AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #14

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
While on the phone with SC (after he said his 10yo was in the garage waiting for his mom), the dispatcher said "I think he's calling in on another line"...poor guy probably was told to stay there and wait (by his dad), but he was freakin' out...

*I think*...being upset and tired doesn't help my recollection...and major RL distractions...will check back later or tomorrow...

I would LOVE to hear believable theories (lookin' at you PAX and white rabbit) where Isa is alive and well...(I've already thought that maybe she is)...

There was so much hink already, even before hearing these 911 calls...

Actually, the 14 y.o. called from the neighbor's house. I think he used the guy's cell, since the operator asks him to go home and ask his dad what Isa had on and he asks the neighbor if he can take the phone with him to do that (neighbor says yes, of course).
 
Thanks, Nurse, for the Rumor rules.

I'm not buying the "insider" info about Sergio being part of a drug cartel, no way, no how.

Just like I didn't believe yesterday's "rumor" about how the parents were not a couple anymore.

no problem...

also.. important about rumors from the co-owners:

they are not considered facts

Just also posting this as well... because rumors need to be treated like what they are: Rumors.

New Rules on Sex Offenders and Rumors - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
 
If Sergio did it. The cartel would sell her body for profit. Sex for profit. This is if they believed it to be an acceptable payment. And of course Sergio would have to report her. What else would he do? The cartel is not afraid of LE. They are vicious, evil people with no fear. What if gave her up for payment and believed he would be able to get her back with reward money? Whatever happened to Isabel I believe Sergio was involved.[/QUOTE]

BBM.. I don't know what happened to Isabel, however like you, I do believe Sergio C is involved up to his eyeballs in whatever did happen...JMHO
 
LE has been watching him (thoroughly) and through his recent actions, they have learned that he has connections to the cartel. I don't know to what extent. Just that they are looking at the possibility that Isa's disappearance may have some relation to this connection. I don't know if they have since ruled this possibility out or if they believe it is related. I was told about this before CPS got involved. I don't know if anything has changed.

If LE has been able to determine his connection to a cartel AFTER his daughter went missing, then he's not too smart, lol.

Based entirely on Sergio's actions and reactions and words, I feel strongly that the man was directly involved with his daughter's disappearance.
 
Fast and Furious a very big gun running gang in mexico. Google it.

Forgive me if this has been addressed in detail. Im still only on page 20 or so and there are many more to go...ugh you guys/gals need to slow down :giggle:

Unless one follows politics and the news other than topics discussed here at WS... One probably would not know what F&F is. It is not a gang. Nor is about the movies of the same name :0

It is a political nightmare.

Here is an overview for everyone - it is a long read, but if you really want to know, it is a very good source of info:

http://reasonedpolitics.blogspot.com/2011/04/hillary-eric-wikileaks-and-batfe.html

To begin...

Shortly after President Obama took office in January 2009, Attorney General Eric Holder and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton launched a coordinated effort to pass more gun control laws here in the U.S.. The justification? 90% of military style semi-automatic rifles used in the cartel wars in Mexico were bought in U.S. gun stores and smuggled across the boarder.

There was only one problem: It was all a big lie. We now know that not only did the Justice Department know that the 90% figure was inaccurate, the State Department knew where the bulk of the rifles were actually coming from: Central America and U.S. sales to the Mexican Military.

The current timeline of the scandal provides the strongest support yet for the theory that administration officials first lied about the source of Mexican crime guns and then set about trying to support that lie by increasing the number of guns “going south”.

Early 2009: High ranking members of the administration launch a major campaign to pass a new “Assault Weapons Ban” in the U.S.. Over and over they state that 90% of weapons recovered in Mexico come from U.S. gun shops.


Early 2009: At virtually the same time: The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) began ordering gun dealers to sell guns to suspected smugglers.

Early 2009 to late 2010: Instead of arresting the smugglers, ATF agents are ordered to watch as the guns are smuggled into Mexico. Over and over they beg for permission to stop the guns from going into Mexico – every time the order is the same; Stand down.
Follow the link to learn more.....way too much to c&p and go into a post here...
http://reasonedpolitics.blogspot.com/2011/04/hillary-eric-wikileaks-and-batfe.html
 
I think they try to keep the caller on the pone just in case some useful information or incriminating tidbits come out. They called Ronald Cummings back when he hung up on 911.





I am not sure SC put his son up to calling 911. I think SC may have called first because near the end of his call the dispatcher says the son is trying to call, and because when the son calls he is told that the officers are already on their way.





Because it's hard to put the hinky aspects down to his personality when it seems to change. 911 call after just finding out that his daughter was abducted he is cool as a cucumber and even finds it funny and then he breaks down and is very emotional in a public statement that he had lots of time to prepare for. Just odd.

But there are plenty of parents who were thought hinky and turned out to be innocent, or at least guilty of something other than hurting their child.

Good post Donjeta as always you make me read and think harder!
 
I just listened to the dad's 911 call. I got chills when he chuckled. :(
 
I am not even going near any drug cartel/human trafficking or any other such exotic motive. I prefer to keep it simple.

It appears that LE gave out the info today about Sergio and the boys not being able to see/talk to each other.This puts SC in a very bad light in the court of public opinion.Then to make matters worse (for Sergio) they release a 911 tape of his voice not even ruffled calling in to 911 dispatch. Again, this did not reflect well on him once again.

It appears to me that LE is focused on him as the one who is responsible for his daughter's disappearance. They are putting pressure on him. This has gone on way too long. Confessions usuallly can be had in the first two weeks if no attorney steps in. If he is the perp, he has been a hard nut to crack.

If I am interpreting LE accurately, I agree with their focus.

I am with you on this one, Whisperer!

*To everyone - sorry to keep posting out of whack! I am in and out today.
 
:what:

I have to hear this myself, but why on earth would he say something like that? My husband would have been so scared to tell me he probably would have sent someone to get me and not told me over the phone and definetly not made a comment like that as if it was all my fault! MO

Because sometimes when people are freaking out they laugh and say things not right. I laughed at my moms funeral and I work in an ER and we make jokes about terrible things to break the tension for our own sanity.
 
Hey all, I'm in Phoenix (about 90 miles from Tucson) and one of the radio stations here did a facebook poll (so you know it's super official lol) asking people if they feel that the father is involved and 100% said yes after hearing the 911 call. Now I know that everyone reacts differently, myself, I get very calm in the middle of craziness but even I wouldn't have been giggling with the 911 operator or sounding like I was ordering a pizza. I hear nothing in his voice that sounded like fear or even slight concern. JMHOO but I kept thinking that everyone needed to cut the parents a break until I hear the dad. Something just ain't right there.
 
Because sometimes when people are freaking out they laugh and say things not right. I laughed at my moms funeral and I work in an ER and we make jokes about terrible things to break the tension for our own sanity.

But a nervous laugh is different. It isn't a slow, calm "heh heh heh."
 
It almost had that eerie tone of a "payback" chuckle. At least, that's how I read it.


I had mentioned before that I have previously noticed that sometimes when people lie, they will giggle or laugh because they do not believe what they themselves are saying, so they have an uncontrollable giggle.
IMO, This is exactly what I thought occurred with the chuckle.
 
Because sometimes when people are freaking out they laugh and say things not right. I laughed at my moms funeral and I work in an ER and we make jokes about terrible things to break the tension for our own sanity.
(Respectfully stated) Sergio wasn't freaking out or exhibiting symptoms of tension.

I thought his chuckle after admitting that he ordered his wife to get her butt home was haughty. It reeked of domestic abuser.
 
If Isabelle was snatched by abductors, then how come Sergio appears so hinky to so many?

I think it is possible that his overall hinkiness brought the abductors to the door that night.
 
This is an interesting article from the FBI LE Bulletin about a study that was done on homicide 911 calls, regarding differences between guilty callers and innocent callers.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_6_77/ai_n27504386/


It's based on this research:
Homicide Studies 2009; 13; 69-93
Tracy Harpster, Susan H. Adams and John P. Jarvis
Analyzing 911 Homicide Calls for Indicators of Guilt or Innocence: An Exploratory Analysis

Some examples here:
http://kledispatches.ky.gov/Documents/1011_Revealing_Murder.pdf

The following are listed as indicators of potential innocence in their study of callers reporting homicide:
-Immediacy, including early pleas for help, pleas for help for the victim only, urgency of plea, demanding plea, voice modulation, verbal reaction of caller before the 911 dispatcher’s first cue
-accuracy, including self-correction
-validity, meaning plea for help

Indicators of potential guilt include:
-Evasion, including resistance in answering, huh factor, repetition, conflicting facts
-extraneous information
-Distancing measures, including acceptance of death (not applicable here because this call does not report a homicide victim), possession of a problem, inappropriate politeness, insulting or blaming victim, plea for caller only and minimizing their own involvement before, after or during the event.

(It's just statistically more likely one way or another, not completely exclusive.)

Now, my random observations looking at father's call
http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18395759/father-to-911-she-was-abducted-from-my-house
there is no urgency whatsoever, not in the words, not in the tone. There are no pleas for help for Isabel, in fact he never says what kind of help is wanted. He just reports that he needs to report an incident (it's a problem that he possesses , not a plea for help for Isabel) and leaves it completely up to them if they want to investigate or find her or write it down or forgeddaboudit or what, he never says that they need the police here quick or please you need to find her fast she's only six years old.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18395708/celis-911-call-someone-broke-in-and-grabbed-her
Contrast that with the son:

He says they need help fast and reports the address so they know to come to the right place right away. (I know we talked a lot about giving 14 year olds the responsibility of calling 911 but in this instance he did better than his father imo.)

He repeats his plea for urgent help after he's already been told the officers are on the way.


Also the mom asks for urgent help for her daughter, :


Voice modulation refers to the emotional aspect of the tone and he was not audibly upset based on what I could tell. He chuckles.

Accuracy, well, I dunno about that. He self corrects Isabel's spelling and says her height is different from what RC says her height is. (36-40 inches to 44-48 inches). Does he know? Why does he say, "I'm sorry", in the middle of reciting her birth date? Did he say the wrong month at first? T



Here we've got the huh factor, plus, he's not even thinking about Isabel any more. The dispatcher has to remind him about his missing child that he wanted to report.



Is there conflicting information? Was there someone else with him when he went to wake Isabel up? He changes the pronoun from we to I in the middle. It's not the sons apparently if he only woke them up after noticing Isabel was gone.



Maybe it's just me but I find it a little odd that he takes the time to spell out the middle initial, and in code words too. I think I would either forget about the middle name or just state the whole name. Shorter and simpler imo. "Isabel Mercedes".



That bit falls under extraneous information imo. This would be his cue to think if they know or have seen someone who seems suspicious now but instead he recites his alibi. Would this be classified as minimizing his own involvement? He was sleeping and didn't hear a thing, and he didn't even notice the window being open, his son did.

He is polite imo. He says hello and I'm sorry, several times, and politely explains why he seems distracted at the end of the call. (it's Becky's fault).

There is no victim blaming but he appears to have an attitude toward mom.


Wow!!! Excellent analysis!! :clap:
 
I think she could tell because they were talking very close to where her apartment window was. She said they were on the outside of the Celis property.

It sure looks like their wall to the back of their home sits much further than 5 feet from each other.

When Natisha Lance was there and peered over the wall to look at Isa bedroom' window it looked like it was at least 15-20 feet maybe even more to her window from the backyard wall. How could they have cookouts and play with only 5 feet between the back of their house and the back wall? That is tiny.

IMO
Isabel's window is on the SIDE of the house, not the back.
 
For me, it was not just the giggle.

I found the information he gave without being asked strange.

Why would he feel the need to say that his son noticed the window and the screen? Why was that detail important to give and other details not important to give? Why not just say the screen was off the window? Does it matter who noticed it? Why?

I found his stumbling on the questions he was asked strange. "Clear eyes"? IMO
 
First off, Sergio reminds me of George Anthony all over again.... Ok just my opinion but I think Sergio never went to sleep that night. And he does sound like hes on meth or coke on the phone.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
151
Guests online
2,865
Total visitors
3,016

Forum statistics

Threads
603,656
Messages
18,160,408
Members
231,811
Latest member
mkbuchanan1983
Back
Top