AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #19

[SweetT]

Yes. It was NOT a random stranger taking a random child. If it was a random stranger, Isa was targeted.

Right, how many other kids live on that street or near this particular home?

 

[spoiledmom]

Something tells me that LE is very close to an arrest. IDK I just have that feeling. By the way, for those of you that don't know LE had a suspect under surveillance in the Sierra La Mar case for nearly two months but remained quiet about it until they had all their ducks in a row. They didn't even mention a POI. It is my opinion that the same is happening with this case and I believe that SC is at least one of the people involved and he knows that he is being watched. But I have a feeling he isn't alone in this. JMO.

 

[azmary]

Right, how many other kids live on that street or near this particular home?

I think le is gonna "go for it"
I see this investigating to r/o people in the neighborhood as preparing for a case.
JMO

 

[GutFeeling!]

Since we don't know the precise reason why CPS has prohibited Sergio from seeing his sons, I wondered if it might have been because Dad was doing some "witness tampering" by trying to influence how his boys responded to investigative questioning in their sister's disappearance. If that were the case, isn't it possible that Becky could do the same thing?

Now that we've heard Becky defend Sergio publicly, it wouldn't surprise me if she, too, might try to influence the boys. If Sergio and Becky are speaking with each other regularly, who's to say that he isn't still "coaching" his sons through their mother? :moo:

But witness tampering is a police matter not CPS.

 

[Ransom]

Since we don't know the precise reason why CPS has prohibited Sergio from seeing his sons, I wondered if it might have been because Dad was doing some "witness tampering" by trying to influence how his boys responded to investigative questioning in their sister's disappearance. If that were the case, isn't it possible that Becky could do the same thing?

Now that we've heard Becky defend Sergio publicly, it wouldn't surprise me if she, too, might try to influence the boys. If Sergio and Becky are speaking with each other regularly, who's to say that he isn't still "coaching" his sons through their mother? :moo:

IMHO, "coaching" is not something CPS would get involved in.

 

[azmary]

Since the family doesn't want to be in the public and ask for IC return a wise move by le to involve CPS make sure the family didn't stop the kids from being questioned early in the investigation. As it is apparent they don't want to talk.

 

[EquineLuvr]

Hi y'all!! After reading through a couple of threads and enjoying your contributions, I thought it was time to chime in here.

I'm a latecomer to this case, even though I live in Tucson and am a veteran armchair sleuth. Classes at Pima start next Tue. :woohoo: , and getting enrolled, etc. has taken up much of my time the last few weeks.

Immediately I distrusted the "intruder through Isa's window" scenario. It seemed like amateurish staging, and TPD did say back on 04/22 that there was NO evidence of foced entry into the house (see KVOA's "complete coverage" page). Plus good ole fashioned horse sense says that the odds of someone snatching her from her bedroom under those conditions (high wall surrounding property, 3 dogs on site, in daylight, etc.) are pretty slim.

I am no fan of TPD, however I DO trust the technology, skills, competence, and professionalism of the FBI and the U.S. Marshals. Too many LE and former LE have stated off the record that Sergio has a major debt to one of the drug cartels, and frankly I believe it (where there's smoke, there's fire). Just because someone puts on a very public face does not mean that they are drug-free, honest, law-abiding, a good parent, or even sane. Many people "project" positive traits onto total strangers just because they have reproduced. I should know -- this is my childhood in a nutshell. I am the product of such parents, and everyone thought they were "pillars of the community" because they were highly functional. In reality, nothing could have been further from the truth.

BTW, just because SC can sing doesn't mean he's not abusing drugs. Smoking is only one form of administration. As for him not having the time, well if the man doesn't work (or only works PT) then that opens up a significant window of free time so keeping coaching, etc. committments is not such a big deal.

In every interview of SC and RC that I have seen, they have exhibited signs of lying. (Several years ago I was fortunate to receive a tutorial from a retired FBI agent who specialized in body language.) That impression of mine has been buttressed by specialists hired by both local and national media. Then there was the telltale interview with local media where SC had his hands completely wrapped around RC's right arm, and he remained as still as a statue so as to prohibit any spontaneous gesticulations. It was glaringly obvious! IF they had passed their lie detector tests, they both would have been screaming it from the rooftops. But we have only silence and evasiveness ("we can't talk about that").

RC has made some truly bizarre statements that just creeped me out. One was something like, "Well, we absolutely don't like being here doing this. But you know what? It doesn't matter... We are here doing it, whatever it takes to bring Isabel home." If it doesn't matter when why bring it up? When your child is missing the focus should be on her, not yourself. "Whatever it takes," right?

It is very "interesting" to me that a nurse and a surgical assistant could afford to buy a $435,000 house. The house has 3802 sq. ft., even though eyeballing it it appears to have about 2400 sq. ft. Also, it has 1.5 stories, and since we don't have attics in Tucson I'm wondering about the "half" story. Is there a fortified underground bunker, and does that account for the missing square footage, the "half" story, and the high price of the house? If SC is a drug dealer that wouldn't be farfetched. The house has been on the brink of foreclosure a couple of times, so their financial picture hasn't been great. To me that is notable because "desperate times require desperate measures."

Speaking of SC being a surg assist, why has his employer not been identified? Why haven't they come forward to show support like TMC did for RC? Why has nobody been able to find SC's state license?

There have been too many creepy things and red flags in this case to list in toto here, but they include: Cousin/Uncle Justin, Isabel reportedly sleeping in her brother's room (for protection/safety from her father?), the CPS involvement, the defensive statements by SC's sister at an inappropriate time, etc.

For about an hour I entertained the hoax theory, but that theory is mutually exclusive with SC being a drug dealer. No drug dealer is going to call LE to his home and risk the subsequent scrutiny (phone call records, e-mails, financial records, etc.) to perpetuate a hoax. It's one or the other, and I don't believe this is a hoax.

I also have not ruled out sexual abuse which culminated in some kind of incident resulting in her death, which then required manufacture of the "kidnapped" tale.

This whole thing stinks like a rotten fish and has from Day One. Something is not right here, and I have to conclude that the public has been fed a line of BS. My prediction is that LE will approach RC and she will agree to supply evidence against SC in order to take him down in exchange for her own complete or partial immunity. Only time will tell if I'm right about that one or not.

Of course, all of the above is just my opinion. Thanks for reading, and I look forward to interacting with you here!

EquineLuvr

 

[SurfieTX]

Welcome to Websleuths, Equine. Great first post and I agree with you 100%.

 

[GutFeeling!]

Since the family doesn't want to be in the public and ask for IC return a wise move by le to involve CPS make sure the family didn't stop the kids from being questioned early in the investigation. As it is apparent they don't want to talk.

I am not sure I understand. The police have said that the family is cooperating. Involving CPS from day one is normal procedure - it wasn't for weeks after that the no contact came in. We know everyone has been spoken too, we even saw the older child go in to the house alone with police.

They don't want to talk publicly it seems and that is their choice (no matter how bad we think that is) I have seen families not want to talk publicly when there is no shadow of a doubt they are not guilty of any crime for a missing person (referring to an elderly lady that wandered off)

 

[Ransom]

Since the family doesn't want to be in the public and ask for IC return a wise move by le to involve CPS make sure the family didn't stop the kids from being questioned early in the investigation. As it is apparent they don't want to talk.

CPS doesn't have that kind of broad authority or mandate to do that. LE has talked to all the family and have said many times "they are cooperating" and "continues to cooperate".

Example: Villasenor said that the family has cooperated fully with the investigation.
http://www.kvoa.com/full-coverage/finding-isabel/

 

[sayd]

Hi y'all!! After reading through a couple of threads and enjoying your contributions, I thought it was time to chime in here.

I'm a latecomer to this case, even though I live in Tucson and am a veteran armchair sleuth. Classes at Pima start next Tue. :woohoo: , and getting enrolled, etc. has taken up much of my time the last few weeks.

Immediately I distrusted the "intruder through Isa's window" scenario. It seemed like amateurish staging, and TPD did say back on 04/22 that there was NO evidence of foced entry into the house (see KVOA's "complete coverage" page). Plus good ole fashioned horse sense says that the odds of someone snatching her from her bedroom under those conditions (high wall surrounding property, 3 dogs on site, in daylight, etc.) are pretty slim.

I am no fan of TPD, however I DO trust the technology, skills, competence, and professionalism of the FBI and the U.S. Marshals. Too many LE and former LE have stated off the record that Sergio has a major debt to one of the drug cartels, and frankly I believe it (where there's smoke, there's fire). Just because someone puts on a very public face does not mean that they are drug-free, honest, law-abiding, a good parent, or even sane. Many people "project" positive traits onto total strangers just because they have reproduced. I should know -- this is my childhood in a nutshell. I am the product of such parents, and everyone thought they were "pillars of the community" because they were highly functional. In reality, nothing could have been further from the truth.

BTW, just because SC can sing doesn't mean he's not abusing drugs. Smoking is only one form of administration. As for him not having the time, well if the man doesn't work (or only works PT) then that opens up a significant window of free time so keeping coaching, etc. committments is not such a big deal.

In every interview of SC and RC that I have seen, they have exhibited signs of lying. (Several years ago I was fortunate to receive a tutorial from a retired FBI agent who specialized in body language.) That impression of mine has been buttressed by specialists hired by both local and national media. Then there was the telltale interview with local media where SC had his hands completely wrapped around RC's right arm, and he remained as still as a statue so as to prohibit any spontaneous gesticulations. It was glaringly obvious! IF they had passed their lie detector tests, they both would have been screaming it from the rooftops. But we have only silence and evasiveness ("we can't talk about that").

RC has made some truly bizarre statements that just creeped me out. One was something like, "Well, we absolutely don't like being here doing this. But you know what? It doesn't matter... We are here doing it, whatever it takes to bring Isabel home." If it doesn't matter when why bring it up? When your child is missing the focus should be on her, not yourself. "Whatever it takes," right?

It is very "interesting" to me that a nurse and a surgical assistant could afford to buy a $435,000 house. The house has 3802 sq. ft., even though eyeballing it it appears to have about 2400 sq. ft. Also, it has 1.5 stories, and since we don't have attics in Tucson I'm wondering about the "half" story. Is there a fortified underground bunker, and does that account for the missing square footage, the "half" story, and the high price of the house? If SC is a drug dealer that wouldn't be farfetched. The house has been on the brink of foreclosure a couple of times, so their financial picture hasn't been great. To me that is notable because "desperate times require desperate measures."

Speaking of SC being a surg assist, why has his employer not been identified? Why haven't they come forward to show support like TMC did for RC? Why has nobody been able to find SC's state license?

There have been too many creepy things and red flags in this case to list in toto here, but they include: Cousin/Uncle Justin, Isabel reportedly sleeping in her brother's room (for protection/safety from her father?), the CPS involvement, the defensive statements by SC's sister at an inappropriate time, etc.

For about an hour I entertained the hoax theory, but that theory is mutually exclusive with SC being a drug dealer. No drug dealer is going to call LE to his home and risk the subsequent scrutiny (phone call records, e-mails, financial records, etc.) to perpetuate a hoax. It's one or the other, and I don't believe this is a hoax.

I also have not ruled out sexual abuse which culminated in some kind of incident resulting in her death, which then required manufacture of the "kidnapped" tale.

This whole thing stinks like a rotten fish and has from Day One. Something is not right here, and I have to conclude that the public has been fed a line of BS. My prediction is that LE will approach RC and she will agree to supply evidence against SC in order to take him down in exchange for her own complete or partial immunity. Only time will tell if I'm right about that one or not.

Of course, all of the above is just my opinion. Thanks for reading, and I look forward to interacting with you here!

EquineLuvr

Great first post! Glad you chimed in!

 

[GutFeeling!]

May be worth noting when we refer to "the FBI" - don't think there is a huge team of folks from the FBI - usually it is one or 2 - their main aim is to be available for federal charges and also be able to provide resources to local departments with ease. Same as US Marshalls

 

[galiuro]

So...no yellow ribbons means exactly what??? That neither the parents nor Tucson care that Isa comes back?

Since it is apparently a big deal to some that Isa remain in people's minds it seems to me that the posters with her PICTURE on it are more important than ribbons. And those posters are still EVERYWHERE, at least on my end of town.Admittedly I work very close to her home but I live farther to the north and still see the posters up there...

 

[Theforeigner]

Hi y'all!! After reading through a couple of threads and enjoying your contributions, I thought it was time to chime in here.

I'm a latecomer to this case, even though I live in Tucson and am a veteran armchair sleuth. Classes at Pima start next Tue. :woohoo: , and getting enrolled, etc. has taken up much of my time the last few weeks.

Immediately I distrusted the "intruder through Isa's window" scenario. It seemed like amateurish staging, and TPD did say back on 04/22 that there was NO evidence of foced entry into the house (see KVOA's "complete coverage" page). Plus good ole fashioned horse sense says that the odds of someone snatching her from her bedroom under those conditions (high wall surrounding property, 3 dogs on site, in daylight, etc.) are pretty slim.

I am no fan of TPD, however I DO trust the technology, skills, competence, and professionalism of the FBI and the U.S. Marshals. Too many LE and former LE have stated off the record that Sergio has a major debt to one of the drug cartels, and frankly I believe it (where there's smoke, there's fire). Just because someone puts on a very public face does not mean that they are drug-free, honest, law-abiding, a good parent, or even sane. Many people "project" positive traits onto total strangers just because they have reproduced. I should know -- this is my childhood in a nutshell. I am the product of such parents, and everyone thought they were "pillars of the community" because they were highly functional. In reality, nothing could have been further from the truth.

BTW, just because SC can sing doesn't mean he's not abusing drugs. Smoking is only one form of administration. As for him not having the time, well if the man doesn't work (or only works PT) then that opens up a significant window of free time so keeping coaching, etc. committments is not such a big deal.

In every interview of SC and RC that I have seen, they have exhibited signs of lying. (Several years ago I was fortunate to receive a tutorial from a retired FBI agent who specialized in body language.) That impression of mine has been buttressed by specialists hired by both local and national media. Then there was the telltale interview with local media where SC had his hands completely wrapped around RC's right arm, and he remained as still as a statue so as to prohibit any spontaneous gesticulations. It was glaringly obvious! IF they had passed their lie detector tests, they both would have been screaming it from the rooftops. But we have only silence and evasiveness ("we can't talk about that").

RC has made some truly bizarre statements that just creeped me out. One was something like, "Well, we absolutely don't like being here doing this. But you know what? It doesn't matter... We are here doing it, whatever it takes to bring Isabel home." If it doesn't matter when why bring it up? When your child is missing the focus should be on her, not yourself. "Whatever it takes," right?

It is very "interesting" to me that a nurse and a surgical assistant could afford to buy a $435,000 house. The house has 3802 sq. ft., even though eyeballing it it appears to have about 2400 sq. ft. Also, it has 1.5 stories, and since we don't have attics in Tucson I'm wondering about the "half" story. Is there a fortified underground bunker, and does that account for the missing square footage, the "half" story, and the high price of the house? If SC is a drug dealer that wouldn't be farfetched. The house has been on the brink of foreclosure a couple of times, so their financial picture hasn't been great. To me that is notable because "desperate times require desperate measures."

Speaking of SC being a surg assist, why has his employer not been identified? Why haven't they come forward to show support like TMC did for RC? Why has nobody been able to find SC's state license?

There have been too many creepy things and red flags in this case to list in toto here, but they include: Cousin/Uncle Justin, Isabel reportedly sleeping in her brother's room (for protection/safety from her father?), the CPS involvement, the defensive statements by SC's sister at an inappropriate time, etc.

For about an hour I entertained the hoax theory, but that theory is mutually exclusive with SC being a drug dealer. No drug dealer is going to call LE to his home and risk the subsequent scrutiny (phone call records, e-mails, financial records, etc.) to perpetuate a hoax. It's one or the other, and I don't believe this is a hoax.

I also have not ruled out sexual abuse which culminated in some kind of incident resulting in her death, which then required manufacture of the "kidnapped" tale.

This whole thing stinks like a rotten fish and has from Day One. Something is not right here, and I have to conclude that the public has been fed a line of BS. My prediction is that LE will approach RC and she will agree to supply evidence against SC in order to take him down in exchange for her own complete or partial immunity. Only time will tell if I'm right about that one or not.

Of course, all of the above is just my opinion. Thanks for reading, and I look forward to interacting with you here!

EquineLuvr

Excellent post, I couldn't agree more!:goodpost:

And welcome to the forum EquineLuvr

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Thanks to moderator, Kimster, who has posted my "What happened to Isabel Celis?" poll on the Poll Board. If you've been following the case here at Websleuths, please vote. TIA

What happened to Isabel Celis? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Which of the following best describes your current position on what happened to 6-year-old Isabel Celis who went missing from her home in Tuscon, AZ on April 20?

Submitted by BetteDavisEyes

 

[tlcya]

:welcome5: Equine

 

[Shelby2]

May be worth noting when we refer to "the FBI" - don't think there is a huge team of folks from the FBI - usually it is one or 2 - their main aim is to be available for federal charges and also be able to provide resources to local departments with ease. Same as US Marshalls

Respectfully, the CART has been involved from the beginning, and like the Sierra Lamar case I think they are advising LE every step of the way. The Child Abduction Response Team always has between 4 and 6 agents involved, possibly more in this case.

 

[Shelby2]

Right, how many other kids live on that street or near this particular home?

I don't know, but Isabel only lived in one.

 

[time]

Hi y'all!! After reading through a couple of threads and enjoying your contributions, I thought it was time to chime in here.

I'm a latecomer to this case, even though I live in Tucson and am a veteran armchair sleuth. Classes at Pima start next Tue. :woohoo: , and getting enrolled, etc. has taken up much of my time the last few weeks.

Immediately I distrusted the "intruder through Isa's window" scenario. It seemed like amateurish staging, and TPD did say back on 04/22 that there was NO evidence of foced entry into the house (see KVOA's "complete coverage" page). Plus good ole fashioned horse sense says that the odds of someone snatching her from her bedroom under those conditions (high wall surrounding property, 3 dogs on site, in daylight, etc.) are pretty slim.

I am no fan of TPD, however I DO trust the technology, skills, competence, and professionalism of the FBI and the U.S. Marshals. Too many LE and former LE have stated off the record that Sergio has a major debt to one of the drug cartels, and frankly I believe it (where there's smoke, there's fire). Just because someone puts on a very public face does not mean that they are drug-free, honest, law-abiding, a good parent, or even sane. Many people "project" positive traits onto total strangers just because they have reproduced. I should know -- this is my childhood in a nutshell. I am the product of such parents, and everyone thought they were "pillars of the community" because they were highly functional. In reality, nothing could have been further from the truth.

I agree that we can't put aside some nefarious connections and that people are not always what they seem. There are just as many or more criminals who do not appear to fit our stereotype and some that fit t he stereotype that do not commit crimes. Having said that, I can't assume this is an absolute her until we know more.

BTW, just because SC can sing doesn't mean he's not abusing drugs. Smoking is only one form of administration. As for him not having the time, well if the man doesn't work (or only works PT) then that opens up a significant window of free time so keeping coaching, etc. committments is not such a big deal.

Agree about the drugs, but is there any evidence SC doesn't work full time?

In every interview of SC and RC that I have seen, they have exhibited signs of lying. (Several years ago I was fortunate to receive a tutorial from a retired FBI agent who specialized in body language.) That impression of mine has been buttressed by specialists hired by both local and national media. Then there was the telltale interview with local media where SC had his hands completely wrapped around RC's right arm, and he remained as still as a statue so as to prohibit any spontaneous gesticulations. It was glaringly obvious! IF they had passed their lie detector tests, they both would have been screaming it from the rooftops. But we have only silence and evasiveness ("we can't talk about that").

Agree about all this, it makes them look hinky.

RC has made some truly bizarre statements that just creeped me out. One was something like, "Well, we absolutely don't like being here doing this. But you know what? It doesn't matter... We are here doing it, whatever it takes to bring Isabel home." If it doesn't matter when why bring it up? When your child is missing the focus should be on her, not yourself. "Whatever it takes," right?

Not sure I agree on all this analysis or that this makes him look guilty ... I find just as much setting off red flags about RC and same on not knowing if it makes her look guilty, it does make her look hinky in my mind

It is very "interesting" to me that a nurse and a surgical assistant could afford to buy a $435,000 house.

It does seem pretty expensive in light of what we think they might be making and in having three kids to support - someone wrote more about all that earlier, but w ho knows where those posts are!

The house has 3802 sq. ft., even though eyeballing it it appears to have about 2400 sq. ft. Also, it has 1.5 stories, and since we don't have attics in Tucson I'm wondering about the "half" story. Is there a fortified underground bunker, and does that account for the missing square footage, the "half" story, and the high price of the house? If SC is a drug dealer that wouldn't be farfetched.

Do you know for sure this is 1.5 stories? If so, how?

The house has been on the brink of foreclosure a couple of times, so their financial picture hasn't been great. To me that is notable because "desperate times require desperate measures."

All could be of interest

Speaking of SC being a surg assist, why has his employer not been identified? Why haven't they come forward to show support like TMC did for RC? Why has nobody been able to find SC's state license?

Someone posted a while back that you do not need a state license to be a surgical assistant and IIRC that it may not take as much education/certification as a dental hygienist

There have been too many creepy things and red flags in this case to list in toto here, but they include: Cousin/Uncle Justin, Isabel reportedly sleeping in her brother's room (for protection/safety from her father?), the CPS involvement, the defensive statements by SC's sister at an inappropriate time, etc.

For about an hour I entertained the hoax theory, but that theory is mutually exclusive with SC being a drug dealer. No drug dealer is going to call LE to his home and risk the subsequent scrutiny (phone call records, e-mails, financial records, etc.) to perpetuate a hoax. It's one or the other, and I don't believe this is a hoax.

I also have not ruled out sexual abuse which culminated in some kind of incident resulting in her death, which then required manufacture of the "kidnapped" tale.

This whole thing stinks like a rotten fish and has from Day One. Something is not right here, and I have to conclude that the public has been fed a line of BS. My prediction is that LE will approach RC and she will agree to supply evidence against SC in order to take him down in exchange for her own complete or partial immunity. Only time will tell if I'm right about that one or not.

Of course, all of the above is just my opinion. Thanks for reading, and I look forward to interacting with you here!

EquineLuvr

Oh and WELCOME!

 

[makayla]

WELCOME EQUINELUVR! :seeya:

Great first post - love to hear more of your theories/ideas. I agree that there is something strange about this case and I can't help but think that it has more to do with the family than a stranger. JMO