AZ AZ - Chelsea Grimm, 32, traveling from San Diego CA to CT, car found Oct 5 on Forest Rd 6 near Williams, she was last seen in Williams, 28 Sep 2023

[Protectwomenandgirls]

Imo leaning towards foul play. Did she typically carry any form of self defense? For instance, my husband, boss, and close friends could immediately attest to the fact that I won't go anywhere without pepper gel. I refuse to leave my house without it. Not trying to victim blame - but I feel that women are being given a false sense of security. What were her typical options for self defense? And again I'm not trying to place blame

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Because she left a bunch of stuff in the car, including her camera.

She took her camping gear. To me this says that maybe she intended to camp for a bit (as she told her parents) and then figure out how to get the car fixed. If she didn't want her position to be known (as stated to the Seligman motel front desk), then she would have had to find a way of fixing the tire without using a credit card, ATM or calling AAA.

Maybe it was a decisive moment for her. If she was thinking about just walking away from her life, she started that process by walking away from her car - but she might have been able to think in terms of Plan A and Plan B, at least (even if neither plan would be considered "safe" from her family's point of view).

IMO

This is pretty much how I envisioned what had happened. Knowing she was in a crisis, but trying to be 'logical" thinking about going off the sleep in the woods, and then come back to the car to figure things out .

But clearly, they searched a wide circumference ....

Cases like this do regularly remind me of Brian Laundrey.............. they searched and searched, but he was still in those swamp/woods all along.

 

[StarRemy8]

Was her abandoned car found ON Service Rd 6 or was it near/off that road on a different dirt road? I wish we could see on a map where exactly the car was left.

The most northern point of Rd 6 is 20-25 miles from the towns of Ash Fork and Williams which are both an hour drive and would take close to 7 hours on foot. The most southern point of that road is a little over 15 miles either of those towns and still about a 5 hour walk to get there.

When looking at the aerial view of that road there was just absolutely nothing around. It is really in the middle of nowhere to be in a situation like that and I wonder how many other people in their car or hiking she would have even passed on a random weekday. I know its a couple hours away from the Grand Canyon but is where her car was abandoned a somewhat touristy/popular area for camping and hiking etc?

 

[ifindedout]

Was her abandoned car found ON Service Rd 6 or was it near/off that road on a different dirt road? I wish we could see on a map where exactly the car was left.

On FS Route 6, at the side of the road, here:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

ETA: also referenced upthread here:

AZ - AZ - Chelsea Grimm, 32, traveling from San Diego CA to CT, car found Oct 5 on Forest Rd 6 near Williams, she was last seen in Williams, 28 Sep 2023

I hear of people cutting wood in the Sierra, for their own use or to sell, need a permit. Here's what it says about the Coconino National Forest. https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/coconino/passes-permits/forestproducts/?cid=fseprd497256 The Coconino provides firewood for personal use both on a...

www.websleuths.com

 

[StarRemy8]

On FS Route 6, at the side of the road, here:

Ok thanks so are those the specific coordinates in the link? If so, that is the most northern spot of that road so she was very far from anything even remotely walkable.

 

[ifindedout]

Ok thanks so are those the specific coordinates in the link? If so, that is the most northern spot of that road so she was very far from anything even remotely walkable.

Yes, they are pretty specific, anyway no more than 2 or 3 carlengths IMO.

 

[acutename]

It's entirely possible. She'd have to have a sharp tool or drive over something deliberately, though.

MOO

or just let the air out....are they punctured?

 

[acutename]

That's so true. It's the inconsistencies, you know? She locks the car. She takes the wallet/cards. She leaves the camera. I think it's another example of her not thinking clearly.

is the camera heavy?

 

[acutename]

It's the extremes of emotion that flags for me more than the subject matter. Most people find graves of strangers a melancholy thing, but the floods of tears, it's like there's no filter. And she'd obviously been acting oddly for a while, for someone to notice and be concerned enough for a call to be made and the cop to actually come. No one thinks a person shedding a few tears at a cemetery strange. They wouldn't call the police for that. That tells me her behaviour was very odd indeed.

MOO

I do wonder what she was doing at the grave sites that caused some one to call LE- lots of people research graves for all sorts of historic, genealogical reasons... do grave stone rubbings, etc.

 

[10ofRods]

Was her abandoned car found ON Service Rd 6 or was it near/off that road on a different dirt road? I wish we could see on a map where exactly the car was left.

The most northern point of Rd 6 is 20-25 miles from the towns of Ash Fork and Williams which are both an hour drive and would take close to 7 hours on foot. The most southern point of that road is a little over 15 miles either of those towns and still about a 5 hour walk to get there.

When looking at the aerial view of that road there was just absolutely nothing around. It is really in the middle of nowhere to be in a situation like that and I wonder how many other people in their car or hiking she would have even passed on a random weekday. I know its a couple hours away from the Grand Canyon but is where her car was abandoned a somewhat touristy/popular area for camping and hiking etc?

Here is the map provided by the Kaibab National Forest FB page:


The marker with the car is where they say the car was found on the NF page.

And while it is certainly a forest, there would be people out there daily, doing various things. The road is on its way to a Native American reservation that attracts a great deal of tourism. People from that village are allowed to gather firewood throughout the Kaibab forest and probably use those forest roads. We know of two hunters and two woodcutters (one of whom posted on the page set up for Chelsea on FB, but I'm not sure that we can post such comments here).

There are some pretty amazing caverns and other sights that are clearly marked as being accessible by that road, and they appear as Places on Google.

I-40 has lots of traffic. The entire Grand Canyon region has more than 5 million people traversing the area annually (and yes, people do take various interesting routes to get to GC - that's part of the appeal). That number includes repeat visitors (we're going soon for the second time this year - and we will take a route that's new to us - and on our next trip we are going to try and go to Hualapai - which can be accessed by traveling some of the way on Service Road 6.

We do star gazing and collect rocks of various kinds. That's permitted on NF lands. There are also utility works, dam workers, and rangers who are out there 5 days a week. So it's not *completely* isolated, definitely off the beaten path - but I only wish that we could go to Kaibab NF and not see many other people when we're there - but even if we do dispersed camping, we still see quite a few people on the daily.

Williams has competing rock shops where the owners collect on federal and state lands in three states (California, Nevada and Arizona). Our guidebook shows chert is found not too far from Ash Fork, in that forest (and I need some samples for my classroom). So while it's not busy or anything, there are plenty of people who go out that way on any given day. Again, at least four people saw her near where her car was found.

IMO

 

[SAMS]

Have there been any searches? I’d be curious what dogs would hit on around the area her car was found. MOO

 

[Trublue21]

I don’t necessarily believe foul play was involved. More like misadventure. Maybe she dropped some acid. Which could explain her “strange behavior” (crying at a gravesite, driving her car in circles with 2 flat tires, refusing assistance and taking her sleeping bag out into the wilderness.) I think she arrived in Arizona, and for whatever reason, decided to party. Maybe that’s why she met up with this “friend”. No judgement. JMO.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

Have there been any searches? I’d be curious what dogs would hit on around the area her car was found. MOO

Her parents indicated in an interview (or more than one) that they were satisfied with whatever searches LE did. I have read that many volunteers have searched, and still continue to search that area. There was a PI who did extensive drone searches in a few directions (not a 360-radius) and posted his charts on his Twitter feed. I'm not sure if dogs were brought in but I thought I'd read they were.

 

[10ofRods]

I do wonder what she was doing at the grave sites that caused some one to call LE- lots of people research graves for all sorts of historic, genealogical reasons... do grave stone rubbings, etc.

This is the troubling issue. Merely crying is not so unusual that most people (or anyone) would call LE. Lying down on the ground or on a grave (combined with the crying) might induce some very kind people to call LE - especially if they had some kind of brief but peculiar interchange with that person.

So I think we can be sure she wasn't just softly weeping and taking pictures or rubbings. Had to be more than that, I'd think.

IMO.

 

[JerseyWasHome2]

This is the troubling issue. Merely crying is not so unusual that most people (or anyone) would call LE. Lying down on the ground or on a grave (combined with the crying) might induce some very kind people to call LE - especially if they had some kind of brief but peculiar interchange with that person.

So I think we can be sure she wasn't just softly weeping and taking pictures or rubbings. Had to be more than that, I'd think.

IMO.

I would definitely agree with that, but when I inquired about why it was reported as "suspicious activity" at the graveyard, someone (here? not sure) replied that that is just an LE term to cover what someone else deems as something they feel needs reporting. I wonder if it was just that perhaps someone saw a vehicle with an occupant there for several hours. Chelsea did tell the officer she hadn't anticipated being there until sundown, so it just makes me wonder if it was just that someone saw a car there for that length of time. Just pondering, IMO.

 

[Joe Friday]

This is the troubling issue. Merely crying is not so unusual that most people (or anyone) would call LE. Lying down on the ground or on a grave (combined with the crying) might induce some very kind people to call LE - especially if they had some kind of brief but peculiar interchange with that person.

So I think we can be sure she wasn't just softly weeping and taking pictures or rubbings. Had to be more than that, I'd think.

IMO.

Or it could have been a neighbor of the cemetery that has lived nearby for many years and has never seen a car parked at the cemetery at night. So when they seen Chelsea's car parked there for a long period of time and it was dark, got concerned as to what is going on and called LE.

Just your average Joe concerned citizen.

 

[UrsulaWrenn]

This is the troubling issue. Merely crying is not so unusual that most people (or anyone) would call LE. Lying down on the ground or on a grave (combined with the crying) might induce some very kind people to call LE - especially if they had some kind of brief but peculiar interchange with that person.

So I think we can be sure she wasn't just softly weeping and taking pictures or rubbings. Had to be more than that, I'd think.

IMO.

Actually........... I kinda think "just crying" might be viewed by some as rather risky behavior. A woman crying in a bar or a city park or a parking lot can attract all kinds of attention, and make her a target for those with bad intentions. Someone may have seen her get teary, become worried she was making herself vulnerable, and called the police to make sure she stayed safe.

 

[10ofRods]

or just let the air out....are they punctured?

I believe LE and the PI have stated that the tires appeared to have the kind of damage that comes from running over a sharp rock (at a certain rate of speed).

IOW, the air wasn't just let out. And "puncture" is a smaller diameter hole than what a rock can do to a tire out there.

Since both are on one side, I assume she went over the rock with enough speed that she didn't notice the jolt (one would notice the jolt - rocks that mess up tires are definitely going to make the driver feel something) so that the second tire also ran over the same rock. The solution for this is to creep along such roads at speeds of 5 mph - or less. 10 mph tops.

Her car did not appear to have M/S tires, either, so fairly easy to cause a flat via the sharp rock method. I've seen nothing to contradict this view so far.

 

[10ofRods]

Actually........... I kinda think "just crying" might be viewed by some as rather risky behavior. A woman crying in a bar or a city park or a parking lot can attract all kinds of attention, and make her a target for those with bad intentions. Someone may have seen her get teary, become worried she was making herself vulnerable, and called the police to make sure she stayed safe.

I guess.

I see women crying at least a couple of times a month, usually at bus stops near the college, or sometimes, somewhere on campus. I have never called police. This must have been a very very concerned local citizen if they call about crying at a cemetery.

I can't really go there - I think it had to be more than weeping. Either loud crying or accompanied by some other behavior. Williams Cemetery is not exactly tiny. People are probably there nearly every day, for one reason or another, and the cemetery in my home town (similar sized) routinely has people (me for one) weeping there. Of course, I actually know the people in the graves. Maybe the out of state plates combined with crying and photography were considered too weird for some Arizona local?

 

[10ofRods]

Or it could have been a neighbor of the cemetery that has lived nearby for many years and has never seen a car parked at the cemetery at night. So when they seen Chelsea's car parked there for a long period of time and it was dark, got concerned as to what is going on and called LE.

Just your average Joe concerned citizen.

Oh - was she parked there at night? Then of course someone would call! I didn't realize that. My best friend lives adjacent to a (larger but not huge) cemetery and the cemetery in my home town closes its gates at dusk. Most cemeteries do (we used to get up to high jinx of various kinds in that cemetery in high school - and boys would go there with beer and some larger monuments got damaged, so they built a fence).

But the Williams Cemetery tells a story about pioneers and the awful losses of babies and children (as do many Arizona cemeteries that date to 1800). It's a pioneer site. The cemetery is just off the highway and near the main drag (such as it is) in Williams. Lots of people go there for a quick walk after lunch in Williams, and hitting the road east or west. There are two cemeteries (not far from each other), but this is true of both.

This is the area where, I believe, people go to catch the train to the Grand Canyon, which is almost always fully booked. It is a main stopping over point for people going from CA to Grand Canyon. It's definitely a touristed cemetery. It is surrounded mostly by businesses and there's a lot of foot traffic in the area. There's a Day's Inn quite close by, but the nearest houses are at least half a mile away. There's a Safeway closer to the cemetery than most houses are.

Many people take the Historic Route 66 route through Williams - and the cemetery is right on that route, well-marked.

Of course, most people are probably not weeping as they explore this pioneer cemetery.

IMO.