AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #14

[Prof]

I do "Google" myself. Some day I might find my name posted in public forum; I might be one of the winners of the last name drawing
I am a 911 virgin. I have never called 911. I am sure I would sound at least nervous, but I'd more likely be screaming my head off.
I have only called the police non-emergency line once, and that was to ask the difference between a tornado watch and a warning. :blushing:
I am sure I sounded nervous.

 

[AnaTeresa]

Not within moments.

Generally within 15 minutes after death a scent can be detected by a properly trained cadaver dog on an item the body has been in contact with (pardon my poor grammar on that sentence). That's a general estimate and it depends on the dog, the conditions, etc. Probably not before 10 minutes though, based on everything I've read so far.

So what that means is...if someone came into the house and killed Isa, they also left her in one spot for up to 10 or 15 minutes at a minimum. Why an abductor would remove a dead child from her house I don't know.

According to one of our professional posters, detection is much faster than that.

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[Knox]

Perhaps I'm a bit naive and/or overly-influenced by film and literary stereotypes, but Becky Celis doesn't strike me as a sweet, shy, innocent Mafia wife who knows nothing about her husband's sinister activities. Despite her insistance to the contrary, I don't think that Becky is one to hide her emotions or shy away from uncomfortable situations: She was quite outspoken and even a little aggressive in at least one interview. I can't imagine this strong woman being completely unaware of her husband's extracurricular endeavors, especially if she believed that her children might be in danger. If Sergio was involved with unsavory characters and participating in questionable behaviors, I'm glad that the children have been placed in a safe setting with their mother. :moo:

I agree, the "go for it" interview proved to me she is no shrinking violet. She seems quite confident and in control of herself.

 

[liz b.]

Then how would they get their money back?



I think we have been told the smell of cadaverine begins within moments of death.

It isn't so much about the money...unless someone is a major dealer/supplier. . They kill people to maintain absolute control over their distribution area...it is sheer intimidation.

Doubt this is at all what happened to this little girl....

 

[Pensfan]

And if he did not, and one child was taken as a result, would LE not then decide he should not be in contact with his other children, and contact CPS to get the kids into Mom's custody and to an "undisclosed locatioon"?

Yes. One article stated that RC and children were staying at her brother's home. She also took the brothers to mass on Sunday, so the kids are not hidden. The kids also went back to school.

 

[Emeralgem]

From this morning's Today show:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2...rl-isabel-celis-police-release-911-calls?lite

Thanks BDE.. The dog in that video looks injured.. Did you notice?JMHO

 

[Thinkzerz]

Gee it seems it took forever for the police to get there.

 

[andalso]

How late did the D-backs game run on Friday 4/20? Midnight seems awfully late for a baseball game unless it was on a DVR. i would have just checked the scores online rather than watch the game. I wonder if LE checked the DVR.

...snipped by me...

Per Nanwv earlier in this thread, the game ended at 9:30, so he would have had to have been watching it on DVR (IMO likely easily verified by LE).

 

[Madeleine74]

According to one of our professional posters, detection is much faster than that.

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As described above, the animal had access to the deceased person directly, so they had the source available immediately.

In these crime/missing person cases, the person isn't there so the source is gone, and the dogs are looking for a scent that would have been transferred to an item...carpet, bedding, something. I would expect that to take some (albeit short) amount of time.

 

[GracieLu]

hmmmm, just listened to the 911 call from the son and mother. The 14-year-old son is the only one 100% off my hinkey meter. I cried during his whole conversation with 911. Becky made me cry as well, but at some point she seemed calm and from reading WS for many years, this set my hinkey meter off just a little. Sergio's call did nothing for me except made me wonder why he was so calm, hmmmmmm....

Again, none of this means anything and I am still pretty confident parents were not involved,,,,, but, I am questioning why the police released the 911 call tapes now? hmmmmmm

and now for a rant - what a crappy world in which we live where a beautiful little girl, obviously loved and cared for well, goes to bed without a care in the world and is taken by some monster. I hope and pray whoever took her is caught soon and harsh cruel justice is served!!!!!!!!!!!! my heart is broken!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SurfieTX]

I have heard of certain defense lawyers hiring web watchers to get a feel for public perception on a case....they monitor comments on news stories, and public forums .. I believe
I wonder if LE does this in any way...

I believe they do. I think Jeff Aston (Caylee prosecutor) is/was a member here. I know reporters are members here. In fact, in Jo Ann Bain's case, we outed one of Adam Mayes' aliases on page 2 of the original thread....way before anyone else.

 

[Thinkzerz]

If this father is innocent just imagine how being separated from his sons is going to hurt his family. I sure hope they find out what happened to Isa soon. This is awful.

 

[tlcya]

Okay, earlier you said run with the F&F theory. So here's where my brain is going--my theory only.

Let's say that SC was involved in a gun smuggling operation. A family member who's also involved in Mexico got wind that the guys in charge were angry at SC (maybe he's stealing money, maybe he's working with LE, whatever). Say the family member heard that whoever is running the operation vowed revenge, or that he would find another way to get their money back--maybe he hinted that they would target Isa (ransom kidnapping, child prostitution, whatever).

So this family member comes to SC in the middle of the night and says he's going to take Isa to Mexico to live with some family members to keep her safe. Tells SC to figure out how to explain it to his family and abduction is the best SC could come up with.

To me, this would explain why SC doesn't sound stressed out on the initial 911 call (he knows she's safe). Then maybe the police comment in the early interviews that he sure doesn't seem upset about her being missing, so he over dramatizes it in the press conference. Maybe RC knows it now, too, and now that the police know of his involvement, they've deemed it too unsafe for the boys to have contact with him.

There is absolutely no basis for me to know any of this is true, just throwing something out there. I have felt that SC knows where Isa is but at the same time, I've never felt like he murdered her.

So maybe I'm crazy... or maybe I'm on to something.

Interesting theory. I like the outside the boxness of it. The BBM portion doesn't track for me tho. IF SC is left to explain Isabel's absence then RC would have to not know in order for the 911 call and report of abduction to make sense. If RC knows whats what, then all you have to do is explain to the boys, friends and neighbors that Isabel is visiting so and so, out of state. No call to LE needed.

Also, the statement/plea given by SC would not make sense under this theory. Because, why make a plea for kidnappers to "tell us your demands."

These are not people of great means, therefore, abduction for financial gain would not make sense to assume for these parents. His telling an abductor to give us your demands causes people to speculate why someone would take this particular child, who obviously does not come from a wealthy family. I don't see SC taking that tact with his plea/presser if he thought it might get people/LE thinking along lines of someone might have Isabel for some sort of gain as that would, I think, bring them closer to the actual truth of the situation.

 

[Madeleine74]

For the family's sake (and for Isa's sake) I'm not comfortable pointing my finger directly at anyone and declaring them to be guilty with what (little) information is available publicly...

But I will say it makes sense that LE would need to delve into the family dynamic and take a good long look at the father (and others too). I'm sure some red flags got raised and they have to check those out.

 

[Thinkzerz]

Has it been said why police think the father is involved?

 

[rpgman]

I believe they do. I think Jeff Aston (Caylee prosecutor) is/was a member here. I know reporters are members here. In fact, in Jo Ann Bain's case, we outed one of Adam Mayes' aliases on page 2 of the original thread....way before anyone else.

Good ole Jose Baez had a whole firm/company doing it for them.

 

[LisaB]

Why would she do this and not just leave and take all of her children with her??

I know a (former) couple. The wife was unfaithful, but used the fact that her husband was rough with their children as her "reason" for leaving so people would take her side. She told people about him punching the kids, twisting their arms, grabbing them by their collars and raising them up onto their toes to bellow into their faces... He was only 5'5" but had a HUGE upper body from 30 years at a manual labor job. He comes across as cheerful and laid back, and some people were skeptical of her claims. It turns out that she was telling the truth, and that the kids had (as she claimed) been begging her to leave for quite some time before she did. Let me add that he NEVER physically abused her, but when she objected to his treatment of the children, he said "They are MY kids and I will discipline them as I see fit."

He is inconsistent with the kids, and so they really don't understand why they can joke and play with him all day, and then suddenly some SMALL thing will set him off. The thing I really do not get (and the reason this seems "relevant" to the case) is that she left the marital home with her kids, then agreed to shared custody.

The dad has the kids from Thursday noon to Sunday night, She has them from Sunday night to Thursday noon. He also sees them for a while on Wednesday evening as mom takes a class then. So she has removed HERSELF from the situation, even though she was never assaulted, yet she leaves the kids with him virtually half of the time without anyone to look out for them. At least when she was in te house, there was SOMEONE to step in when he abused the children. Now he has carte blanche to hurt them, and they haven't got an advocate.

Maybe this is why Becky did not want to leave Sergio. If he had access to the kids without her there to intervene, and she felt he was abusive, she may have stayed with him to protect her children.

no It relates to the hit on the car by dog- could have been drugs. Sorry for not stating that.

A dog hit on the car? When? Link please? TIA.

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

I'm throwin my hat into the ring....

For me, the 911 call...first 3 sentences...

911 Operator: "What's your emergency?"
Sergio Celis: "I want to report a missing person. My little girl who's 6-years-old. I believe she was abducted from our house."
911 Operator: "Why do you think she was abducted?
Sergio Celis: "I have no idea. We woke up this morning and went to go get her up, start her baseball game, and she's gone. I woke up my sons, I, we looked everywhere in the house, and my oldest son noticed that her window was wide open and the screen was laying in the backyard. We've looked all around the house."

Who says "abducted" in a 911 call??? And, then, says "I have no idea" when asked why.
Maybe it's just me...I know people use different terms and deal with things more calmly than others...but, THEN, he's tellin a story!!
Went to get her up...start her baseball game...woke the boys up....whaaaat??? REALLY????
Listen to Cindy Anthony's 911 call....IMO, now THAT'S a 911 call.

Again...only just IMO.

 

[AnaTeresa]

As described above, the animal had access to the deceased person directly, so they had the source available immediately.

In these crime/missing person cases, the person isn't there so the source is gone, and the dogs are looking for a scent that would have been transferred to an item...carpet, bedding, something. I would expect that to take some (albeit short) amount of time.

To clarify, another post. It seems that varies by dog and training. It's seems possible to have a dog trained to detect the chemical changes of death.

Decomp scent begins the moment a person dies. But there is a 'window' of confusion (in scent discrimination) when a scent trail turns to decomp. So for example- I go missing. A trailing dog is given my pillowcase as a scent article. That dog is trained to scent on ME (using scent particles). Then it turns out that I'm probably deceased. My other pillowcase is given as a scent article. THAT dog (a different dog) is now scenting off of the same particles, but it has been trained as an HRD dog.

At what time an HRD dog is able to accurately alert on a specific decomp scent depends almost entirely on what kind of training they have had.

One dog may be trained to detect decomp from chemical changes inside the body. One dog may be trained to detect gasses produced during decomp, and released from the body. And just to complicate further lol- one dog may be trained to detect cell(s) that have decomposed to a specific age and are unique to an individual. HTH.

(sarx is gonna slap me.)

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[liz b.]

Has it been said why police think the father is involved?

Not by LE...MOO And I doubt if it would ever be said. Probably come out during any trial...