AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #15

[callyn]

BBM

Could someone weigh in on this? Yesterday I posted a screen shot of a google map overhead, showing the Celis house and the neighbor's house. I circled in red what I thought might be the guest house. It has a door that opens on the alley, and a window adjacent to the Celis' back yard.

Someone else kindly told me that the young woman who heard the male voices at 6:30 AM was staying on the side of the neighboring house near Isa's window. So I assumed that the poster meant that what I circled couldn't be the guest house where this woman was living, because it isn't alongside Isa's window, it's alongside the Celis' back yard.

I hope you don't mind me asking once again--is the part of the neighbor's house that I've circled the guest house where the woman lives?

When the neighbor was interviewed she was standing by the wall just opposite Isa's window. She indicated vaguely that her bedroom was kind of behind her. I believe in one interview she said it was her mother's house. I had the feeling that perhaps that little addition to the house off the alley had access to that side of the house and that her bedroom was actually in the house itself. Because, as you noticed, that little box of an addition is not right opposite Isa's room. I found it confusing, too. When I was a kid we had an addition similar to that one that had access to a bedroom and bath inside the house-it was built for my grandmother.

 

[LisaB]

I agree. I have been asking from the beginning why LE hasn't been warning us Tucsonans about a possible kidnapper on the loose. There has been NO sense of "watch your kids extra close" at all. That has been helped to sway my opinion of what happened to Isabel.

With all the publicity surrounding this abduction, I would not think they would need to remind parents not to let their kids wander around alone, and to lock their bedroom windows. Are there really parents, living in Tucson right now, who would need to be TOLD that? (no snark intended)

 

[spoiledmom]

The other night you were giving out clues as to what you thought could have happened because you had information, as a local, that most of us didn't know.
Was this a game for you? Giving clues and seeing what transpired from them? It came across like this was your theory.
See Thread 14, page 15, post 355.
For everyone reading this post, this is where all the 'cartel' theory started.

I did not come up with the cartel possibilities through Paximus. I don't think he is playing a game.

 

[bwilson]

The police have been all over the mother in that case. Her kids told them information to make them think she was murdered. They never thought she was kidnapped by a Mexican cartel. They never extended the search to Mexico either. The statistics they are talking about in the article is for 2008.

I know the details of the Shockley case. The police did initially state they thought was she kidnapped, because she was nowhere to be found - until her older kids came forward with their information. Go ahead and Google "Phoenix kidnappings" or "phoenix drug kidnappings" and you will find the great majority of the links about the "rash of kidnappings" are from 2008-2010

OR they are like the ones below:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/...nix-police-chief-city-manager-conference.html

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2011...tistics-then-tried-to-debunk-his-own-numbers/

Also, I wouldn't expect Ms. Schockley to have too many ties to Mexico - at least not like the Celis Family who have relatives in Douglas , AZ. - just my opinion.

 

[Anita Richman]

I don't find it racist that you notice we doll up our young ladies, cause we do. Not in a sexualized or skimpy way, but dresses and lots of work on their hair and all...yuuup I did it too til my tomboy outgrew it at about age 11.

I agree. And earrings in our daughter's ears as newborns. (When I was little, I thought baby girls were born with earrings in their ears.)

 

[sayd]

Wow, everyone's very complex theories are very interesting. My completely unsubstantiated theory is that shortly after Mom and the boys went to bed, Daddy Dearest took his "she looked so beautiful" and "Daddy, I'm tired" girl on a car ride somewhere and she didn't come back alive.

He then staged the window screen and made-up a not very well thought-out abduction story. He probably got rid of her in a nearby wash, and threw her pillow and blanket in the broken down car, planning to go back and move them into the house at a later time when he could wash them first.

That's my best guess and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Salem]

EVERYBODY - Please refresh your memories of TOS. We are getting a ton of alerts on this thread and we all have our hands full at the moment.

Either get it together or we can lock the thread until one of us has time to get here and clean things up.

Your choice......

Salem

 

[Prof]

I thought the next door neighbor with the barking dogs first stated the Cartel theory.

 

[LisaB]

We need quick access to a "sarcasm" "emoticon"...

Yesterday the use of a blue font, or a /sarcasm switch was debated.

 

[Kat]

This thread is so off topic I won't be surprised if it gets pulled for review. Just saying because it's a mess in here. (ETA: sorry Salem I didn't see your warning.)

As for the way in and way out of the yard of the Celis'. In the 911 call where Isabel's Mom talks she says that the "door" is locked but in the next breath she says something to the effect that they must have climbed over the fence.

I took her reference to the door not to be the door to the house but the gate to the yard. (in a picture located on the internet and also posted to one of Isabel's threads, there is a reporter standing in front of a large wooden gate that is inset within a wall. It looks to be a possible gate to a courtyard). If the gate(s) were secured then how would someone get into the yard and then leave that yard with an awake 6 yr old? Pack her over the fence? It's a question I haven't puzzled out in my mind yet. Any ideas?

(I am still contemplating how she was removed from the house and yard, I haven't gotten anywhere near to developing a theory yet )

 

[Stash777]

I posted the following video in thread #13, page 3, post #59 but didn't think too much about the comment made by AS (neighbor that heard the dogs and talking men at 6:30 am) at 2:30 in the video. After all the theorizing going on about possible cartel involvement, I thought I remembered her saying something about it but didn't want to post without being able to link to the video. I finally figured out which video it was, so here it is:

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18306084/finding-isabel-the-untold-investigation

AS "I have heard speculations on that the family is involved with drugs, the cartel." Again, this starts at 2:30 in the above linked video.

Just putting this out there, fwiw, as it is a linkable MSN video about the local rumors wrt a possible cartel connection.

 

[joedotnet]

This thread isn't off topic at all.

 

[bwilson]

I agree. And earrings in our daughter's ears as newborns. (When I was little, I thought baby girls were born with earrings in their ears.)

My daughter's pediatrician pierced her ears in his office at 3 months

 

[Anita Richman]

This thread is so off topic I won't be surprised if it gets pulled for review. Just saying because it's a mess in here.

As for the way in and way out of the yard of the Celis'. In the 911 call where Isabel's Mom talks she says that the "door" is locked but in the next breath she says something to the effect that they must have climbed over the fence.

I took her reference to the door not to be the door to the house but the gate to the yard. (in a picture located on the internet and also posted to one of Isabel's threads, there is a reporter standing in front of a large wooden gate that is inset within a wall. It looks to be a possible gate to a courtyard). If the gate(s) were secured then how would someone get into the yard and then leave that yard with an awake 6 yr old? Pack her over the fence? It's a question I haven't puzzled out in my mind yet. Any ideas?

(I am still contemplating how she was removed from the house and yard, I haven't gotten anywhere near to developing a theory yet )

I think she probably went out the garage door.

 

[MysteryAddict]

If LE is truly exploring all options, they'd need to consider the possibility that Isa (if by some chance Nancy Grace had her facts straight on this) had slept in the boys room for part of the night. If they took a bloodhound and it showed she had recently spent time in each of those two rooms, they'd likely do all their forensic testing in both rooms, just to be sure thy had covered their bases.

I can't answer the second part of your post, since all I know is that Isa was taken and the boys were not (which is the only reason I have for believing that they "would" take the 6 year old girl rather than the boys.

Isn't Isa's bedroom the only one of the kids' rooms with the large low window? Perhaps they would have abducted one of the boys if he had been the room that was most accessible, but that's not what happened.

Do we actually know what Isa's sleeping arrangements had been over the recent past
weeks?

Had this 6 yr. old girl been sleeping in the same room with her older brothers ?

If so, when did she switch to sleeping in the new room? I'm curious to know this.

Had this bedroom just been turned into Isa's room or was it unusual for her to
be there that night??

 

[Stash777]

I thought the next door neighbor with the barking dogs first stated the Cartel theory.

I found the video where she mentions the cartel rumor and posted it above (post #780).

 

[Prof]

I posted the following video in thread #13, page 3, post #59 but didn't think too much about the comment made by AS (neighbor that heard the dogs and talking men at 6:30 am) at 2:30 in the video. After all the theorizing going on about possible cartel involvement, I thought I remembered her saying something about it but didn't want to post without being able to link to the video. I finally figured out which video it was, so here it is:

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/18306084/finding-isabel-the-untold-investigation

AS "I have heard speculations on that the family is involved with drugs, the cartel." Again, this starts at 2:30 in the above linked video.

Just putting this out there, fwiw, as it is a linkable MSN video about the local rumors wrt a possible cartel connection.

GMTA! Thanks for the link!

 

[Patty G]

I thought the next door neighbor with the barking dogs first stated the Cartel theory.

I don't recall if the neighbor mentioned that or not, but I went and found the transcript from when she was on Nancy's show.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1204/26/ng.01.html

 

[spoiledmom]

I know the details of the Shockley case. The police did initially state they thought was she kidnapped, because she was nowhere to be found - until her older kids came forward with their information. Go ahead and Google "Phoenix kidnappings" or "phoenix drug kidnappings" and you will find the great majority of the links about the "rash of kidnappings" are from 2008-2010

OR they are like the ones below:

http://www.azcentral.com/community/...nix-police-chief-city-manager-conference.html

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2011...tistics-then-tried-to-debunk-his-own-numbers/

Also, I wouldn't expect Ms. Schockley to have too many ties to Mexico - at least not like the Celis Family who have relatives in Douglas , AZ. - just my opinion.

Yes, I am familiar with her case too. The mom reported her missing and they first believed it was a kidnapping. Now they believe she was murdered. They were in that landfill forever trying to find her body. I don't think they found anything. Poor child. I hope they didn't give her other kids back to her. I don't trust that woman.

 

[JDB]

This thread isn't off topic at all.

What was the topic ;-)