AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #21

[johnQpublic]

Well everyone... I hate to go... Its been a long day. I can't beleave how much time I have exhausted following / researching this case. I have probably logged more hours than LE and the parents trying to decode and follow everything. I really hope Isa is found soon Alive or Not. I have not been this involved in a particular case in a long while. If it were not for me being lost as a child myself in Fort Huachuca, AZ I perhaps wouldn't be so concerned.

 

[twall]

Volunteers aiding Celis search work through holiday weekend

TUCSON, AZ (Tucson News Now) -
It's a weekend for relaxing and paying tribute to our fallen veterans, that is, unless you're a volunteer in the search for 6-year-old Isabel Celis.

Volunteers met at their new location at the Abbie Loveland Tuller school on 14th Street Sunday to make door hangers. They plan on using the materials in their next event to canvass neighborhoods and get the little girl's picture in the public eye.

http://www.tucsonnewsnow.com/story/...ing-celis-search-work-through-holiday-weekend

video at link, too

 

[Lava]

I've been doing my best to keep up on vacation. This is one of the biggest things that stands out to me. To know a RSO well enough that you don't think they are involved in your daughters disappearance suggests some sort of ongoing friendship. That with the CDs from the storage unit raise so many red flags for me. Anyone know if this RSO could be the neighbor that was upset and tried going into the Celis house in the beginning?

http://i49.tinypic.com/2hs9p41.jpg

 

[iSleuth]

Could someone explain what I'm doing wrong? When I open a docstoc document, I see a police form, then pages of blank... What do I need to do to see the text?

TIA!

I noticed this at first, I think the way the tab opens in the documents - the scroller is behind the WS scrolling tab. I found that between the left right- tab on the bottom- you can push the page to the left- and then you will see he cursor that scrolls the Police report pages - The actual report follows each police form document. :seeya:

BTW? Were new docs released? or we are referring to the Friday doc.dump?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ocean~

Why do you think that are keeping Dad away from the boys?
Why do you think the parents refuse to discuss the results of the polygraph test?
Something about good old Dad gives me the creeps....**shivers**!!

I honestly cant answer why Sergio has agreed to be away from his boys. We dont even know if he had not agreed that it would have even been made mandatory. It may have been suggested by CPS and he agreed that it was best.

That is the problem we tend to have in some cases where nothing is known and it leads to speculation trying to guess. I can only guess but imo, it has nothing to do with being abusive. I base this partly on the doc dumps. I expected to read that someone had seen Sergio be abusive or extremely controlling to someone including his children or spouse but there was nothing there supporting any allegation of being abusive to anyone ...much less his children or wife.

I really dont know why the parents refuse to discuss the polygraphs. Mark Lunsford never discussed his publicly at the time either. I have seen some parents reveal the results ...even ones that were told they had failed, and they turned out in the end to have nothing to do with their child's disappearance.

I cant speak for the individual parents but maybe they think discussing 'them' takes away from their child who is missing. In all honesty no parent has to convince the public of anything and as long as they took one and LE says they both continue to cooperate fully then that is enough for me. I am not one of those who expects parents to come out and prove their innocence to the media or public. Thats just me though.

I respect everyone's opinion concerning Sergio. I can only speak for myself. I dont find him hinky or creepy. He is a little different than some I have seen but I have to realize that not everyone acts the same. I did not see it as guilt.........just a different personality.

Although I dont think I have seen one parent of a missing child in recent years that met the great expectations the public seems to demand of them.

IMO

 

[Eileen730]

I honestly cant answer why Sergio has agreed to be away from his boys. We dont even know if he had not agreed that it would have even been made mandatory. It may have been suggested by CPS and he agreed that it was best.

That is the problem we tend to have in some cases where nothing is known and it leads to speculation trying to guess. I can only guess but imo, it has nothing to do with being abusive. I base this partly on the doc dumps. I expected to read that someone had seen Sergio be abusive or extremely controlling to someone including his children or spouse but there was nothing there supporting any allegation of being abusive to anyone ...much less his children or wife.

I really dont know why the parents refuse to discuss the polygraphs. Mark Lunsford never discussed his publicly at the time either. I have seen some parents reveal the results ...even ones that were told they had failed, and they turned out in the end to have nothing to do with their child's disappearance.

I cant speak for the individual parents but maybe they think discussing 'them' takes away from their child who is missing. In all honesty no parent has to convince the public of anything and as long as they took one and LE says they both continue to cooperate fully then that is enough for me. I am not one of those who expects parents to come out and prove their innocences to the media or public. Thats just me though.

I respect everyone's opinion concerning Sergio. I can only speak for myself. I dont find him hinky or creepy. He is a little different than some I have seen but I have to realize that not everyone acts the same. I did not see it as guilt.........just a different personality.

Although I dont think I have seen one parent of a missing child in recent years that met the great expectations the public seems to demand of them.

IMO

Well i cant see him agreeing unless he absoloutely HAD to!
JMO

And I think if your child is missing and you need the publics help you meet the publics demands.... Nothing worse than to be sent looking for a missing child when all along the parents already know they are dead...
So hard to tell the truth any more.

 

[Eileen730]

All the public wants is the TRUTH!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well i cant see him agreeing unless he absoloutely HAD to!
JMO

And I think if your child is missing and you need the publics help you meet the publics demands.... Nothing worse than to be sent looking for a missing child when all along the parents already know they are dead...
So hard to tell the truth any more.

But if we knew the reason and we do not... then it may become crystal clear why he agreed.

That is the thing none of us here knows the reason why.

I respectfully dont agree. People are continuing to work the volunteer command center to get her picture out there. No one has forgotten Isa. Her photo has been seen worldwide over and over again and at the last PC held they said they have received over a 1000 tips now.

A dead child needs to come home too and everyone with a heart knows that..especially a little child that has been kidnapped. There are countless parents with missing children who choose not to speak with the media.

There is no evidence whatsoever that I have seen that LE has confirmed Isa was dead before taken away. In fact since what appeared like blood in her room couldnt be enough blood loss where someone would have died. I think her kidnapper most likely held a knife to her throat and she may have been nicked by the knife point if it really was her blood from the night she was kidnapped from her home.

I may have missed that part of the docs because I have had an extremely busy weekend. Did they verify in the reports that the blood found in her room was Isa's and from that night? Because we raised 5 children who were all in sports and finding blood from an skinned knee or elbow was a common occurence when our children were growing up. They all were very active children and did not sit in front of a computer 24/7.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

All the public wants is the TRUTH!

That is why we have law enforcement/DAs and a judicial system instead of letting the public at large judge someone guilty or innocent. If they held the power then innocent family members would have been judged legally guilty before the real perp could even be arrested. Just like they have done in the past and were wrong.

The public isnt the ones that gathers the fact nor are they the triers of those facts.

 

[Azcrabcakes]

I noticed this at first, I think the way the tab opens in the documents - the scroller is behind the WS scrolling tab. I found that between the left right- tab on the bottom- you can push the page to the left- and then you will see he cursor that scrolls the Police report pages - The actual report follows each police form document. :seeya:

BTW? Were new docs released? or we are referring to the Friday doc.dump?

Thanks, iSleuth. These are not new... but each time I try, I get police forms and blanks. I can scroll up and down, but never tried to the left. I'll try! Thanks agai!

 

[Fluttershy]

I've checked the thread and couldn't see this posted, but this has real shades of Ayla Reynolds...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...celis-bedroom_n_1550314.html?ref=isabel-celis

Arizona police released documents revealing that the "apparent blood" was found in the missing girl's bedroom, and "dark red-brown stains" were found in a car outside the family's home, ABC News reported.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

I honestly cant answer why Sergio has agreed to be away from his boys. We dont even know if he had not agreed that it would have even been made mandatory. It may have been suggested by CPS and he agreed that it was best.

That is the problem we tend to have in some cases where nothing is known and it leads to speculation trying to guess. I can only guess but imo, it has nothing to do with being abusive. I base this partly on the doc dumps. I expected to read that someone had seen Sergio be abusive or extremely controlling to someone including his children or spouse but there was nothing there supporting any allegation of being abusive to anyone ...much less his children or wife.

I really dont know why the parents refuse to discuss the polygraphs. Mark Lunsford never discussed his publicly at the time either. I have seen some parents reveal the results ...even ones that were told they had failed, and they turned out in the end to have nothing to do with their child's disappearance.

I cant speak for the individual parents but maybe they think discussing 'them' takes away from their child who is missing. In all honesty no parent has to convince the public of anything and as long as they took one and LE says they both continue to cooperate fully then that is enough for me. I am not one of those who expects parents to come out and prove their innocence to the media or public. Thats just me though.

I respect everyone's opinion concerning Sergio. I can only speak for myself. I dont find him hinky or creepy. He is a little different than some I have seen but I have to realize that not everyone acts the same. I did not see it as guilt.........just a different personality.

Although I dont think I have seen one parent of a missing child in recent years that met the great expectations the public seems to demand of them.

IMO

Thanks so much OceanBlueEyes!! I also am a person who respects everyones opinion, and I believe there is much to be learned in forums like Websleuths!! -I really appreciate that you took the time to answer my post!!

I believe that it was JohnQPublic that said we should try to look outside the box, and while I believe that in most cases it is needed (and even in this case it is a wise choice)-personally I can't get past the 911 calls. I have been studying from an FBI expert the way they investigate 911 calls and can tell if a person is innocent or guilty from the words they choose to use. I am very bothered by SC's choice of words.

Believe me, I don't want to think that ANY Dad would harm his daughter. ..

JMO

 

[Dee10]

Well i cant see him agreeing unless he absoloutely HAD to!
JMO

And I think if your child is missing and you need the publics help you meet the publics demands.... Nothing worse than to be sent looking for a missing child when all along the parents already know they are dead...
So hard to tell the truth any more.

Great point, if your child is missing you would want anyone & everyone looking for your child. Although the volunteers are putting her picture on door hangers, I wish they were arranging actual searches (maybe I missed this); this baby still needs to be found (they all do). It sends a troubling message when you don't and rightly so IMO.

I am really seeing through these cases, if you lose your child, buck-up, clear yourself & help out in every which way you can. We had Ron & Misty driving by LE searching on the roadside ditches for Haleigh while they went to the airport for their honeymoon in NY. Lisa's parents not seeming to care or help in anyway (unless it was national media & sometimes not then) and want to 'move on' and of course Billy D, which I won't even go there. Because of the parent's attitude the volunteers started falling by the wayside.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

Great point, if your child is missing you would want anyone & everyone looking for your child. Although the volunteers are putting her picture on door hangers, I wish they were arranging actual searches (maybe I missed this); this baby still needs to be found (they all do). It sends a troubling message when you don't and rightly so IMO.

I am really seeing through these cases, if you loose your child, buck-up, clear yourself & help out in every which way you can. We had Ron & Misty driving by LE searching on the roadside ditches for Haleigh while they went to the airport for their honeymoon in NY. Lisa's parents not seeming to care or help in anyway (unless it was national media & sometimes not then) and want to 'move on' and of course Billy D, which I won't even go there. Because of the parent's attitude the volunteers started falling by the wayside.

Great post, Dee!! I totally agree!! I also have a problem with parents who don't fully cooperate when their children disappear. I can't believe that there isn't a law that says a parent has to cooperate if a child in their custody happens to vanish in the middle of the night.

Aliayah Lunsford has been missing eight months, and in eight months her so called parents have done NOTHING to aid in her search. But her Mom has found time to sell her food stamps, and take the Dad to buy bath salts. You know, the important things in life. :banghead: And been sentenced to eight months in the federal pen.....

What makes it even sadder, when a child is missing to get an organization like Tim Miller's or Mark Klaas to come help, they need a parent to invite them to search. So some of these children, like Aliayah who may have been found with the help of these organizations is still missing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thanks so much OceanBlueEyes!! I also am a person who respects everyones opinion, and I believe there is much to be learned in forums like Websleuths!! -I really appreciate that you took the time to answer my post!!

I believe that it was JohnQPublic that said we should try to look outside the box, and while I believe that in most cases it is needed (and even in this case it is a wise choice)-personally I can't get past the 911 calls. I have been studying from an FBI expert the way they investigate 911 calls and can tell if a person is innocent or guilty from the words they choose to use. I am very bothered by SC's choice of words.

Believe me, I don't want to think that ANY Dad would harm his daughter. ..

JMO

You are very welcome.

I understand fully that a lot of posters question Sergio's 911 call. It seems that the caller is always expected to act a certain way and rarely have I seen in recent years any of the family members who spoke out and was the 911 caller meet the expectations placed upon them by the public. In fact I cant remember one case where a child was missing that the parent or parents werent ripped to shreds in one way or the other and falsely accused of being involved. It even happened in the Sierra Lamar case concerning Marlene and Rick.

I have been a member here since Jan. 2004 and a member of a crime message pro-board since 1999. Unfortunately I have seen so many cases where children were kidnapped from their homes. The suspicions and allegations again Sergio is not a rarity. It has become the norm in every case in recent years where a child or children were kidnapped from their home. The majority will place blame on at least one parent or both.

However: I could list countless cases over the years where the parents who were accused had absolutely nothing to do with their child's kidnapping but I will refrain from taking up bandwith. The majority was just as sure of their guilt in those cases as they are with this one.

I have no contacts with anyone in the FBI but I have researched true crime for over three decades and I have learned a vast amount of knowledge during this time. There again, I can only speak for myself. I did not find Sergio's call strange. I have posted many times my view on 911 calls and if they are way over the top in the drama department my hinky meter goes through the roof. And here we have a man who was in plays for most of his life..so where is the acting and drama in order to decieve?

A perfect example of a fake 911 call is Guy Heinz Jr. out of Brunswick, Georgia who murdered his entire family or Susan 'crocodile tears' Smith when she told them a black man had kidnapped her two boys.

I also posted a link the other day where a mother found her own son in his bathroom with his head severed. She calmly calls 911 and tells the op his head is missing and she even laughs (not chuckles) so I am convinced that each person reacts differently during crisis and men tend to not be as emotional as female callers anyway, imo.

Anyone that has posted with me for years knows if I truly felt Sergio was guilty I would be on him like white on rice but I must see evidence pointing to guilt first in order for that opinion to change. As of now, I do not see any evidence that either parent is involved.

This is just my opinion.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Okay, I am still catching up, but I am confused about a couple of things that had no links to support them and hoped someone could clear them up as I can't find them in the PDFs.

What lady in Texas filed a false report against the RSO down the street from the Celises? Was she charged with a felony or sued for slander? I'm confused about those claims.

The drunk voicemail left by SC? I couldn't find that and also did not see ANYWHERE in the PDFs an official reason for removing SC from the boys, let alone the reason being a drunken voicemail.

I do still have 2 pages to catch up on, so forgive me if these have already been substantiated.

TIA!

 

[FrayedKnot]

Chill Mamamia, Was not arguing with you just gave you the facts that there are things called laws and until those laws that protect them go away what those folks who made false reports and accusation DID commit class 6 felonies PERIOD end of story... Don't like it either start a petition to appeal thier protective rights or find another country which meets your needs and move there. I did say IM NOT STANDING UP FOR THE RSO I'M MERELY STATING THE LAW.

This was one of the claims that I found no info supporting it. Can anyone help?

 

[mamamia54]

This was one of the claims that I found no info supporting it. Can anyone help?

I will search through the documents after I fully wake up lol. I will post answers to your questions when I find them. Good morning!!

 

[Patty G]

Today Show - May 28, 2012

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/47588458#47588458

 

[Eileen730]

That is why we have law enforcement/DAs and a judicial system instead of letting the public at large judge someone guilty or innocent. If they held the power then innocent family members would have been judged legally guilty before the real perp could even be arrested. Just like they have done in the past and were wrong.

The public isnt the ones that gathers the fact nor are they the triers of those facts.

If Parents would speak out and the public could hear and see what they have to say and if the stories dont constantly change as the days progress then the public wont have issues with parents of missing children!

but to many times their stories dont mesh or one says one thing and the other says something else its very hard to believe them.


I understand what your saying OBE but in most of these cases its seems like they are hiding things! Sadly you cant have a private life when your child goes missing.

I also think there is a very good reason he was told to stay away from his children!.... And its nothing good! JMO

Your right we dont know the reason and they have offered no answers!