it. Subsequent pregnancies were to be reckoned with in his mind. Insurance policies were the other. This guy wasn't about to raise children he had a plethera of enabling parents.

 

[nanandjim]

...What are the odds of no injury if not wearing a seat belt...

Didn't she lose the baby due to this accident? If so, then it was quite an accident IMO. If she lost the baby, I don't believe that she was wearing a seatbelt. Just my opinion, though.

I'm with you on not conducting a personal experiment.

 

[raisincharlie]

Didn't she lose the baby due to this accident? If so, then it was quite an accident IMO. If she lost the baby, I don't believe that she was wearing a seatbelt. Just my opinion, though.

I'm with you on not conducting a personal experiment.

Nanandim,

I don't know the timing on when she lost the baby - one of the insiders at CTV said it was about two weeks later and insists the accident had nothing to do with it, supposedly the baby just stopped growing. I don't know that I believe that or not. I haven't seen any reports that give a time line for When Michelle underwent her procedure to terminate this pregnancy.

Have you looked at the autopsy ? Is that scar noted on MY's stomach consistent with having lost this baby - as in the procedure was similar to or a C- section?

 

[raisincharlie]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Please don't!!!!!! Lol it was bad enough picturing you choking yourself, lol.

<snip>

Sami.

Glad I was by myself in a hotel room while trying that out! Would have made for an interesting You Tube though ! Maybe I should become a fledgling writer instead - ROFLMAO

My car control class starts tomorrow - maybe after I learn car control I'll try...I don't believe I'll ask my instructor - I'm trying to make a good impression :innocent:

 

[otto]

Nanandim,

I don't know the timing on when she lost the baby - one of the insiders at CTV said it was about two weeks later and insists the accident had nothing to do with it, supposedly the baby just stopped growing. I don't know that I believe that or not. I haven't seen any reports that give a time line for When Michelle underwent her procedure to terminate this pregnancy.

Have you looked at the autopsy ? Is that scar noted on MY's stomach consistent with having lost this baby - as in the procedure was similar to or a C- section?

Stillbirth would result in an abortion and the method would most likely be a D&C at 20 weeks: "91.3% percent of [abortions] were classified as having been done by "curettage" (suction-aspiration, D&C, D&E)" .(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion)
I don't think it is unusual that the procedure could be 2 weeks after the accident. It would take time after the accident to determine that the fetus was stillborn and to schedule a procedure. I believe there were earlier reports connecting the loss of the baby to the accident.

 

[otto]

I don't know if someone already brought this up (missed some of the posts) but was Jason perhaps planning to have a neat and tidy strangulation and then a "missing without a trace" scenario? Did Jason's first plan: the car accident, go wrong and then his second plan: missing woman, go wrong as well? If that's the case, he really is a loser. If he wanted to strangle Michelle so he could hide her body and she successfully fought him off, then he would have been mad as could be. That would explain the apparent rage killing. He may have been planning this for months and then had to admit to himself that he couldn't even pull off a murder. I noticed that the hyoid (is that spelled correctly?) wasn't broken, which is almost always broken in a successful strangulation. I'm just wondering if Jason's entire plan wasn't completely messed up from the beginning and he found himself looking at a really messy murder scene. That would account for Cassidy in the sense that he probably never intended for her to be wandering around her dead mom. He probably thought she'd be okay on her own for a couple of hours until Meredith found her.

 

[MREG2]

Nanandim,

I don't know the timing on when she lost the baby - one of the insiders at CTV said it was about two weeks later and insists the accident had nothing to do with it, supposedly the baby just stopped growing. I don't know that I believe that or not. I haven't seen any reports that give a time line for When Michelle underwent her procedure to terminate this pregnancy.

Have you looked at the autopsy ? Is that scar noted on MY's stomach consistent with having lost this baby - as in the procedure was similar to or a C- section?

I took that scar as in maybe she had a Section with Cassidy. It would not account for a D&C if she had one with the loss of the 2nd baby. But she wasn't that far into that 2nd pregnancy, was she? If not, then a D&C would have taken place or they would have let her try to pass the baby on her own.

 

[nanandjim]

I don't know if someone already brought this up (missed some of the posts) but was Jason perhaps planning to have a neat and tidy strangulation and then a "missing without a trace" scenario? ...

This is a very interesting theory. It makes sense to me. If this is true, would he have brought a "back up" weapon into the bedroom; or would he have picked up something from the bedroom to use to beat her to death?

 

[nanandjim]

Nanandim,

I don't know the timing on when she lost the baby - one of the insiders at CTV said it was about two weeks later and insists the accident had nothing to do with it, supposedly the baby just stopped growing. I don't know that I believe that or not. I haven't seen any reports that give a time line for When Michelle underwent her procedure to terminate this pregnancy.

Have you looked at the autopsy ? Is that scar noted on MY's stomach consistent with having lost this baby - as in the procedure was similar to or a C- section?

Hey RC. I think the timing of the baby's loss is coincidental. There's that word, again. I think that the accident did indeed have something to do with the loss of the second child. Of course, I would have to know how much of a jolt Michelle suffered and the seriousness of the accident. From what I envision, I think that the accident could have caused the death of the fetus.

I agree with MREG2 that the scar looked like a C-section scar from the birth of Cassidy. JMO, though.

 

[otto]

This is a very interesting theory. It makes sense to me. If this is true, would he have brought a "back up" weapon into the bedroom; or would he have picked up something from the bedroom to use to beat her to death?

I think that if my theory has some truth to it, then he would have brought a backup weapon. He had already failed once, he was obviously too weak or scared to strangle Michelle with his own hands but he sure didn't want to fail in this attempt if he wanted to get away with it. I think he had a plan A and B in place this time.

 

[raisincharlie]

I took that scar as in maybe she had a Section with Cassidy. It would not account for a D&C if she had one with the loss of the 2nd baby. But she wasn't that far into that 2nd pregnancy, was she? If not, then a D&C would have taken place or they would have let her try to pass the baby on her own.

Thanks MREG2. I "think" if I recall correctly Michelle was also about 20 weeks pregnant at the time of the accident but not sure if that is correct. I can't find the link I'm looking for that relates to the accident. Will look a bit more.

 

[panthera]

I don't know if someone already brought this up (missed some of the posts) but was Jason perhaps planning to have a neat and tidy strangulation and then a "missing without a trace" scenario? Did Jason's first plan: the car accident, go wrong and then his second plan: missing woman, go wrong as well? If that's the case, he really is a loser. If he wanted to strangle Michelle so he could hide her body and she successfully fought him off, then he would have been mad as could be. That would explain the apparent rage killing. He may have been planning this for months and then had to admit to himself that he couldn't even pull off a murder. I noticed that the hyoid (is that spelled correctly?) wasn't broken, which is almost always broken in a successful strangulation. I'm just wondering if Jason's entire plan wasn't completely messed up from the beginning and he found himself looking at a really messy murder scene. That would account for Cassidy in the sense that he probably never intended for her to be wandering around her dead mom. He probably thought she'd be okay on her own for a couple of hours until Meredith found her.

Sounds to me like he was trying to add another element of Laci's case to his own if that was his intention. I definitely don't think this was planned as a bludgeoning since the strangulation was attempted, so yes, something definitely didn't go right for the "perp". I agree too with the rage that would've occurred if he'd tried to kill her in the accident and failed, then tried to strangle her, and failed.

 

[MREG2]

Thanks MREG2. I "think" if I recall correctly Michelle was also about 20 weeks pregnant at the time of the accident but not sure if that is correct. I can't find the link I'm looking for that relates to the accident. Will look a bit more.

Your welcome. I'm a pro on Sections, will be having my 3rd one in May.

20 weeks at the time of the accident too? Hmmm.... Guess that would make sense that she was in the 2nd trimester for them to know that that baby was a boy. But for some reason I just thought she was still in early pregnancy. Silly me.... :blushing:

 

[Taximom]

I'm still trying to reconcile the injuries on her hands vs. the head wounds.

Sorry if this has been brought up before but what do you guys think about her being down on the ground (facing down) trying to protect the back of her head with her hands behind her head.

Seems like most of the injuries to her hands are on the left hand and the injuries (striations) seem to go the same direction as those to her head.

Lately, MY has been on my mind as I drift off to sleep, especially after seeing this autopsy report and seeing the rage involved in her murder.

It's also interesting to me that there are no wounds to her stomach area. No signs of being kicked there or beaten there. Interesting w/the pregnancy and all.

I wonder what kind of shoes he wore as I think he could have kicked her while she was down. Maybe that's how her teeth were knocked out. Some tennis shoes have striations on the toes.

Just messing around with what we have which isn't much! Seems like news in this case happens on Fridays, so I'm hoping for something to happen soon!

 

[happy2bn10ec]

I'm still trying to reconcile the injuries on her hands vs. the head wounds.

Sorry if this has been brought up before but what do you guys think about her being down on the ground (facing down) trying to protect the back of her head with her hands behind her head.

Seems like most of the injuries to her hands are on the left hand and the injuries (striations) seem to go the same direction as those to her head.

Lately, MY has been on my mind as I drift off to sleep, especially after seeing this autopsy report and seeing the rage involved in her murder.

It's also interesting to me that there are no wounds to her stomach area. No signs of being kicked there or beaten there. Interesting w/the pregnancy and all.

I wonder what kind of shoes he wore as I think he could have kicked her while she was down. Maybe that's how her teeth were knocked out. Some tennis shoes have striations on the toes.

Just messing around with what we have which isn't much! Seems like news in this case happens on Fridays, so I'm hoping for something to happen soon!

I was thinking the same thing this morning about something happening today or this weekend. I bet I check in here at least 25 times a day to see if there is any news. I don't see how her family is dealing with this. I just keep thinking if something doesn't happen soon, as in an arrest, it never will.

 

[nanandjim]

I'm still trying to reconcile the injuries on her hands vs. the head wounds.

Sorry if this has been brought up before but what do you guys think about her being down on the ground (facing down) trying to protect the back of her head with her hands behind her head....

You know, I was also perplexed as there were no injuries to the palms of the hands, were there? So, I guess, after his strangling attempt failed, he must have hit her hard with something, knocking her to the ground. Then, she must have tried to cover her head as he beat her to death.

I sure hope that no news is good news in this case. I hope that the police are working silently but feverishly to bring the murderer to justice.

 

[Scout]

Nanandim,

I don't know the timing on when she lost the baby - one of the insiders at CTV said it was about two weeks later and insists the accident had nothing to do with it, supposedly the baby just stopped growing. I don't know that I believe that or not. I haven't seen any reports that give a time line for When Michelle underwent her procedure to terminate this pregnancy.

Have you looked at the autopsy ? Is that scar noted on MY's stomach consistent with having lost this baby - as in the procedure was similar to or a C- section?

Michelle was reported to have been 20 weeks into her pregnancy when she was killed. The fetal measurements recorded in the autopsy report are consistent with that gestational age. Assuming the 20 weeks is accurate, Michelle would have conceived the child on or about June 30. And the beginning of her LMP -- or in this case, the date of the therapeutic abortion -- would have fallen two weeks earlier, around June 16, give or take a few days. The car accident was on May 29 -- a little over two weeks prior to the pregnancy termination.

The scar is consistent with C-section.

Sorry if this has already been answered.

 

[raisincharlie]

Michelle was reported to have been 20 weeks into her pregnancy when she was killed. The fetal measurements recorded in the autopsy report are consistent with that gestational age. Assuming the 20 weeks is accurate, Michelle would have conceived the child on or about June 30. And the beginning of her LMP -- or in this case, the date of the therapeutic abortion -- would have fallen two weeks earlier, around June 16, give or take a few days. The car accident was on May 29 -- a little over two weeks prior to the pregnancy termination.

The scar is consistent with C-section.

Sorry if this has already been answered.

Scout,

We are trying to recall how far along Michelle was when the car accident occurred. Do you recall hearing ? For some reason I have it in my head she was just about as far along then. I can't find a link which substantiates this and therefore cannot decide if I am loosing my mind or not. Any recollection you have would be helpful. Thus the question about the C -section - would this have been from Cassidy or the baby lost after the wreck ? TIA