AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #17

[Spice-Nine]

:maddening:

Why was dad in charge of showers?
Where was Rebecca?

IMO there is no indication, statement, account, or implication SC was, "in charge of showers".
IMO this question sprung from a misunderstanding posted this afternoon in which SC is protrayed as having asked his daughter about taking a shower and the child responded with a negative. Aside from being misrepresented, this then was interpreted as the child rejecting an inappropriate advance from her father.
IMO this is both inaccurate and irresponsible. It is either the NBC interview with Ms. Curry or the SC and RC press conf. with the local, Tuscon press from which the erroneous interpretation might have been developed. At a point in the interview, SC is asked about when he last saw Isabel and he responds describing how RC had just braided Isa's hair and when the child walked past him, SC asked her if she was hungry. Isabel is described as sleepy and is reported to have responded, "No Daddy".
IMO an innocent, routine encounter has been transformed into one both sexual innuendo filled and sordid.:maddening:
I will attempt to post the NBC interview or another accurate link later unless someone has easy access and ability to post the link sooner. Thank you.

 

[cluciano63]

Okay, I am answering my own question...RC has on her FB page that she went to high school in Nevada and college in Arizona. So I guess I have trouble seeing why it presumed she should have a language and cultural barrier and not be able to say what she means. I keep seeing posts saying she probably say this or that due to her language issues..anyway, JMO

 

[johnQpublic]

Here's another thing that kinda bothers me is not only was the evidence at the house cleaned up really well (allegedly by the abductor) but this family did not do a very good job of preventing cross contamination of evidence by running all over the house, in and out of the doors, touching things, possibly moving the screen when the kid found it off ( which is how I think the screen got from the side yard where Isa's window is to the backyard. ) They simply ruined the scene, The dad should have had those boy's stay in thier room while he went out the main front door and walked around the house and been very careful in what he touched or moved. If you ask me having the kids run amuck looking and touching everything was a very bad move on dads part. JMO but man how they made it a mess for LE, The very minute he suspected her missing he should have called 911.. IMO

 

[Madame_X]

They have what's referred to as a residential dumpster. Its a Large black plastic trash can.. They typically stay in the alley and are not exactly easy nor clean enough to move around, The tops are also pretty flimsy and not the best thing to stand on top of. My best guess as far as something to use to get over the fence would be the cable ped on the southeast corner of the property in the alley.

The one I'm looking at in the back of the alley in Google street view has rear-wheels and is exactly what we have in Phoenix. We roll it out to the curb on pickup day and roll it back behind the gate (as is mandated by our HOA) afterward.

 

[prima.facie]

Yes, I recall her producer stating he was 5'8" and he was able to lift his leg up onto the edge of the wall for a moment. As we walked down the wall towards the wooden gate, it got shorter and there was something there you could stand on.

I think it would be VERY easy to get into the yard, the hard part would be carrying out a 44lb 6 yo. This is the part I keep turning over in my mind. So when SC said in the interview that they did not know if the window was the point of entry/exit or whatever, I have tried to figure out how someone could get out through the interior of the house without waking up a sleeping SC on the couch in the den. I keep getting stumped there. Any theory's anyone?

....all awhile the "napper" had to know: EXACTLY what room she was in, that she was alone, that the dogs (if outside) would neither attack nor alert them, if dogs were inside then they would not attack nor alert nor be sleeping in her room, that there were no alarms.....all awhile keeping a child QUIET & STILL w/out a human or dog hearing a damn thing.

YEAH RIGHT! someone was reading mama Irwin's book on "how to...."


looking at the totallity of circumstances (of what we know) how the hell did some random stranger get so lucky to have the PERFECT STORM OF OPPORTUNITY???

the things that make you go.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[marazul]

I just also want to point out that it is not been said that SC spent the whole night on the couch. I heard him say he was watching the game at 12, but I missed where it was stated that he fell asleep on the couch and remained there until waking in the AM. He could have gone back to the master bedroom at some point, correct? Or is it 100% certain that he spent the whole night on the couch?

 

[FrayedKnot]

Regarding The Huffington post link this morning provided by Emerald Eyes, it is my understanding that HuffPo is MSM.

There are comments posted on the 3rd page underneath the article that someone here noticed. The poster provides specific information on the Dec. CPS visit as far as who it concerned, and they also claim to have inside information about what LE think happened to Isabele. They are comments from a poster, same as the comments on any other blog site including this one so have to be taken for what they are worth.

The comments actually coincide with something I have felt from the beginning, that being, IF Isabele isn't and wasn't dead at the hands of a family member, then this is a hoax somehow manufactured by the dad and/or family, for enrichment or some other motive.
I posted about this in late April here on this site <modsnip> but a lot of what has happened in this case lines up with that scenario:

• SC's calm demeanor on the 911 call, as if he knew his daughter wasn't in any danger
• The immediate "she was abducted" comments to LE from all family members and even JM, as if they were telling them what to think
• The staged 'abducution" scene
• LE searching the boys' FB pages and interviewing their friends about what they might have told them orior to the disappearance (fishing for pre-talk of a planned abduction)
• Their reluctance to do media because maybe they would have felt their story couldn't stand up to scrutinty AND the "tell us your demands" comment
• The lack of searches by LE except what they had to do (and Pacheco actually used those exact words!) to rule anything else out.

And on and on.

The Balloon Boy hoax cost the state of Colorado in excess of $50,000 and sent Richard Heane to jail.

If Isabele Celis is not dead by the hands of someone in the family, then my money is on this being a hoax. A very, very expensive hoax, and if that turns out to be the case, I hope the state of Arizona can get their money back.

Respectfully, how is that any less far fetched than the F&F theory?

In fact there is more possible documentation to support F&F than there is the family perpetrating a hoax for money.

With that said, I respect your theory and your right to post it without other posters ranting at you for your theory!

JMO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nobodynoz]

They have what's referred to as a residential dumpster. Its a Large black plastic trash can.. They typically stay in the alley and are not exactly easy nor clean enough to move around, The tops are also pretty flimsy and not the best thing to stand on top of. My best guess as far as something to use to get over the fence would be the cable ped on the southeast corner of the property in the alley.

Here's the site that describes alley trash container rules for Tucson.

http://cms3.tucsonaz.gov/es/customer-services-residential-trash

 

[johnQpublic]

Yes, I recall her producer stating he was 5'8" and he was able to lift his leg up onto the edge of the wall for a moment. As we walked down the wall towards the wooden gate, it got shorter and there was something there you could stand on.

I think it would be VERY easy to get into the yard, the hard part would be carrying out a 44lb 6 yo. This is the part I keep turning over in my mind. So when SC said in the interview that they did not know if the window was the point of entry/exit or whatever, I have tried to figure out how someone could get out through the interior of the house without waking up a sleeping SC on the couch in the den. I keep getting stumped there. Any theory's anyone?

IDK but I have been able to get over 6' walls in Phoenix with a tool bag and a drill set and manage to get a 32' ladder over the wall as well.. The perp could have just swung her over the fence and stood her up in the alley.. but at the moment I'm not thinking the perp even went over any walls I think they just went out the gate or the door in the front yard wall or that the window really did not have anything todo with it except being messed with. JMO @ the moment... I have tryed to look at a few angles and it's very hard to remain unbiased at some points because the more you learn about the family and extended family it just makes it a tough call.

 

[cluciano63]

I just also want to point out that it is not been said that SC spent the whole night on the couch. I heard him say he was watching the game at 12, but I missed where it was stated that he fell asleep on the couch and remained there until waking in the AM. He could have gone back to the master bedroom at some point, correct? Or is it 100% certain that he spent the whole night on the couch?

No but since he indicated that he would/should have heard something as he was right next to Isabel's room, it tends to sound like he spent the night there. Otherwise how would know when she might have been taken that he did not hear?

 

[FrayedKnot]

Well, this thread is just not the same... Hopefully ALL our members will be around here again, soon.

Jmo

*looks in mirror to check resemblance to chopped liver*


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[katydid23]

I just also want to point out that it is not been said that SC spent the whole night on the couch. I heard him say he was watching the game at 12, but I missed where it was stated that he fell asleep on the couch and remained there until waking in the AM. He could have gone back to the master bedroom at some point, correct? Or is it 100% certain that he spent the whole night on the couch?

It is not 100% certain, but he did make it sound like he was just on the other side of the wall when she went missing. IMO

 

[marazul]

Okay, I am answering my own question...RC has on her FB page that she went to high school in Nevada and college in Arizona. So I guess I have trouble seeing why it presumed she should have a language and cultural barrier and not be able to say what she means. I keep seeing posts saying she probably say this or that due to her language issues..anyway, JMO

I grew up bilingual, educated through college in the US, and my opinion is that bilingual people tend to think in one language, and speak in two, and while their grammar might be impeccable when writing or concentrating, in casual conversation thing get mixed up sometimes. I consider myself intelligent and well spoken, but when in a panic, or after a drink or two, or even sometimes in everyday exchanges, my Spanish thinking causes errors and miscommunication in my English speaking,

 

[mamamia54]

I just also want to point out that it is not been said that SC spent the whole night on the couch. I heard him say he was watching the game at 12, but I missed where it was stated that he fell asleep on the couch and remained there until waking in the AM. He could have gone back to the master bedroom at some point, correct? Or is it 100% certain that he spent the whole night on the couch?

Sergio Celis is heard on the 911 tape saying, "They all went to bed and I was even up late watching the Diamondbacks game at midnight and I fell asleep and I never heard anything weird and I was just on the other side of the wall from her."
http://tinyurl.com/855f23g

I guess my question is, where is Isa's room, where would Sergio have been sleeping if she was on the other side of the wall from where he was?

 

[WhatsupAZ]

Can't answer your question, but on NG there appeared to be a large trash bin(s) outside the gate on the alley side (I think). I was just wondering if those just stay out there or do they set them out every week on pickup day like we do. If they set them out, how do they get them out. I guess it would not be via the back wooden gate?

Those trash cans are huge and very heavy...a short person has a hard time hoisting garbage bags up and in. They are not easily moved, would take two men, imo. We call the truck that picks up the trash the "robot truck" because of the arm used. I considered weather or not one could climb up on it during that awful NG bit with the poor guy in the alley... I think they are too tall to climb up on.
eta..they are perm out in the alley.

 

[katydid23]

No but since he indicated that he would/should have heard something as he was right next to Isabel's room, it tends to sound like he spent the night there. Otherwise how would know when she might have been taken that he did not hear?

You said it better than I did, but I posted a similar reply.

And IF he had gotten up and moved, why not say so.

 

[SmoothOperator]

Hmm... I think this is a very good theory. I don't really know anymore, but I wondered last night as I put together the CPS visit in Dec, the dog violations in April, and the neighbor claiming they were into drugs and maybe even connected to a cartel. Maybe far fetched but could they have someone (a neighbor, relative, or acquaintance) who has been dogging them for some reason and reporting them? Perhaps this is based on some real concerns or not.

Above BBM and highlighted red for emphasis..
time, this is not in any way specifically directed at you or asked of you specifically .... It's been stated multiple times and you just happen to have brought it up at a moment in time where I have the time available to actually post asking about the specific source from which this info came.. So, to anyone who knows could someone post a link??.. Or if not a link just point me in a general direction of where I can find these statements made by the neighbor?? A huge TIA to whoever has a moment to reply and help me finally resolve this issue for me :sigh:..

In other posts I've seen this statement even be specifically sourced as coming from the guest house neighbor, Alisha Sturdevant .. It's this that I believe has me the most confused and left scratching my head as to just how damn contradictory this statement, if indeed made by her, is when her initial statements are the complete opposite of her only seeing a quiet, reserved family with no regular traffic coming/going from the Celis home..????!?????!!??!.. It is her having made those statements of a completely opposite nature that leave me with such huge questioning of her having contradicted herself in such an extreme way by stating that she saw many people regularly coming/going from the home and even rumblings and suspicions of drug connections and even talk of cartel involvement??!?!!

WTH?!?! How does that even in the very slightest coincide with her statements that the Celis' seemed like a quiet, normal family who she mostly saw/heard the Celis' 3 kids outside playing with the occasional sighting of mom or dad outside as well?!?!!? That's a baffling, stark contrast from drug dealing and possible cartel involvement!!

Again TIA to whoever can point me in the direction of this specific statement having been made..

Hmmmm.......I really think this could be a very real possibility now the more I think about it. Especially after seeing what the son said in the 911 call about the "neighbor" below. This comes out of nowhere, and I think he was maybe talking to the driver and maybe he was thinking who may have been responsible for her going missing (indirectly maybe by neighbors always calling CPS + parents removing her to keep CPS from taking her)!!!

I couldn't bold it for some reason, but put it in ASTERISK Below!!!

Q - &#8230;what's your sister's name?

A &#8211; Isabel Mercedes Celis.

Q &#8211; Cely, Celis you said?

A &#8211; Yeah, Celis.

Q &#8211; Okay.

**********************************************
A &#8211; Hopefully not neighbors, she was &#8230; (inaudible).
**********************************************

A1 &#8211; Where?

A &#8211; Right there where you see the kid outside.

A1 &#8211; Oh.

A &#8211; Yeah, just hold on.

Q &#8211; Okay. Who's the one that didn't find her, you or your dad?

That comes out of nowhere. I think he was thinking who may have been responsible for her being missing. Either directly or the parents removing her from the house because of complaints from the neighbor to CPS or something along those lines. The parents could have been very frightened of a perceived threat of CPS taking her away. Especially, if they had a neighbor calling on them all the time.

First off, thanks hatfield for joining in on Isa's case discussion.. Ive read many of your thoughts and opinions on the Holly Bobo case and believe that's what initially brought you out of lurking to join WS and post. I appreciate and value your opinions and views in her case as well as here in Isa's:. God let's pray that Isa's doesn't reach that one year anniversary that we just had pass in Holly's case.. And IMO literally we are not any closer to the truth or finding Holly than we were 1 month into her disappearance.. I am desperate to NOT HAVE ANOTHER CASE TAKE THIS SAME HORRID PATH!!! ray:

As for the above noted specific portion of the eldest brothers 911 call.. Great find and thanks for bringing it to our attention.. I tend to agree with your thoughts on possibly what it could indeed be indicating.. Definitely a path worth discussing, digging, and looking further into..jmo, tho

Thank you for posting this. In all the postings re: cps, I have not seen anyone pass this information along. jmo

Hi mck16 haven't seen ya around in the last couple days.. That's not to say you've been absent just more likely that my having limited time to check in I've just missed ya
Anywhoo.. Your above observation is none too surprising IMO as this info doesn't help support most theories therefor it's just ignored or disregarded.:sigh:
I, too was pleased to see this info and find it to be extremely important and relevant to the case..
Jmo, tho!

In this interview, he states that he is a surgical assistant.
"Sergio:The office I work at every day, have their full support. Tremendous gratitude for the time they are giving me. But I know I have to go back to work. I am a surgical assistant. There are a lot of surgeries. And I cannot say enough about the Arizona Opera Company."

http://www.kgun9.com/news/local/150175035.html

It occurs to me that we know more about RC'a job partly because the hospital has been strongly supporting her. I don't recall this happening with SC job.

Thanks for finding this Shelby as I know that many have been looking for a statement that informed what exactly was it that Sergio did for a living as its not been clear.. I know many were finding issue with this stating surgical asst when we've supposedly been told that Sergio works in the dental field as hygienist or asst.. I many moons ago worked as a dental asst in an oral surgery private practice and IMO this is likely exactly what type dentistry Sergio worked as well.. Which would be correct that he'd be a surgical asst.. Which is basically for all intents and purposes a dental asst that works in an oral surgery practice..jmo, tho!

Patty G, So does this include that photo of the grbage can next to the wall ? TIA

In google maps from 2008 I did not see garbage cans present at all.. But in looking for the specific footage of the reporter actually standing at that corner of the Celis property where the back alley meets with the street.. And where the stucco wall drops to its lowest height and meets at the corner of the wooden fence.. It is this exact spot where the reporter is specifically speaking of and showing the black garbage can(labeled, marked and illustrated position and height with large red rectangle in photo) as the reporter also demonstrates its apparent sturdiness and specifically remarks that IT DOES NOT HAVE WHEELS AT IT'S BASE this making it much more of a reliant help in popping over the shortest area of wall.. And/or exiting from the property back over the stucco wall with the aid of the garbage can..

I found that tho google maps doesn't show the garbage cans that google earth actually does show the large black garbage cans.. You can clearly see them dotted along that back alley way behind the Celis home..

just showing one of various different "possible" points of entry.. Jmo, tho..



____________________...
Posting via mobile as well as via tablet so plz forgive all typos.. Btwn the sucky touch keyboard and the obsessive auto-correct it's a big ol' mess :crazy:

 

[Madame_X]

Those trash cans are huge and very heavy...a short person has a hard time hoisting garbage bags up and in. They are not easily moved, would take two men, imo. We call the truck that picks up the trash the "robot truck" because of the arm used. I considered weather or not one could climb up on it during that awful NG bit with the poor guy in the alley... I think they are too tall to climb up on.

They don't take two men to move unless they're filled with heavy garbage.

We have the same cans. We are required to put them behind our gate by 6:00pm on pickup day or we get fined by our HOA.

I realize they're picked up by a robotic arm, but there are rear wheels on them. You tilt them backwards and roll it, like a dolly. I have zero issue moving ours by myself.

 

[txanmom]

I just also want to point out that it is not been said that SC spent the whole night on the couch. I heard him say he was watching the game at 12, but I missed where it was stated that he fell asleep on the couch and remained there until waking in the AM. He could have gone back to the master bedroom at some point, correct? Or is it 100% certain that he spent the whole night on the couch?

The reason I said that (or assumed that) is the SC himself said he was watching the Diamondbacks game right on the other side of the wall from her and never heard a thing. per the 911 call.

 

[Anita Richman]

Yes, I recall her producer stating he was 5'8" and he was able to lift his leg up onto the edge of the wall for a moment. As we walked down the wall towards the wooden gate, it got shorter and there was something there you could stand on.

I think it would be VERY easy to get into the yard, the hard part would be carrying out a 44lb 6 yo. This is the part I keep turning over in my mind. So when SC said in the interview that they did not know if the window was the point of entry/exit or whatever, I have tried to figure out how someone could get out through the interior of the house without waking up a sleeping SC on the couch in the den. I keep getting stumped there. Any theory's anyone?

Here's a theory: Some Brian David Mitchell-esque creeper, with a mentally ill and codependent female cohort see pretty Isa and decide she belongs to them. They begin stalking her. Due to the close proximity to the church and businesses/bus line, there is much foot traffic in the area which would mask their presence. In a practice run the week before the abuction, the duo feeds and befriends, then sets free the family dogs. They use the family ladder laying in the back yard to climb on the roof and redirect the surveillance camera.

The evening of the abduction, after the family goes to sleep, he grabs a sleeping Isa from her bed and carries her out the back door, across the backyard and hands her over the wall to his female partner.