AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #15

[txanmom]

I am going to throw this out there and hope I don't get yelled at because I am speculating and nothing more. I think we need to give mom a break about how she acts. We have no idea what the family dynamic was before Isa went missing. Doesn't sound like the marriage was all that great (really not uncommon) now mom has to deal with the press, LE breathing down her throat, the boys are probably afraid and she has to try to take care of them, her husband has to stay away and I am sure there are some doubts there about what he knows, guilt for not checking on Isa before she left for work (she said that on the 911 tape and broke down) and on top of all of that her baby is missing and (IMO) she doesn't know if she is alive or dead, hungry, safe. I am surprised that she can even remember to breath let alone "act" how everyone thinks she should be. If I am wrong and it turns out that she was involved than I will eat my words but until then I think before we judge her on her weird actions we need to step into her incredibly big shoes for a second. Ok off my soap box LOL I love you all so please don't flame me.

I agree, and fwiw I don't think she had a thing to do with it.

 

[cluciano63]

Okay, this is OT, but in the book I am reading right now, nothing to do with anything, a sentence stood out to me...talking about how people are calm when someone is dying, etc....it says it is when hope is gone, that is when one becomes calm, and that hysteria is due to still hoping for a better outcome...

Anyway it is just a sentence, but it made me think of Rebecca, hysterical/hoping and Sergio, calm?

JMO

 

[Prof]

Wait, I thought "we" had determined that he is her step-brother?

:waitasec:
Whose step brother? and I am not sure why it matters.

This is how I found the familial relationships. I usually do this within the first few days, as often family will close down their FB pages. Again, I disclaim that I am not sure why it matters in this case how JM is related, so that is why I have not posted any specifics.

If one wants to find a family tree on any case, one can usually do so by simply following FB page trails, if they are still public. This is obviously made easier when one posts a pic of one's grandfather's grave. This lead is not often available in cases. Some of us often use obits for making family connections. It also helps when one has named familial relationships on FB.

 

[mamamia54]

Okay, this is OT, but in the book I am reading right now, nothing to do with anything, a sentence stood out to me...talking about how people are calm when someone is dying, etc....it says it is when hope is gone, that is when one becomes calm, and that hysteria is due to still hoping for a better outcome...

Anyway it is just a sentence, but it made me think of Rebecca, hysterical/hoping and Sergio, calm?

JMO

What bugs me at this point, is that Sergio seemed so calm making that 911 call, which is an entirely different thing when he's standing in front of the microphones pleading, crying for whoever has Isa to bring her home. It's like a contrast total contrast. I'm perplexed.

 

[LisaB]

Yes but my point is just that whatever she wore to bed could be called pajamas, not necessarily meaning proper "pajamas".

Okay. I give up. I took the boy literally. I apologize for derailing the thread.

 

[LisaB]

The no contact order put me on the fence. I still think this smacks more of a stranger/neighbor etc abduction from everything we know but there is a lot we don't.

One thing that could be the reason for the no contact is finding child *advertiser censored* ala Josh Powell on his puter. The legal sort which uses adults or anime type figures but text shows that certain ones are children. Or child *advertiser censored* using adults (playing daddy's little girl or boy etc). This would cause a huge concern but not be something they can arrest him for. I could see him agreeing to the voluntary rather than have it nationwide news when he tries to fight it.

I do think however that an arrest would have been made if it was blatant child *advertiser censored*..in fact it would be a perfect time to try and sweat the truth from him, keep him off the streets and take their time investigating the disappearance of Isa.

However ugly secrets get exposed in criminal investigations, many which have nothing to do with the crime being investigated. This could be another case like when Jessica Lunsford grandfather had his record of a sexual offense exposed. Many jumped on it but he had nothing to do with her murder and kidnapping.

Sure. Cause LE jumped all over Shawn Adkins and Billie Dunn for the 109,000 child *advertiser censored* images supposedly found amongst their various phones, flash drives and computers. /blue font

 

[PAXIMUS]

Also keep in mind some things cannot be posted on WS. What has been posted wrt the whole FF thing and other nefarious connections that have been found is only about 1% of what is out there. Some of it cannot be posted on here because of the rules, if people did the actual research and looked in to it, which I thought is what 'sleuthers' do, they would find that there is a WHOLE LOT more to this than they realize.

Im taking the time to do the research, I wish others would too, whether it be about this theory or another, do the research yourself and read what is out there THEN draw your conclusions.

 

[txanmom]

I couldn't find the entire video, just clips on today show website, can anyone help me? The clips I saw showed BC with police and NO beach towel, then SC with the beach towel. I do not know the order they went into the home. They didn't show the 14 yo at all. Wasn't this reenactment shortly before the no contact order? I am thinking this is an important detail.

 

[spoiledmom]

Ok, I get the whole drug/ gun cartel abduction heory. My question is, why didn't Sergio sound afraid for his little daughter on the 911 tape if he knew "they" had her?

I think he didn't sound afraid because he was involved. I in no way think that he is innocent. If the cartel took her, I think he willingly gave her to them. JMO.
Could be why he is not allowed to be around the boys.

 

[mamamia54]

Also keep in mind some things cannot be posted on WS. What has been posted wrt the whole FF thing and other nefarious connections that have been found is only about 1% of what is out there. Some of it cannot be posted on here because of the rules, if people did the actual research and looked in to it, which I thought is what 'sleuthers' do, they would find that there is a WHOLE LOT more to this than they realize.

Im taking the time to do the research, I wish others would too, whether it be about this theory or another, do the research yourself and read what is out there THEN draw your conclusions.

And once again I totally agree with you. I'm also researching behind the scenes here. Actually, I'm searching for where all Sergio sang his opera works. I would like to know in which music hall, and who were the owners of that music hall, what connections did they have with various people. Just doing what I think is necessary to make some sort of rational conclusion.

 

[johnQpublic]

Well what about the dogs!
does no one pay attention to their dogs?
they bark for a reason!
If they didnt bark its probably more likely friend than fiend!

From looking at the home and having been a telecom installer in the past in AZ IMO this type of home is made in a way in which hearing exterior noise can be pretty difficult. The exterior walls are at least 12 inches thick consisting of stucco exterior over top of styrofoam wrapping thats nearly 2 inches thick and covered with chicken wire, the insulation in the walls is more than likely foam pellet or a high grade insulation. It's also not very uncommon for homes like this to have insulated interior walls as well for noise reduction and to help aid in cooling costs. Insulation helps keep the cool in the home in the summer as well as the winter, and being that close to stores and the main street it would also be ideal for keeping out the road noise. So it's very well possible they did not hear the dogs at all when they were barking.

 

[SpongeBathHotPants]

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Police-search-Tucson-wash-for-Isabel-Celis-151631445.html

 

[Prof]

I just started reading up on this after seeing it on NG the other night. So he's not the relative who was there that morning and spokesperson for them at first?

The media has not been exactly accurate in this case.

Yes, JM is the relative that the media called spokesperson at first.

The media interviewed JM late afternoon and evening. The reporter noted the time of day it was, and we could see the afternoon sun and dusk in both. Twice. He was searching and passing out flyers.

We have no evidence that shows JM there in the morning, none.

We also have no evidence showing JM state he was the "family spokesperson."

He could have said he was family, or some friend could have done so.
He did say that he organized a bunch of friends to help with the flyers.
The media referenced him as such.

IMO it could have been the same thing as they did a few days ago saying that the older children were from another mother...

This is why I always track down the source, rather than paraphrase what someone else has paraphrased....

I hope that helps.
I do understand what it is like to jump into a discussion of a case a bit late, and 15 threads of catch up is fairly impossible.

Please forgive my overexplaining at times as it is the nature of my profession.

 

[DTT715]

What bugs me at this point, is that Sergio seemed so calm making that 911 call, which is an entirely different thing when he's standing in front of the microphones pleading, crying for whoever has Isa to bring her home. It's like a contrast total contrast. I'm perplexed.

Maybe because he didn't know that it would get as big as it did...thought that he was just doing the part and reporting it and then bam...the media. Well now, he has to play the bigger part.

Look...I think the majority of us all agree that people react differently to different life situations. We could also agree that there are some societal norms and common behaviors generally associated with certain trauma type situations. However there is always room for an exception to the rule, right? But I can tell you...of all the things that were said on the 911 tape, the one thing that got me was this portion and it's not a direct quote but you get the point: I'm sorry...I can't hear you because my wife just came in and she's freaking out...what was your question again?
I get that there is a crisis going on and all the stuff I just mentioned but have a heart and at least walk over and comfort your wife...you know that the cops are on their way...you can even stay on the phone with dispatch but instead he was almost irriated with her. That...yeah...don't get although I accept that everyone is unique.

 

[Anita Richman]

Also keep in mind some things cannot be posted on WS. What has been posted wrt the whole FF thing and other nefarious connections that have been found is only about 1% of what is out there. Some of it cannot be posted on here because of the rules, if people did the actual research and looked in to it, which I thought is what 'sleuthers' do, they would find that there is a WHOLE LOT more to this than they realize.

Im taking the time to do the research, I wish others would too, whether it be about this theory or another, do the research yourself and read what is out there THEN draw your conclusions.

Paxi, did you ever make it over there, to take photos? I'm specifically curious about the fence in the backyard. In some photos it seems there is a wooden gate, in others, just stucco wall. I would also like to know how tall the wall is, on the southwestern corner.

 

[spoiledmom]

Okay guys, I edited my post about the brother. I think I remember now where I saw it. Nancy Grace. You all have confirmed it was not SC's brother so this rumor is being squashed. Thank you.

 

[GutFeeling!]

The JM on her fb, in a photo with RC's kids, he says he's uncle. He's the one who has all the photos with boats and Florida?

We have assumed because of his age he is referred to as Uncle by the kids, he is a cousin to BC, 2nd cousin to Isabel. It's all linked up way back yonder lol

 

[Shelby2]

I think he didn't sound afraid because he was involved. I in no way think that he is innocent. If the cartel took her, I think he willingly gave her to them. JMO.
Could be why he is not allowed to be around the boys.

He reminded me of how my son sounds when he know's he's going to be in trouble for something. "My Mom's freaking out", he says it the same way SC said it.
Probably means nothing, but that's what it made me think of.

 

[PAXIMUS]

Paxi, did you ever make it over there, to take photos? I'm specifically curious about the fence in the backyard. In some photos it seems there is a wooden gate, in others, just stucco wall. I would also like to know how tall the wall is, on the southwestern corner.

I will try and swing by on my way home and see what that gate looks like and how tall the wall is although it is probably 5 feet high, that is usually the standard for walls in this area for a backyard and most of them have a wooden or metal gate in the back for alley access, some with double gates so you can actually bring a car to the back. We will see.

 

[Eileen730]

From looking at the home and having been a telecom installer in the past in AZ IMO this type of home is made in a way in which hearing exterior noise can be pretty difficult. The exterior walls are at least 12 inches thick consisting of stucco exterior over top of styrofoam wrapping thats nearly 2 inches thick and covered with chicken wire, the insulation in the walls is more than likely foam pellet or a high grade insulation. It's also not very uncommon for homes like this to have insulated interior walls as well for noise reduction and to help aid in cooling costs. Insulation helps keep the cool in the home in the summer as well as the winter, and being that close to stores and the main street it would also be ideal for keeping out the road noise. So it's very well possible they did not hear the dogs at all when they were barking.

Just all the neighbors!!!!