AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #12

[PAXIMUS]

Wait- so does DUI/Vapors/OC fall under that same code number? The 13-3623?
Sorry to be so thick....


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I dont have access to the statute numbers here at home at the moment so I am not sure but when I looked at the record for her that was the charge, dui/vapor etc. Ill look further in to this and find out.

 

[Isabelle]

I'm still floored that LE would release that information and especially information that one parent has a 'no contact' order with the children. Makes no sense that they would release this, unless they are trying to throw someone else off??

 

[FrayedKnot]

I still think it may be a reach that Sergio being removed from the house and not allowed any contact automatically means he is involved in her disappearance, it may not or may not, I wouldnt read much in to it as people react strangely with a lot of pressure on them, I believe this as domestic violence related to he and Becky not getting along well, this could be the result of the stress and pressure of the case or it (more likely) is something that has been ongoing with them even before the case as they do not seem like a very close couple IMO, she never looks at him very fondly when they are together, doesnt look at him at all in fact always looking down and almost ashamed, Becky.

That was my take, too, regarding Becky's face/body language. She appeared to be making an effort to even sit near him. MOO.


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[katydid23]

Absolutely true.... True they have been under untold stress. But with that said I have two sons who are now 24 and 19 and... "cuddling...??? Really?
I don't buy it it's another "red flag" growing list.

And not to bring up something totally out of "left -field" maybe the "uncle" is sc's SO ? Would this change anything and or make any sense?
:banghead:

Sorry, but I missed the cuddling part. Who was cuddling and when? LOL

btw, my kids are 19 and 24 as well. Not much cuddling going on here with them, but I will demand some nice big Mothers Day hugs.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Maybe......

It was az 13-3623 which is Child or Vulnerable adult abuse

It covers many things, but yes, may have been dui w/ child....

http://www.azleg.gov/ars/13/03623.html

"A. Under circumstances likely to produce death or serious physical injury, any person who causes a child or vulnerable adult to suffer physical injury or, having the care or custody of a child or vulnerable adult, who causes or permits the person or health of the child or vulnerable adult to be injured or who causes or permits a child or vulnerable adult to be placed in a situation where the person or health of the child or vulnerable adult is endangered is guilty of an offense as follows:

1. If done intentionally or knowingly, the offense is a class 2 felony and if the victim is under fifteen years of age it is punishable pursuant to section 13-705.

2. If done recklessly, the offense is a class 3 felony.

3. If done with criminal negligence, the offense is a class 4 felony.

B. Under circumstances other than those likely to produce death or serious physical injury to a child or vulnerable adult, any person who causes a child or vulnerable adult to suffer physical injury or abuse or, having the care or custody of a child or vulnerable adult, who causes or permits the person or health of the child or vulnerable adult to be injured or who causes or permits a child or vulnerable adult to be placed in a situation where the person or health of the child or vulnerable adult is endangered is guilty of an offense as follows:

1. If done intentionally or knowingly, the offense is a class 4 felony.

2. If done recklessly, the offense is a class 5 felony.

3. If done with criminal negligence, the offense is a class 6 felony."

Could that describe DUI with child?




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Ok I just saw this and yes it can fall under that staute exactly.

 

[jennapuppy]

I think this could be on track. Also, as someone upthread was discussing the voices early that morning. What if one of the boys got up to use the bathroom, and found dad messing with the window screen. They may have spoken to each other briefly along the lines of " Dad, what are you doing?" " Nothing son, just fixing this window...go back to sleep..."

That would have thrown a huge wrench into things...the kid would have felt cornered and in the middle.

One of the boys may have heard or seen something that has been bothering him, but hasn't said anything to LE due to his own fears or uncertainty. It's possible that the boys have heard the parents expressing distrust of LE and have been waiting for the opportunity to talk to someone that they feel they can trust.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I dont have access to the statute numbers here at home at the moment so I am not sure but when I looked at the record for her that was the charge, dui/vapor etc. Ill look further in to this and find out.

If it helps, that was the code number on her record. So I Googled it (which is a sure fire way to get accurate info, lol) and it came up as Child or Vulnerable abuse. But I could easily see how driving inebriated or in possession of drugs with a minor child in the car is child abuse.

Thanks for essplainin' all this. My brains is hurting.


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[FrayedKnot]

Once again, thanks Paximus. I saw your reply after I posted.


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[LisaB]

You don't want to know what goes into chorizo (although it IS awesomely tasty). That's why I opt for Soyrizo. Soy based and every bit as good IMO. http://www.melissas.com/Products/Products/Soyrizo.aspx (too lazy to post just an image... it's my bedtime).

Sounds like scrapple to me!

 

[katydid23]

I am trying so hard to wrap my head around this.

Say, for instance, Sergio is involved in Isa's disappearance. What the heck happened in order for him to do this?

They go to a baseball game and come home around 10 or 11. Chances are the boys, being a bit older and who are boys, stayed up later than Isa. Say Isa does go to bed and falls asleep in her room.

So what happened between then and 8 a.m.? What would have made him do something? What the heck happened?

She is sleeping and not doing a thing wrong. What would be the motivation for making her disappear or perhaps causing her harm in the middle of the night?

Then, thinking about it even more, no one heard a thing that night if something did happen to Isa? The boys' room is right beside Isa's. UNLESS, the boys did hear something.

And did the Mom know if Sergio was in bed all night? And if Sergio was not, would she have not got up at some point to see where he was? I am not a very sound sleeper and I would know if my hubby got up out of bed in the middle of the night.

Something is strange here. And I am thinking, if Sergio is involved, those boys or mom know more than we think.

ETA: What gets me is we also heard the boys were interviewed earlier on and the parents allowed it. Each of them have not lawyered up and they allowed one-on-one interviews in the house with the detectives. This is where I am stumped too and it makes me stay on the fence.

There was an 8 yr old girl who was killed in a murder/ suicide by her stepfather, last month in Long Beach california. It was just in the news this week that his motivation was that she was being sexually abused by him, and she had finally told him she was going to tell on him if he didn't stop.

Some women sleep very soundly, especially if they take Ambien or something to help them. I don't know if Becky took sleeping aids, or if she slept soundly. But their room is very far away from Isabels room.

And it would make sense that she would often go sleep in her brothers room, if she was getting unwanted attention in her own room.

Hailey Dunn used to sleep in the living room instead of her own room. When they bought her a tv so she would stay in her room, she disappeared within a couple of nights.

 

[liz b.]

I still think it may be a reach that Sergio being removed from the house and not allowed any contact automatically means he is involved in her disappearance, it may not or may not, I wouldnt read much in to it as people react strangely with a lot of pressure on them, I believe this as domestic violence related to he and Becky not getting along well, this could be the result of the stress and pressure of the case or it (more likely) is something that has been ongoing with them even before the case as they do not seem like a very close couple IMO, she never looks at him very fondly when they are together, doesnt look at him at all in fact always looking down and almost ashamed, Becky.

IMO it does absolutely mean that SC is either directly involved,or is witholding information about that night.

CPS is "stepping up" their involvement.IMO that means that they were already involved before Isabel disappeared.

Remember when NG mentioned that there is " a report out there about Isabel sleeping with her brothers " ? IMO it is possible that this "report " is part of a CPS investigation that had begun before Isabel went missing.

SC would not have a no contact order placed on him because of a domestic violence incident at this time..MOO Even if he was ordered to move out of the house,he would still be able to see his kids...MOO There would,for example,be supervised visits. MOO

There's a definate reason for LE's continual use of the word "sensitive " MOO

 

[PAXIMUS]

IMO it does absolutely mean that SC is either directly involved,or is witholding information about that night.

CPS is "stepping up" their involvement.IMO that means that they were already involved before Isabel disappeared.

Remember when NG mentioned that there is " a report out there about Isabel sleeping with her brothers " ? IMO it is possible that this "report " is part of a CPS investigation that had begun before Isabel went missing.

SC would not have a no contact order placed on him because of a domestic violence incident at this time..MOO Even if he was ordered to move out of the house,he would still be able to see his kids...MOO There would,for example,be supervised visits. MOO

There's a definate reason for LE's continual use of the word "sensitive " MOO

If the cops found something about Sergio that was related to her disappearance it is very unlikely they would consult civilians at CPS, too much risk for leak there. I suppose it could be something in a roundabout way related and they had to move quickly to get the kids away from him hence the CPS involvement but it cant be anything that damning because LE, especially here, is very close to the vest with such matters. I think as I said it is DV related and probably not directly related to the case but did raise suspicions as to his possible involvement.

 

[curiousc]

There was an 8 yr old girl who was killed in a murder/ suicide by her stepfather, last month in Long Beach california. It was just in the news this week that his motivation was that she was being sexually abused by him, and she had finally told him she was going to tell on him if he didn't stop.

Some women sleep very soundly, especially if they take Ambien or something to help them. I don't know if Becky took sleeping aids, or if she slept soundly. But their room is very far away from Isabels room.

And it would make sense that she would often go sleep in her brothers room, if she was getting unwanted attention in her own room.

Hailey Dunn used to sleep in the living room instead of her own room. When they bought her a tv so she would stay in her room, she disappeared within a couple of nights.

I do know this happens, sadly. However, in the Hailey Dunn case I believe Mom and SA are involved.

In the Lisa Irwin case, I believe Mom did it and the dad is covering for the Mom.

Sergio doesn't strike me as a person who would sexually abuse his daughter. But I could be very wrong. I've never talked to him so my insight may not be there and how many times have neighbors and friends said about perps, "he was a nice guy, etc." Let's say for instance it wasn't that. What else is the motivation? Was it out of anger? If so, once again, I believe Mom and the boys know more because who the heck would get angry at a sleeping daughter? She would have had to be awake and done something wrong to have something to be angry about.

People do sleep like a rock, but as a mom of three, I don't. It's not saying that I am everyone out there I also know the bedroom was farther away from the kids, but, what, if anything, did those boys hear?

But here is another thing that gets me. If true, and the neighbor did hear voices at 6:30 a.m., then there must have been something going on in that house at that time and prior if these two males (one being dad) were involved. So, where was the Mom? If she was there, what does Mom know????

I am just plain stumped. Where is Isa?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

With face by Max Factor. Love that PanCake!


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Or Stein's

 

[Isabelle]

It really blows my mind that LE released the CPS information, unless they are trying to throw someone off?

 

[katydid23]

I do know this happens, sadly. However, in the Hailey Dunn case I believe Mom and SA are involved.

In the Lisa Irwin case, I believe Mom did it and the dad is covering for the Mom.

Sergio doesn't strike me as a person who would sexually abuse his daughter. But I could be very wrong. Let's say for instance it wasn't that. What else is the motivation? Was it out of anger? If so, once again, I believe Mom and the boys know more.

People do sleep like a rock, but as a mom of three, I don't. It's not saying that I am everyone out there I also know the bedroom was farther away from the kids, but, what, if anything, did those boys hear?

But here is another thing that gets me. If true, and the neighbor did hear voices at 6:30 a.m., then there must have been something going on in that house at that time and prior if these two males (one being dad) were involved. So, where was the Mom? If she was there, what does Mom know????

I am just plain stumped. Where is Isa?

I cannot see any motivation other than sexual abuse here. I am not saying it was Sergio, for sure. But I do think that sexual gratification was the motive. I thought it was a close friend or family member that was the most likely suspect. But now I am not sure about that.

Sergio is a very passionate and strongly emotional person. Becky seems kind of distant and controlled, and even kind of shut down. So, imo, I can see the possibility that he channeled his love and affection in the wrong direction.


I think the voices at 6:30 were happening way after she was gone. Maybe he was just fixing and staging the window at that time, while mom was in the shower. He had to have it look like a break in , in case mom peeked in at her girl before she left for work. And maybe one of the boys saw him and asked what was up?

 

[PAXIMUS]

It really blows my mind that LE released the CPS information, unless they are trying to throw someone off?

Me too and it pisses me off from a legal standpoint.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Regarding the video, I cannot make out what mom is saying, or what can be read into it regardless.

I am sure I was not alone, when I first heard of this case, in immediately assuming that the family was involved. Statistically this is almost always the case, and given the time of the disappearance it seems reasonable to conclude that it was her immediate family. This CPS thing seems to further support this.

My impression, unsuppoprted by research or evidence, is that these kinds of cases have become more common since Casey Anthony's trial. It seems to me (again, unsupported by evidence) that a number of people learned a 'valuable' lesson from that trial -- that if you simply hide the body well enough and keep your mouth shut you can get away with anything. And this is, of course, mostly true. For the most part it doesn't matter how ridiculous a story is or how many times the suspect changes it, it doesn't matter how outrageously a suspect behaves, unless the police recover the body quickly our TV trained juries are not going to convict. Sadly, thanks to the media attention Casey's trial provided, killers now know and are taking advantage of this.

Hopefully this case will be solved and we will see justice.

The issue I have with this is:

1. I can't think of any cases prior to 2008 where someone was convicted of the murder of a child without a body.

2. If Casey's case had never happened....guilty parents would still get rid of the body.

IMO....perhaps the media is focusing on cases where a little kid goes missing, parents might be guilty...to try to re-create the Anthony trial.

 

[Pensfan]

I cannot see any motivation other than sexual abuse here. I am not saying it was Sergio, for sure. But I do think that sexual gratification was the motive. I thought it was a close friend or family member that was the most likely suspect. But now I am not sure about that.

Sergio is a very passionate and strongly emotional person. Becky seems kind of distant and controlled, and even kind of shut down. So, imo, I can see the possibility that he channeled his love and affection in the wrong direction.


I think the voices at 6:30 were happening way after she was gone. Maybe he was just fixing and staging the window at that time, while mom was in the shower. He had to have it look like a break in , in case mom peeked in at her girl before she left for work. And maybe one of the boys saw him and asked what was up?

Domestic abuse (frequently occurs with alcohol abuse) is a common reason CPS uses to force a non-offending parent to sign an agreement with CPS stating that his/her children will have no contact with the offender. While working with families in my career, I heard this numerous times.

It could be either parent, but I'm leaning towards the mom was removed and the kids are with their father.

 

[katydid23]

Domestic abuse is a common reason CPS uses to force a non-offending parent to sign an agreement with CPS stating that his/her children will have no contact with the offender. While working with families in my career, I heard this numerous times.

I see what you mean about DV being the cause of the CPS order. But I am talking about the motive for the child's 'kidnapping.' I think the motive behind her kidnapping is sexual abuse. Whether it was a stranger abduction or a family friend or by the father. Whomever did it, I think it was sexually motivated.

JMO