AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #7

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I have to come back to the timeline created and look for any window of opportunity or discrepancy. I am just bringing this forward for reference. Is there ay new info we could add now that we have seen the LE report?

Original poster is Mamacita, thanks!

Saturday, June 15th:
10:00pm (Friday night) – 5:00am (Saturday morning) – Length of the party at Adrienne’s apartment (17).

2:30am – “Last seen by roommates” when she left to go to boyfriend’s home (1). Her apartment is on Brown & Hardy (as relayed to us by WS members Goblinsolo & 2Hip2BSquare, found by watching news videos and doing a visual of the apartments in the area) previous reports reported her apartment as being on Ash Avenue (6) *There is a discrepancy here as there was a roommate that did see her after the argument with the boyfriend occurred and Adrienne returned home. Time has been updated to reflect time of 2:30am, as indicated on Nancy Grace show. The boyfriend told LE that Adrienne was upset with him for talking to other people at the party and not paying enough attention to her. He said Adrienne asked him to leave but later followed him to his car and said she wanted him to drive her to Scottsdale so they could talk more. The argument continued during the drive and at his home (14). Arteaga said they continued to argue about their relationship, even when they arrived at his house, police said. Arteaga said during their argument inside the house, he stepped out to get some air and when he came back, Salinas was gone, police said. Arteaga said he found Salinas walking toward Indian School Road and told her he would take her home (16). So he gave her a ride to 5th Street & Mill Avenue where she jumped out of his car and walked the rest of the way home (14).

3:22am - Adrienne’s boyfriend called one of her roommates to tell the roommate that Adrienne was walking home so she could meet her (15). The roommate, Rebecca Flores, told LE she went out on her bike to look for Adrienne but didn’t find her until she (Rebecca) returned back to the apartment.

3:30am – Rebecca said that Adrienne was “calmly upset” over the argument with her boyfriend (13) also reported in source (17). After Adrienne & Rebecca spoke outside on the grass, Adrienne went upstairs to her room and packed a small bag but Rebecca didn’t see Adrienne leave (13). Adrienne told her roommates that she was going to go back to the boyfriend’s home & she packed an overnight bag (17).

3:35 - 3:40am – According to police timeline, this is the time that Adrienne packed her bag and drove away. Two people reported seeing her drive away from her apartment at 3:40 (17).

3:44am – Police received a 911 call that Adrienne’s car had hit a median at Ash & Rio Salado Parkway. Passerby saw car driving erratically behind her, so she moved over and let the car pass. (4) The witness said the car passed her near the Rio Salado Parkway and struck a curb, flattening both the driver's-side tires.. the car sped off before the witness could check on the driver (13). Adrienne’s car was then driven less than a mile to Brown and Roosevelt. Police say that from there, she walked a ¼ mile back to her apartment where she changed clothes, leaving behind her wallet and keys. (9) Witness says “they” in her 911 call. Operator asked how many people she thought was in the car and the witness said she thought there were two, she thought she saw one in the passenger seat. (10).

APPROX 3:47am – Adrienne’s car could have reached the location it was parked after being crashed. The distance from the crash site to the abandoned vehicle is .5 miles. (18)

APPROX 3:54am – This is about the time that Adrienne could have arrived at her house after parking her crashed car. Walking from the abandoned car location to her apartment is .4 miles and would take about 7 minutes to walk. (18)

4:10-4:17am – Adrienne’s cell phone called the boyfriend 11 times, but he didn’t answer. (4 & 17)

4:10-4:50am – Per NG show, there were 32 calls from Adrienne to her BF during this time. See GGE’s transcriptions. BF tells LE he was sleeping during this time (17).
[unknown time] Adrienne called the cab company and it’s believed that she left a message and dispatch called her back. See 4:23 time. (NG show).

4:23-4:26am – It was originally believed that Adrienne called the cab company requesting to be picked up at AMPM. Nearest driver was about 20 minutes away. Cab driver’s name is Tom (11). Time of call was 3 minutes, according to NG show. Cab driver’s father changed information and said that the 4:23 call was from taxi dispatch to Adrienne’s phone. Per cab driver’s father, Adrienne’s call could have come in to the taxi company before then and she left a message, so dispatch called her back at 4:23, the call was then a 3 minute call (NG show). Police timeline says that she called for a cab at 4:23 (17).

4:30am – Person driving to work found naked woman’s body in the street. Not sure if this is related. Near McClintock and Baseline. (2) – this woman has since been identified and her boyfriend has been arrested for murder. Still unknown if related to Adrienne’s disappearance, but I’m keeping this on the timeline just in case, because of the timing.

4:37am – Cab Company calls Adrienne back, call lasts 3 minutes (NG show timeline).

4:43am – Text sent from Adrienne’s phone to boyfriend’s phone said she was going to his house. (17)

4:52am – A slender woman was seen in the west parking lot of O’Reilly’s Auto Parts on the surveillance cameras . Address is 1002 W. University Ave. (12) It has not been confirmed whether or not the woman seen is Adrienne.

4:53am – Cab driver called Adrienne and she told him that she was on her way there. According to police timeline released by MSM, the cab driver called Adrienne at this time when he couldn’t find her at the convenience store at Hardy & University. She says she’s on her way. (17)

4:53am – WS member “Cab Guy” stated in a post that Adrienne called the cabbie (not the other way around) (22)

4:54am – A dark 4 door vehicle was seen heading northbound in the O’Reillys parking lot 2 minutes later on the surveillance cameras (12).

5:00am – Party at Adrienne’s apartment ended (17).

5:00am – Last seen near Brown & Roosevelt streets. (3) Another reports states last seen at this location at 4:30am (7) -- not sure who she was last seen BY, or if this goes off pings, but this is also the same location her car was found.

5:00am - AMPM surveillance released shows timestamps of cabbie in front of AMPM (23)

APPROX 5:01am – approximate time she could have left her apartment, if we’re to take her “I’ll be there in a minute” call literally. Distance from her apartment to AMPM is .3 miles, or 6 minutes walking. (18)

5:01am – WS member “Cab Guy” stated in a post that raw video showed Tom arriving at 5:01am. (22)

5:04am – Cab driver (Tom) called Adrienne to make sure she was headed to the gas station. (11)

5:05am - Cab driver (Tom) called Adrienne to make sure she was headed to the gas station (again). (11) Previous reports indicated: Police said Adrienne called a cab company, but the cabbie couldn’t find her at a Tempe convenience store. (4) “Salinas asked for a driver to meet her at the AMPM gas station at the intersection of Hardy & University. Investigators told CBS 5 she never made it there” (5). LE saw surveillance of cab driver at AMPM but there was no sign of Adrienne there. LE subsequently questioned the cab driver and searched his home. AMPM is less than ¼ mile from Adrienne’s apartment. (9)

5:05am – WS member “Cab Guy” stated in a post that Tom called Adrienne at this time to tell her that he was almost there (21).

5:06am – Adrienne called the cab driver (Tom) saying she’d be there in a minute.

5:07am – Cab driver (Tom) called Adrienne again, looking for her, but the phone went to voicemail. (11) Her phone was turned off (1) or died (8).

Sunday, June 16th:
2:00pm – AS’s father found her car two blocks away from her apartment. (8)
Her Father called LE that afternoon (8), after going to her apartment to check on her and finding the door unlocked. He was very concerned because she hadn’t called him for Father’s Day (20).

Other known info:
According to news reports, BF & Cabbie have both been cleared by LE (17).
Per Admin Tricia: Also Sargent Pooley wanted me to reiterate the following: The Cab Driver's story matches up with his GPS, his cellphone pings, and everything else he has given the police. He did not go anywhere that night other than what he told the police. His GPS backs up his story as do the cellphone pings. While no one is ever cleared the Cab Driver is not high on their list since his story checks out. (19)
After leaving her disabled car, she walked less than a ¼ mile to her home and changed clothes and left again, leaving her wallet and keys behind. (9)
LE has questioned the cab driver and searched his home. Say he’s not a suspect at this time. (9) LE also took a DNA sample from cab driver (11).
LE did a sweep of Tempe Town Lake and found nothing. (9)
LE says that BF has been cleared and has fully cooperated. (10)
Cab procedures: "In a place like this, they would get out, look around, make sure the person wasn't in the store," Simon said. He said his son did just that but never saw Salinas. (11)
Francisco Arteaga told police Salinas was upset with him after a party at her apartment because she felt he “was not paying enough attention to her,” according to the report. (13)
Adrienne has a small dog that she never leaves home without bringing it or making sure someone will care for it while she’s gone (13).
The police report said Adrienne had no source of income and that her father gave her money for her living expenses, including $10 for gas a few days before she vanished. (14)
Adrienne only had one set of car keys for her car (NG show)
No one saw her return to the apartment after her accident (NG show).
Sgt. Pooley said that there were things on the passenger seat and back seats that indicate to them that there was only one person in the car, the driver (NG show).
News footage of BF: http://www.azcentral.com/community/t...an-reward.html
News footage of roommate: http://www.kpho.com/story/22676371/t...d-a-half-later

1: http://www.azcentral.com/community/t...nclick_check=1
2: http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/22...n-tempe-street
3: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...#ixzz2WWHosmWu
4: http://www.azcentral.com/community/t...nues-abrk.html
5: http://www.kpho.com/story/22627002/m...medium=twitter
6: https://photos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...08049287_n.jpg
7: http://www.tempe.gov/index.aspx?page=31&recordid=1579
8: http://www.azcentral.com/community/t...an-reward.html
9: http://www.kpho.com/story/22687012/m...er-safe-return
10: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...ing-Tempe-girl
11: http://kpho.membercenter.worldnow.co...een-speaks-out
12: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3618785.html
13: http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region...with-boyfriend
14: http://www.azcentral.com/community/t...ily-vigil.html
15: http://www.azfamily.com/news/Missing...215943951.html
16: http://www.kpho.com/story/22869930/p...-disappearance
17: http://www.azcentral.com/community/t...mpe-woman.html
18: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #4 19: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #4 20: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/07...ing-tempe-teen
21: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #4 22: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #4 23:
Cab driver ruled out as suspect in Tempe teen's disappearance - YouTube


***PLEASE NOTE THAT ALL TIMES IN PURPLE ARE APPROXIMATE TIMES, GOING OFF OF DISTANCES FROM VARIOUS POINTS AND BASING THOSE TIMES OFF OF TIMES PROVIDED TO US FROM LE/MSM. THEY ARE NOT TO BE MISTAKEN AS FACTUAL TIMES, BUT MERELY AN AID TO UNDERSTANDING APPROXIMATE TIMES THAT THESE THINGS COULD HAVE OCCURRED. ALL PURPLE TIMES ARE IMO. TIMES IN ORANGE ARE UN-VERIFIED TIMES PROVIDED BY SOMEONE WHO HAS YET TO BE VERIFIED ON WS.***
__________________

jmo
 
Has it ever been reported as to what position the driver's seat was in when her car was found by her father/police? Can anyone help me out? I just can't remember if that was addressed.

EmmyB - IIRC, during the interview on the Nancy Grace show, Detective Pooley stated there were items in the front passenger seat, the rear seat and that the driver's seat had NOT been adjusted; the combination of which led them to believe she was driving and was alone. I will try to snip that footage for you.

Edit: Here ya go. :)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1307/23/ng.01.html

CASAREZ: OK, I see a red flag right there because when Adrienne left her two female roommates, she was driving alone in her car.

I want to go out to Sergeant Michael Pooley from the Tempe Police Department, who is joining us tonight. Sergeant, thank you very much for coming on.

Do you believe two people were in the car at the time that 911 call was made?

SGT. MICHAEL POOLEY, TEMPE POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): You know what we`ve done? We`ve gone out and talked to that young lady again. She said in her second interview that she`s not sure what she saw, exactly. When we found the car and we started to do a search of the car, from all indication, it looks like she was the only one in it, with things that were on the passenger seat, things that were in the back passenger seat.

If there had been somebody sitting in there, we think we would have been able to tell if somebody else had been in there. But all indication is that she was alone in that car right now.
 
Now that we know the time stamp was off by 20 minutes in the Oriely's video footage, I wonder if the AMPM video time stamp was determined to be incorrect. I tried to bring the still images of the cabbie at AMPM over but I do not know how so this may not be effective.

first timestamp of cabbie pulling up in front of AMPM. time is 5:00:05
http://imageshack.com/a/img194/3621/ytcs.jpg



second timestamp of cabbie stopped outside the front of AMPM. time is 5:00:17:
http://imageshack.com/a/img706/5561/j9u3.jpg



third timestamp of cabbie, appears to be leaving. time is 5:00:28:
http://imageshack.com/a/img62/9520/jiam.jpg


jmo




__________________
 
Has it ever been reported as to what position the driver's seat was in when her car was found by her father/police? Can anyone help me out? I just can't remember if that was addressed.

Page 6 of GOR: Off. Michelle Solmen, Jun 16, Par. 2 ">entire pararaph<"
Page 19 " ": Off. Brian Ornelas, Jun 17, Par. 4 "...at which time the steering wheel had to be straightened out and the emergency brake engaged......"
Page #'s do not include the subject pages.
 
Now that we know the time stamp was off by 20 minutes in the Oriely's video footage, I wonder if the AMPM video time stamp was determined to be incorrect. I tried to bring the still images of the cabbie at AMPM over but I do not know how so this may not be effective.

first timestamp of cabbie pulling up in front of AMPM. time is 5:00:05
http://imageshack.com/a/img194/3621/ytcs.jpg



second timestamp of cabbie stopped outside the front of AMPM. time is 5:00:17:
http://imageshack.com/a/img706/5561/j9u3.jpg



third timestamp of cabbie, appears to be leaving. time is 5:00:28:
http://imageshack.com/a/img62/9520/jiam.jpg


jmo

I'm sure that AMPM would have notified LE if there was a discrepancy. A lot of your commercial surveillance equipment uploads the video feed to a separate IP address on the Web for storage and future access. The main unit in the store can be set to different loop cycles for over-writing on it's internal hard drive...blah, blah, blah. The point being that off site IP's time stamps are synched with the Web. If you have this type of set up, you would pull the video from the IP addy, download to a disc, and the correct time would be there. That sure didn't help!
With the security set up I have on my property, I don't understand why these big franchises can't afford to go "big" with the HD, Zeiss lenses, IR, RBG color, and a range of more than 20 feet :facepalm: JMO
 
I'm going over and over and over this report and feel the need to make some notes. Where better place than here?

p9 - "RICARDO told me that he spoke to the roommates [...] he was told that ADRIENNE left in her car after a fight with her boyfriend on 06-15-2013 at approximately 0200 hours" (2am).

p.11 "I interviewed DUGGAN who reported that on 06-15-2013, at approximately 0230 hours [2:30am] ADRIENNE got into a vebral argument with her on-and-off boyfriend, FRANCISCO ARTEAGO, while he was driving her back in his vehicle [blacked out] and ADRIENNE exited the vehicle at 5th St. and Mill Ave. in Tempe.

DUGGAN said that ARTEAGA told her this over the phone
, but DUGGAN was in their shared bedroom with MARK JENNINGS [...] and did not see ADRIENNE come home initially.

DUGGAN said that when she came downstairs with JENNINGS at approximately 0300 hours [3am] , she saw ADRIENNE walk upstairs and she appeared to have been crying and to be upset. DUGGAN said that she saw ADRIENNE leave with a bag and heard her car start after she left."

p.11. "DUGGAN said that [...] ADRIENNE and ARTEAGA have had verbal arguments in the past, but never to the degree that ADRIENNE was upset that night"

p.11 - "FLORES [...] reported that on 06-15-2013 at approximately 0230 hours [2:30am] ARTEAGA called her to tell her that ADRIENNE had gotten out of his vehicle at Mill Ave. and 5th St. and was walking to their apartment at 812 W. Brown St., Tempe.

FLORES told me that she went on her bicycle to find ADRIENNE, but did not find her until she returned to the apartment and they spoke in the grass yard of the apartment. ADRIENNE was "calmly upset", meaning that she was distraught but not crying when FLORES spoke to her."

p.11 - "FLORES said that DUGGAN had the door to the bedroom locked, so ADRIENNE sat downstairs and waited for DUGGAN to leave the room and when she did ADRIENNE went immediately upstairs to their room."

p.12 - "ARTEAGO told me that at approximately 0230 hours [2:30am] on 06-15-2013, he and ADRIENNE were at [blacked out] when ADRIENNE had got upset with him because he was talking to other people at their apartment party and was "not paying enough attention to her".

p.12 - "ARTEAGA said that he stopped at a red light at 5th St. and Mill Ave. in Tempe when ADRIENNE opened the passenger door and got out of the car to start walking again.

ARTEAGA saiid that she left her cell phone on the passenger seat of his car, so he pulled his vehicle on the side of the road off 5th St., got out of the vehicle to hand her the cell phone and allowed her to keep walking toward her apartment alone.

ARTEAGA called FLORES on the phone to notify her that ADRIENNE was walking toward the apartment so that FLORES could meet her. ARTEAGA showed me his cell phone record with a call placed to FLORES at approximately 0322 hours [3:22am]."

p.14 - "I investigated the call for service of asingle car collision reported at Rio Salado Pkwy and Ash Ave in Tempe from 0344 hours [3:44am] on 06-15-2013.


-----

ok so, first off RICARDO says the roommates told him that she left in her car at about 2am.

Then DUGGAN says that ADRIENNE got into a fight with ARTEAGA in his car around 2:30am and that was when Adrienne got out at 5th and Mill, and she further states that ARTEAGA told her this on the phone but she was in the shared bedroom with MARK JENNINGS and didn't see ADRIENNE get in.

WHEN did he tell her this on the phone? Her statement to LE suggests that ARTEAGA did not just call FLORES that night but also DUGGAN, unless I'm reading it wrong.

DUGGAN says when she comes out of the bedroom with JENNINGS it is about 3am, and ADRIENNE immediately went up there when DUGGAN came down, and DUGGAN said ADRIENNE looked like she was very upset and had been crying. In fact, DUGGAN also says that they (ADRIENNE and ARTEAGA) have fought before but she had never seen ADRIENNE as upset as she was at that time.

However, FLORES says that ARTEAGA called her around 2:30am to say ADRIENNE was walking to the apartment, and further states that when she found ADRIENNE back at the apertment and they spoke in the grass in their yard, ADRIENNE was "calmly upset" which was specifically characterized as upset but NOT crying.

This suggests that ADRIENNE became more upset than DUGGAN had ever seen her at some point between when FLORES saw her outside shortly after 2:30am and when DUGGAN saw her going up to their shared bedroom around 3am IMO.

BUT!!!!!!!!

ARTEAGA showed LE his phone that showed he called FLORES at 3:22am to say that ADRIENNE was walking home and to ask FLORES to go meet her, so how could EVERYONE be saying that it was around 2:30 when she got out of the car at 5th and Mill, and how could DUGGAN accurately say that it was around 3am when she came downstairs with MARK JENNINGS and ADRIENNE went up to pack her bag before leaving again in her car? At 3am, she was still 22 minutes away from getting out of ARTEAGA's car and ARTEAGA calling FLORES to alert her IF ARGEAGA's story/times are the acccurate ones.

Further, If ARTEAGA called FLORES at 3:22 to say that ADRIENNE Was walking home, and then ADRIENNE walked to the apartment, conversed with FLORES outside, sat down inside to wait for DUGGAN and JENNINGS to come downstairs, then went up to pack a bag and THEN left in her car, could she have realistically been in the accident just 22 minutes later at 3:44am?


I have so much going on in my mind, I'll just post this for now before I lose everything somehow and then go on from there, hope you all don't mind.
 
IT astonishes me how much media gets wrong. They all got the same copy of the police report that we did, yet no timelines the media has come up with have been anywhere near the actual ones from the report. (at the risk of being accused of exaggerating, ok maybe they were NEAR the actual ones. But I prefer.. THE ACTUAL ONES! so, I'm glad to have them now. JMO)

*shakes head*
 
JMO I don't think most of them had any clue as to the actual times, until they checked phones, etc...and I do think 22 minutes is enough time to get her stuff, and have the crash. Apparently she was driving very fast, and she probably grabbed her stuff in maybe two minutes. JMO
 
I'm going over and over and over this report and feel the need to make some notes. Where better place than here?

p9 - "RICARDO told me that he spoke to the roommates [...] he was told that ADRIENNE left in her car after a fight with her boyfriend on 06-15-2013 at approximately 0200 hours" (2am).

p.11 "I interviewed DUGGAN who reported that on 06-15-2013, at approximately 0230 hours [2:30am] ADRIENNE got into a vebral argument with her on-and-off boyfriend, FRANCISCO ARTEAGO, while he was driving her back in his vehicle [blacked out] and ADRIENNE exited the vehicle at 5th St. and Mill Ave. in Tempe.

DUGGAN said that ARTEAGA told her this over the phone
, but DUGGAN was in their shared bedroom with MARK JENNINGS [...] and did not see ADRIENNE come home initially.

DUGGAN said that when she came downstairs with JENNINGS at approximately 0300 hours [3am] , she saw ADRIENNE walk upstairs and she appeared to have been crying and to be upset. DUGGAN said that she saw ADRIENNE leave with a bag and heard her car start after she left."

p.11. "DUGGAN said that [...] ADRIENNE and ARTEAGA have had verbal arguments in the past, but never to the degree that ADRIENNE was upset that night"

p.11 - "FLORES [...] reported that on 06-15-2013 at approximately 0230 hours [2:30am] ARTEAGA called her to tell her that ADRIENNE had gotten out of his vehicle at Mill Ave. and 5th St. and was walking to their apartment at 812 W. Brown St., Tempe.

FLORES told me that she went on her bicycle to find ADRIENNE, but did not find her until she returned to the apartment and they spoke in the grass yard of the apartment. ADRIENNE was "calmly upset", meaning that she was distraught but not crying when FLORES spoke to her."

p.11 - "FLORES said that DUGGAN had the door to the bedroom locked, so ADRIENNE sat downstairs and waited for DUGGAN to leave the room and when she did ADRIENNE went immediately upstairs to their room."

p.12 - "ARTEAGO told me that at approximately 0230 hours [2:30am] on 06-15-2013, he and ADRIENNE were at [blacked out] when ADRIENNE had got upset with him because he was talking to other people at their apartment party and was "not paying enough attention to her".

p.12 - "ARTEAGA said that he stopped at a red light at 5th St. and Mill Ave. in Tempe when ADRIENNE opened the passenger door and got out of the car to start walking again.

ARTEAGA saiid that she left her cell phone on the passenger seat of his car, so he pulled his vehicle on the side of the road off 5th St., got out of the vehicle to hand her the cell phone and allowed her to keep walking toward her apartment alone.

ARTEAGA called FLORES on the phone to notify her that ADRIENNE was walking toward the apartment so that FLORES could meet her. ARTEAGA showed me his cell phone record with a call placed to FLORES at approximately 0322 hours [3:22am]."

p.14 - "I investigated the call for service of asingle car collision reported at Rio Salado Pkwy and Ash Ave in Tempe from 0344 hours [3:44am] on 06-15-2013.


-----

ok so, first off RICARDO says the roommates told him that she left in her car at about 2am.

Then DUGGAN says that ADRIENNE got into a fight with ARTEAGA in his car around 2:30am and that was when Adrienne got out at 5th and Mill, and she further states that ARTEAGA told her this on the phone but she was in the shared bedroom with MARK JENNINGS and didn't see ADRIENNE get in.

WHEN did he tell her this on the phone? Her statement to LE suggests that ARTEAGA did not just call FLORES that night but also DUGGAN, unless I'm reading it wrong.

DUGGAN says when she comes out of the bedroom with JENNINGS it is about 3am, and ADRIENNE immediately went up there when DUGGAN came down, and DUGGAN said ADRIENNE looked like she was very upset and had been crying. In fact, DUGGAN also says that they have fought before but she had never seen ADRIENNE as upset as she was at that time.

However, FLORES says that ARTEAGA called her around 2:30am to say ADRIENNE was walking to the apartment, and further states that when she found ADRIENNE back at the apertment and they spoke in the grass in their yard, ADRIENNE was "calmly upset" which was specifically characterized as upset but NOT crying.

This suggests that ADRIENNE became more upset than DUGGAN had ever seen her at some point between when FLORES saw her outside shortly after 2:30am and when DUGGAN saw her going up to their shared bedroom around 3am IMO.

BUT!!!!!!!!

ARTEAGA showed LE his phone that showed he called FLORES at 3:22am to say that ADRIENNE was walking home and to ask FLORES to go meet her, so how could EVERYONE be saying that it was around 2:30 when she got out of the car at 5th and Mill, and how could DUGGAN accurately say that it was around 3am when she came downstairs with MARK JENNINGS and ADRIENNE went up to pack her bag before leaving again in her car? At 3am, she was still 22 minutes away from getting out of ARTEAGA's car and ARTEAGA calling FLORES to alert her IF ARGEAGA's story/times are the acccurate ones.

Further, If ARTEAGA called FLORES at 3:22 to say that ADRIENNE Was walking home, and then ADRIENNE walked to the apartment, conversed with FLORES outside, sat down inside to wait for DUGGAN and JENNINGS to come downstairs, then went up to pack a bag and THEN left in her car, could she have realistically been in the accident just 22 minutes later at 3:44am?


I have so much going on in my mind, I'll just post this for now before I lose everything somehow and then go on from there, hope you all don't mind.

And............that was my issue with this case to begin with. When Adrienne follows BF outside, the whole time line becomes discombobulated after that. When you start putting all the statements on the LE report, the statements in MSM, there are many areas of overlap. It's like you need to pull up a graph chart......which actually wouldn't be a bad idea. And giving the "subjects" (per the GOF) the excuse of being drunk won't fly with me because they get pretty specific. "grass yard", "door locked", "calmly upset", "crying and to be upset", "hand her the cell phone", "to the degree Adrienne was upset that night", etc.
JMO
 
Agreed bermina. I'm willing to say that nobody knew the right time because they were partying and not paying attention, which is fine, but FLORES said that he called her at 2:30 and that means she has a phone. I know LE checked ARTEAGA's phone and verified he called FLORES at 3:22am, but there's no way to know WHY he called her at that time.
I would like to presume LE also checked her phone and substantiated the fact he also called her at 2:30am, which is how I presume she got her idea of what time things actually occurred. Seems standard to check your phone when you're basing a statement to police on the time of a phone call to begin with, IMO....
So why'd he call her twice, if he did?

Or i can even presume she was mistaken about what time he called her, and presume that she did get out of his car at 322, and did walk back to the apartment by say 3:25 and then talk to FLORES outside until say maybe 3:30 and then went inside and sat down to wait for DUGGAN until like 3:35 and then went upstairs and packed and then left again by 3: 40 like LE has said two independant witnesses saw her do, then I suppose as fast as she was driving she could've gotten into that accident at 3:44am...... if those times work for the area....

but then I ask myself if the girls were just not paying attention to the clocks and were interviewed separately and whatever, why did they both say that adrienne got out of the car on mill and fifth at precisely 2:30am? why not say they weren't sure? why didn't one say one time and one another time? why did they both say exactly 2:30am if it didn't happen that way, and if the reason why they're incorrect is because they weren't really paying attention? why not just tell LE "I don't remember"? Unless you have reason to think you DO remember, in which case you'd say so, and if you AND your roommate both somehow randomly recollect the same time then... well I hesitate to ignore it, JMO

So many questions to think about.

Way better than having nothing to work with, and no questions IMO
 
We have to remember that as of now, LE said the boyfriend was cleared, I believe.
 
Agreed bermina. I'm willing to say that nobody knew the right time because they were partying and not paying attention, which is fine, but FLORES said that he called her at 2:30 and that means she has a phone. I know LE checked ARTEAGA's phone and verified he called FLORES at 3:22am, but there's no way to know WHY he called her at that time.
I would like to presume LE also checked her phone and substantiated the fact he also called her at 2:30am, which is how I presume she got her idea of what time things actually occurred. Seems standard to check your phone when you're basing a statement to police on the time of a phone call to begin with, IMO....
So why'd he call her twice, if he did?

Or i can even presume she was mistaken about what time he called her, and presume that she did get out of his car at 322, and did walk back to the apartment by say 3:25 and then talk to FLORES outside until say maybe 3:30 and then went inside and sat down to wait for DUGGAN until like 3:35 and then went upstairs and packed and then left again by 3: 40 like LE has said two independant witnesses saw her do, then I suppose as fast as she was driving she could've gotten into that accident at 3:44am...... if those times work for the area....

but then I ask myself if the girls were just not paying attention to the clocks and were interviewed separately and whatever, why did they both say that adrienne got out of the car on mill and fifth at precisely 2:30am? why not say they weren't sure? why didn't one say one time and one another time? why did they both say exactly 2:30am if it didn't happen that way, and if the reason why they're incorrect is because they weren't really paying attention? why not just tell LE "I don't remember"? Unless you have reason to think you DO remember, in which case you'd say so, and if you AND your roommate both somehow randomly recollect the same time then... well I hesitate to ignore it, JMO

So many questions to think about.

Way better than having nothing to work with, and no questions IMO

Now you know my initial confusion and why I "think" things went sideways after Adrienne left with BF. If it were me, I would have replied "I don't know, I was partying and wasn't checking the time." Odd that other cell phones weren't shown to LE when statements were given to verify calls and call times?
JMO, OMO, MOO
 
We have to remember that as of now, LE said the boyfriend was cleared, I believe.

But..........can we quote from the LE report? If we use BF, is that going to be against TOS?
This is all a bit more than I'm used to on another thread so bear with me, cluciano!
:seeya:
 
GGE: Have you gotten any time length or mileage between different places? I had several posted but they're back in the thread somewhere. I was using Google Maps and Map Quest.
 
We can discuss the people and facts in the report, we just can't "sleuth" non-POIs/ non-suspects, and quoting from the police report surely can't be "sleuthing" when it was already moderator-approved for posting and sharing and discussing here, within TOS.

We also cannot outright accuse or otherwise slander innocent/non-suspect persons but I surely have not done that so this conversation clearly does not pertain to me.

JMO
 
We can discuss the people and facts in the report, we just can't "sleuth" non-POIs/ non-suspects, and quoting from the police report surely can't be "sleuthing" when it was already moderator-approved for posting and sharing and discussing here, within TOS.

We also cannot outright accuse or otherwise slander innocent/non-suspect persons but I surely have not done that so this conversation clearly does not pertain to me.

JMO

Exactly how I understand it. :)
 
GGE: Have you gotten any time length or mileage between different places? I had several posted but they're back in the thread somewhere. I was using Google Maps and Map Quest.



I have not. I'm only casually perusing this case, not actually working on it in the way that I do the ones that have a particular connection to, so I haven't been reading every page of the threads or following every link or anything like that.

I just wanted to see the police report because I prefer primary sources whenever possible, as I find the information to quite often be incorrect the more it is copied and re-written by MSM who do not do their own research, but rather paraphrase other articles over and over until the original information has been lost.

Now that I have it, I had a couple of thoughts that I wanted to share, but that is out of my system so I probably will get back to Keyes now.
 
I have not. I'm only casually perusing this case, not actually working on it in the way that I do the ones that have a particular connection to, so I haven't been reading every page of the threads or following every link or anything like that.

I just wanted to see the police report because I prefer primary sources whenever possible, as I find the information to quite often be incorrect the more it is copied and re-written by MSM who do not do their own research, but rather paraphrase other articles over and over until the original information has been lost.

Now that I have it, I had a couple of thoughts that I wanted to share, but that is out of my system so I probably will get back to Keyes now.

Ladies, I can take a drive tomorrow (we'll have to allow for traffic at different times of day), if you want. :)
 
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