AZ - Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, 26 Dec 2009 - last seen in Texas - #6

[BeanE]

I'm thought she took the bus AFTER the phone pings in Victoria? Am I wrong about that? It was my understanding that she drove down there to Victoria(completely out of the way) and then came back up to San An...and got on the bus...that would shoot down any thoughts that it was pinged in Victoria while she was on the bus...

Eliz having been in Victoria has now been debunked. Please see momtective's post here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4668028"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AZ-Gabriel Johnson, 8 months, missing since 12-26-09 thread #6[/ame]

I don't know how Eliz's phone pinged in Victoria. Perhaps someone stole it and then went to Victoria?

 

[smart blonde]

I, of course, will continue to speculate, just for the record.

 

[trigger]

So she asked for a lawyer...Maybe just maybe we will hear something soon to find out where this cute little baby is. Im praying it will be today...

 

[Anais]

After seeing the way Tammi trashed Logan during the beginning of her media 'tour', I believe that Tammi helped to manipulate Elizabeth into hating Logan.

I'd bet that Tammi played a huge role, behind the scenes, of destoying that relationship, all for Tammi's own gain.

If I look at the timeline of how long Logan and Elizabeth we together as a couple, it seems to me that things really got out of control after Tammi and Elizabeth hooked up.

I think that Logan may have actually brought some much needed stability into Elizabeth's life, and Tammi was hell-bent on destroying that- just so Tammi could get her paws on the precious baby Gabriel.

Just my speculation, of course.

I have been suspicious of Jack and Tammi from day one. I am not sure what it is about those two, but they just simply made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. However, until the investigation brings any clear evidence/proof of their direct involvement of Gabriel's where abouts everything else is pure speculation.

 

[smart blonde]

So she asked for a lawyer...Maybe just maybe we will hear something soon to find out where this cute little baby is. Im praying it will be today...

Oh how I hope you are right.

My gut tells me though, that she will utilize her attorney to cover her rear, instead of to help recover Gabriel.

 

[smart blonde]

I have been suspicious of Jack and Tammi from day one. I am not sure what it is about those two, but they just simply made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. However, until the investigation brings any clear evidence/proof of their direct involvement of Gabriel's where abouts everything else is pure speculation.

I agree.

I do think though, that much of any investigation is speculative, until the concrete answers are found.

That almost goes without saying.

 

[BeanE]

After seeing the way Tammi trashed Logan during the beginning of her media 'tour', I believe that Tammi helped to manipulate Elizabeth into hating Logan.

I'd bet that Tammi played a huge role, behind the scenes, of destoying that relationship, all for Tammi's own gain.

If I look at the timeline of how long Logan and Elizabeth we together as a couple, it seems to me that things really got out of control after Tammi and Elizabeth hooked up.

I think that Logan may have actually brought some much needed stability into Elizabeth's life, and Tammi was hell-bent on destroying that- just so Tammi could get her paws on the precious baby Gabriel.

Just my speculation, of course.

I think Eliz was well-grounded in her hatred of Logan (and Gabriel) all on her own. I agree that from Dec 9 on, Tammi pushed on those buttons in her self-centered, obsessive quest for a baby, but I don't think Tammi was the impetus for that hatred.

I don't think Eliz and Tammi were in contact much, or at all, from the time they met until Dec 9. From that point on, I think Tammi played with fire considering Eliz mental/emotional/behavioral history. Gabriel was the one who got burned.

As an aside, it is because of that very same singleminded self-centeredness that I can't see Tammi doing anything for anyone else. In her world, it's all about her. I can't see her helping anyone else get a baby. It just doesn't fit. Even now, with Gabriel, a defenseless baby, in grave danger, it's still all about Tammi to Tammi. A leap to helping someone else get a baby just doesn't fit.

 

[Searchfortruth]

Good morning, friends. Catching up, so this may have already been posted.

Prof (and I think Marigold was looking for this too), I'd posted that Tammi asked Janet from Nashville to call Eliz on Dec 26 or Dec 27. I just looked it up to confirm it.

Please note that this also includes the date Eliz told Tammi about the 'underground' - Dec 26.

For reference: Dec 26 is Saturday, the last confirmed sighting of Gabriel. Dec 27 is Sunday, the day Eliz texted Logan and hopped the bus. Dec 28 is the Monday when the full custody hearing was held.

"CASAREZ: Right before the commercial break, you told us that Elizabeth had told you, and referred to it as an "underground help" at least once -- that she had gone to. When did she tell you this?

TAMMI SMITH: She told me, I believe it was the day before that Sunday that she had found a domestic violence -- she didn`t tell me a name. She just said that that was her plan to go there and they would take care of everything because that was our last plea to come back. I had a friend in Nashville that works with attorneys call her and plea to her to come back here to Arizona to court on Monday. I had my attorney call her and plea to her to come back here and go to court on that Monday, so -- yes.

CASAREZ: So you say that she said to you the Saturday before the Sunday -- so you`re saying -- the Sunday of the 27th, she left...

TAMMI SMITH: Right.

CASAREZ: ... San Antonio. So she was in San Antonio when she told you she had found an underground domestic violence shelter, a place to go?

TAMMI SMITH: Right."

HTH

Search tip: the way I find NG transcripts quickly is by googling:

transcript nancy grace guestname keyword(s)

as in this instance:

transcript nancy grace tammi smith call friend

This transcript popped right up as the second link.

Tammi's mention of the underground (shelter) and all the legal assistance being offered to EJ, just don't mesh. First, we have no evidence of Tammi being in a shelter in TX, there would be some sort of confirmation on that by now. While a shelter for DV may include legal assistance, they would be talking about legal adoption, foster care, in this type of scenario. There is no paperwork suggesting this was a legal adoption. I doubt that underground illegal adoptions exist in DV shelters.

Tammi calls her "friend" (with a questionable history herself in adoptions) and asks her to reason with Elizabeth. This doesn't pass the smell test based on what we know about Tammi, ie; her message to Logan to sign the papers or else.

The good question is, if Tammi wanted Gabriel so badly why would she allow for someone else to take him ? I believe as soon as EJ got word from Logan about kidnapping charges the whole ball game changed. Tammi knew she was no longer an option for adoption at that point and EJ knew she was in big trouble. Whether EJ did something to Gabriel or had one of Tammi's associates broker a quick hand off, IDK.

 

[BeanE]

My first New Year 2010 prediction (lol!).....

If Gabriel is not found within the next 3 days (maximum), and if Elizabeth does not start talking within that same time period, they will slap murder charges onto her other standing charges so hard Elizabeth's head will spin.

Unlike KC, I think if they apply the screws to this one - tightly - she'll put out. I'm soooooo glad the FBI behavorial team is involved. Those people are dam good. (It's what I want to do when I grow up lol.)

I think there *might* be even be a chance that Eliz rivals Cindy in an inability to keep her mouth shut. I'm praying for it. And I'm hoping she's still unmedicated so her ability to control her mouth is at an all-time low.

 

[mysticrose]

I so don't want to even think about Gabriel gone overseas. If he's been taken out of country, he's not ever coming back IMO (as much as it pains me to think that).

Then Miss EJ can sit in prison for the rest of her life (or at least most of it) if she can not produce Gabriel or any information he is alive she will probally get charged with murder to some degree, if I was her I'd start talking ...

 

[BeanE]

I, of course, will continue to speculate, just for the record.

So will I. It's important and helpful to finding Gabriel, so long as it's based on something factual.

I don't recall ever having seen you go off into the realm of the ludicrous and the absurd, smart blonde.

I needed to get that out of my system. I'm very worried about Gabriel.

 

[mysticrose]

Sorry everyone need more coffee, what exactley was found in EJ's car in regards to Gabe, was the diaper bag found with that stuff ...TIA

 

[mum]

Not true, imo. I have two adopted children and you are not being truthful, IMO.

I am also a mom through adoption, twice.

 

[mysticrose]

The reason I was asking about the diaper bag is because it is possible EJ left her phone in the diaper bag when she gave Gabe to whomever and that is where the pings were coming from. She could have picked up a new phone along her way to FL. I am not quite sure how LE gets there ping information I would assume it comes directly from the phone company so there would be no need for the phone in hand ...Did that make sense lol

 

[BeanE]

Something is seriously wrong... I had GMA on for a while, now Today Show on for a while, and Tammi and Jack aren't on!

:crazy:

Did I miss them? Or are they starting to turn over a new leaf?

 

[BeanE]

The reason I was asking about the diaper bag is because it is possible EJ left her phone in the diaper bag when she gave Gabe to whomever and that is where the pings were coming from. She could have picked up a new phone along her way to FL. I am not quite sure how LE gets there ping information I would assume it comes directly from the phone company so there would be no need for the phone in hand ...Did that make sense lol

That diaper bag is important! Thank you for keeping it in the forefront, mysticrose. I think there's a reason that bag was on her mind enough for her to mention it to Logan. Could have been conscious or subconsciously on her mind, deliberate/manipulative, an unintentional slip, but it was on her mind for some reason.

I haven't seen anything on it being found yet. I wish LE would let us know if they've found it.

 

[mum]

My theory of adoption is just that, a theory, like so many others have theory's or opinions based on the knowledge that they have in regards to an issue. And obviously the FBI or SA LE were looking into this theory, that is why they went to TN to check out the adoption professional that TS knew.

 

[SuziQ]

Didn't EJ have her phone on her when she was arrested?

 

[mysticrose]

Didn't EJ have her phone on her when she was arrested?

Hi Suzy yes I think so, but we don't know if it was her original or a new one, that is why I was speculaing about the diaper bag and the phone maybe being in there. LE said that EJ wasn't in Victoria but that doesnt mean her phone wasn't.
It is so hard with LE because they could be saying that to throw anyone off that they are trailing them .. JMO of course pure speculation.

 

[mysticrose]

I still can't figure out why no reward has been offered up for this boy , what gives ?