AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[mamamia54]

Here is a link to
http://gis.pima.gov/pictometry/
the Pima County Geographical Information Systems -- Pictometry Aerial Photos -- a addon might be required to use this site, but I found that it was well worth it. This can zoom and there's an icon you can click to walk around. "Neighborhood" imagery photographed at about 2000 to 2500 foot elevation with an average resolution of 4 to 6 inches per pixel, depending on the project year. (Pima County photos are all "Neighborhood" imagery.) "

It's like Google Earth but better IMO-- once you figure out how to use the icons.
I am not sure this link will work without first going to the first link, but this is the Celis home
http://gis.pima.gov/pictometry/latlon/llphotos.cfm?lat=32.22037&lon=-110.87285

The pictures here are from 2010.

I think I got this originally from Soul2Soul on a very early thread when we were looking at floorplans?

If one of those mapping sites can show the ground beneath the large fence, can someone look to see if the ground has been either scraped or dirt moved outward on a regular basis? I'm just interested to know, real life wise, what the ground looks like right there to see if that gate is even used.

 

[Prof]

Has anyone more fully outlined the events/timing from when Sergio called 911 to Rebecca arriving home?

My understanding so far is that Sergio called Rebecca and told her to come home and then he calls 911 (the youngest son was with him), while Sergio is still on the phone the oldest son calls 911 who then puts his mom, Rebecca, on the phone - was the oldest son back home when Rebecca got home and on the phone? How did Rebecca know the door was locked - maybe Sergio locked it as they went out to search? Isn't there a gate at the back of the property with the wooden part of the fence? Has anyone ever said it is locked, can't be opened? I'm trying to figure out why all the assumption that a perp went over the stucco wall, even Rebecca says this w/ the 911 operator.

Sergio calls 911 after he calls Becky
14 year old is out in the neighborhood searching at this time
towards the end of Sergio's call (5 or more minutes?) we can hear that the neighbor/son is on another call with 911
The neighbor is giving the son a ride back to the house as the son is speaking to 911 ---the ride lasts maybe a minute?
As the son gets back to the house Becky pulls up to the house and gets on the call with 911
This is when Sergio's call ends, when Becky is heard "freaking out."

 

[Prof]

Becky was speaking of the door being locked when she left for work in the morning IMO

 

[SmoothOperator]

Has anyone more fully outlined the events/timing from when Sergio called 911 to Rebecca arriving home?

My understanding so far is that Sergio called Rebecca and told her to come home and then he calls 911 (the youngest son was with him), while Sergio is still on the phone the oldest son calls 911 who then puts his mom, Rebecca, on the phone - was the oldest son back home when Rebecca got home and on the phone? How did Rebecca know the door was locked - maybe Sergio locked it as they went out to search? Isn't there a gate at the back of the property with the wooden part of the fence? Has anyone ever said it is locked, can't be opened? I'm trying to figure out why all the assumption that a perp went over the stucco wall, even Rebecca says this w/ the 911 operator.

Becky is the one who'd know that the door was locked due to the fact she was the first person to leave out of the home that morning while everyone one else was still sleeping.. hasn't anything to do with what happened when she arrived home from work.

 

[mamamia54]

If one of those mapping sites can show the ground beneath the large fence, can someone look to see if the ground has been either scraped or dirt moved outward on a regular basis? I'm just interested to know, real life wise, what the ground looks like right there to see if that gate is even used.

Or, even better, is there a local that can actually go out and take a picture?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Thanks for posting your theory! If it is a hoax, what are your ideas as to why? I pondered the hoax idea but all I could think of for the "why" answer is money. Which brings me to the parents and what I feel is a very limited amount of media/camera time. I think if it was for $ the parents would be in front of the camera a whole lot more than they have been.

Anyone else want to chime in on the hoax theory?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

I considered this early on and wondered why people would contribute to the search fund when the parents had not been cleared by LE. DH and I have made generous donations to various missing children's search funds and/or organizations like Texas Equusearch but only when we are sure that the family is in no way responsible for the family member's disappearance. In light of new information in the Celis' case regarding previous CPS involvement with the family and SC not allowed to see his sons, I wonder if folks will continue to contribute to the TMC account in the family's name. I wouldn't. :moo:

 

[Prof]

Maybe that alley/vehicle gate was locked, or was permanently closed to make the place safer, or keep the dogs from escaping again?

 

[time]

When I was in about 3rd grade, I had such an admiration for my father - who went to work everyday - that I created an "office" in my walk-in bedroom closet. I had an account ledger, a petty cash box, etc. (I even had a sign in sheet that my brother, who shared a room with me, had to sign to get into his own closet.) I'm not sticking up for anyone, but just want everyone to consider that just because a child may be in her closet, it doesn't always mean it is against her will.

I spent tons of time in my own closet (of my own free will!), my sisters, and my parents. I don't understand why people think this is strange at all. I don't think I wrote on the walls, but they were finished wood and I knew my dad really valued the work he had put into them. Plus, my medium was clay! I think too much is being made about any writing on the wall. I've known a lot of kids who have written on walls and other stuff, some in closets.

 

[Prof]

If one of those mapping sites can show the ground beneath the large fence, can someone look to see if the ground has been either scraped or dirt moved outward on a regular basis? I'm just interested to know, real life wise, what the ground looks like right there to see if that gate is even used.

I can certainly try...though the pics will be 2 years old

 

[mamamia54]

I considered this early on and wondered why people would contribute to the search fund when the parents had not been cleared by LE. DH and I have made generous donations to various missing children's search funds and/or organizations like Texas Equusearch but only when we are sure that the family is in no way responsible for the family member's disappearance. In light of new information in the Celis' case regarding previous CPS involvement with the family and SC not allowed to see his sons, I wonder if folks will continue to contribute to the TMC account in the family's name. I wouldn't. :moo:

BUT, we don't know if that prior call had anything to do with Isa. I have also given money for various agencies and on various cases, but this one is so different that I won't do it until we find out what actually could have happened here. As far as a hoax, I can't even wrap my mind around someone doing that for profit, and the cases that have come to light where it has been a hoax, I don't think there has been any profit, they have all gotten jail time, so that's way risky to me.

 

[WhatsupAZ]

Thanks for posting your theory! If it is a hoax, what are your ideas as to why? I pondered the hoax idea but all I could think of for the "why" answer is money. Which brings me to the parents and what I feel is a very limited amount of media/camera time. I think if it was for $ the parents would be in front of the camera a whole lot more than they have been.

Anyone else want to chime in on the hoax theory?

Not really wanting to chime in on the hoax theory bcauae I cannot fathom abybody actually pulling something like that off, then allowing it to go on despite speculation of abuse and whatnot without ending it...or being able to pulll one over on tpd/fbi, america... But:
if this was a hoax for money, less time in front of cameras would create exclusivity, worth more money.

Moo.. Still cannot see pulling off a hoax that big.

 

[mamamia54]

I can certainly try...though the pics will be 2 years old

Well, even two years old would be better than nothing, because we know the family has lived there since 2007. It would be better if a local could actually go out there and snap a more recent picture. Either way.

 

[katydid23]

I am very suspicious of Sergio, HOWEVER, I cannot figure out a believable scenario, in which he can make his child disappear that night. The closest I can come is if he snuck into her room in the middle of the night and she resisted and he was angry. But if he killed her, the dogs would have hit on her room, and I don't think that happened.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

BUT, we don't know if that prior call had anything to do with Isa. I have also given money for various agencies and on various cases, but this one is so different that I won't do it until we find out what actually could have happened here. As far as a hoax, I can't even wrap my mind around someone doing that for profit, and the cases that have come to light where it has been a hoax, I don't think there has been any profit, they have all gotten jail time, so that's way risky to me.

BBM. That wouldn't matter to me. Just knowing that CPS has visited the home previously suggests to me that all might not be well behind closed doors. :moo:

 

[mck16]

I considered this early on and wondered why people would contribute to the search fund when the parents had not been cleared by LE. DH and I have made generous donations to various missing children's search funds and/or organizations like Texas Equusearch but only when we are sure that the family is in no way responsible for the family member's disappearance. In light of new information in the Celis' case regarding previous CPS involvement with the family and SC not allowed to see his sons, I wonder if folks will continue to contribute to the TMC account in the family's name. I wouldn't. :moo:

I think I am missing what you are saying. Why would it matter if the parents were involved/ it is the child that is missing. Maybe I am misunderstanding. jmo

 

[time]

Maybe that alley/vehicle gate was locked, or was permanently closed to make the place safer, or keep the dogs from escaping again?

Becky is the one who'd know that the door was locked due to the fact she was the first person to leave out of the home that morning while everyone one else was still sleeping.. hasn't anything to do with what happened when she arrived home from work.

Ok... I understand. I guess I'm wondering if she could have left it unlocked after that or if there is any other door that could have been unlocked. We have several outside doors, but we make sure the door going into the garage is locked and the door from the garage into the house is locked ... they must have had at least one other outside door?

 

[KrazyKatLadi]

I am very suspicious of Sergio, HOWEVER, I cannot figure out a believable scenario, in which he can make his child disappear that night. The closest I can come is if he snuck into her room in the middle of the night and she resisted and he was angry. But if he killed her, the dogs would have hit on her room, and I don't think that happened.

I totally agree. How did he get her out of there without anyone seeing?? I get the feeling that if Becky knew he did it she'd turn him in. JMO

 

[Hatfield]

Becky is the one who'd know that the door was locked due to the fact she was the first person to leave out of the home that morning while everyone one else was still sleeping.. hasn't anything to do with what happened when she arrived home from work.

I don't know....something really bothers me when she shares this information below without even being asked about it.

"Q: Okay. Does uh, any uh, marks, scars?
A2 (RC): Other than the window out, I can't see anything else. And the door is locked to the outside, so they had to have jumped over the fence or, I dont know what they did, but oh my god, the cops are here, can I just hang up.. "

She had just gotten home, and had not yet talked with SC. She just got handed the phone from the boy to finish talking to the 911 operators that the boy was talking to. So, to begin to explain that the perp had to have jumped over the fence seems a little too much to throw in at the time. Also, it seems she may have realized that when she adds...."or I dont know what they dd". It is just bothersome.

But another MAIN thing that bothers me is that if she had just gotten home, surely she would have rushed in to confront the husband. Wouldn't any of us?
Why, OH WHY, OR HOW even, could she possibly have wanted to get on the phone and begin talking to 911 operators before even talking to her husband, because remember, she had already gotten a call from SC, so she knew her child was missing. She would normally be rushing home to go talk with him in person about it, and surely she would have told him to call 911 as she hung up with him to rush home. I just cannot see her, at that exact instance, taking the time to provide all these details about hair, etc. to a 911 operator when she hasn't even talked with SC yet after rushing home!!!

I also don't like the comment from SC about the Mom may be calling 911 too. How did he think that the Mom may call 911. Was there a plan to maybe have the Mom, the boy, and the dad all call 911?
This is bothersome to me. Something doesnt feel right about the details in the calls.

JMO of course.

 

[Whisperer]

I considered this source. If she is a key witness, LE most likely asked her not to talk to the media, but she did anyway without hesitation that first week. Of course she had to add her opinion about drug cartels, too...hmmn biased much?

What also bothers me about her statement is my question a perp who calmly talks right next to two dogs going nuts at 6:30 am on a Saturday morning, while a dog in a house nearby (hers) is also barking? Whether it was two perps or two trash collectors or two people in their own yard, how could they stand there and chat with dogs going nuts? and if they were doing something secretly, how could they continue when dogs were making a racket in two nearby yards/houses? Even if the dogs bark all of the time, why take the chance of doing something bad when the alarm is going off? don't most perps run at this point?. Lastly, how could she hear the men speaking over the dogs going nuts?
It's just been difficult to understand this statement IMO

I think the dogs barked frantically at first, then quieted down after they saw who it was....thus allowing the people to be heard talking.

 

[time]

Maybe that alley/vehicle gate was locked, or was permanently closed to make the place safer, or keep the dogs from escaping again?

I would think that is true, just odd I can't remember hearing LE or anyone explicitly stating this. Maybe I missed it?